When looking at our offseason trades and free agent signings, one thing comes to mind. Does Jeffrey Loria even care if his team makes the playoffs this year? Does he even want a winning record? This team still has no competent Centerfielder and our Bullpen is the same tangled mess. It drives me insane that Loria seems to still care only about getting a stadium. The whole "if you build it, they will come" mentality may have worked fine for Field of Dreams, but this isn't Iowa. Granted, this team needs new facilities and their own place to play ball, but what the fans need more is an owner who they can have faith in. It just pains me to see our team in the shape its in. We're only a couple of moves away from being a stellar ball club. However, those moves will never be made by Jeffrey Loria. At least not this season.

Just a few days ago Mike Berardino, someone who usually one would say is no lover of Marlins ownership wrote a piece on Darin Erstad and how Loria worked his butt off trying to get him to sign here. I suspect that wasn't the only time this off-season that kind of dialogue has taken place. So to suggest he doesn't care is at minimum unfair. It's hard to find a ballplayer and I'm not talking about players with the franchise now but former players and players on other team who have come in contact with Loria and not come away impressed with his baseball knowledge and love of the game.

 

If you want to say he's cheap, I won't fault you for having that opinion, but I do disagree he doesn't care.

 

The market has gotten away from the bottom 10-15 teams this season with salaries going to the moon. That's something that's out of his control.

 

 

Speaking of which you might find interesting recent pieces in Baltimore and Washington DC newspapers on Peter Angelos who is widely considered the worst owner in the game, having money pouring in year after year, a great stadium deal, rabid fans and nine consecutive years of losses to show for it, to a great extent blamed on his medling in trades and free agent signings. Juxtapose that against Loria working the phones to bring in a player and I think your position has little merit if your contention is he doesn't care.

wow good point. thanks for the info.

It's hard to find a ballplayer and I'm not talking about players with the franchise now but former players and players on other team who have come in contact with Loria and not come away impressed with his baseball knowledge and love of the game.

 

Just off the top of my head, Derrek Lee and Cliff Floyd jump to mind.

 

I believe the term they used was "toy." And they're not the only ones who feel this way. I have spoken to other people who basically share the stance that he is a baseball fan that treats the team (be it Montreal or Florida) as simply a plaything.

 

But, that's water under the bridge and basically all I have to say on this matter.

Speaking of which you might find interesting recents pieces in Baltimore and Washington DC newspapers on Peter Angelos who is widely considered the worst owner in the game, having money pouring in year after year, a great stadium deal, rabid fans and nine consecutive years of losses to show for it, to a great extent blamed on his medling in trades and free agent signings. Juxtapose that against Loria working the phones to bring in a player and I think your position has little merit if your contention is he doesn't care.

Well, every owner looks good when you compare them to Angelos.

 

Anyways, saying Loria doesn't care is foolish.

It's hard to find a ballplayer and I'm not talking about players with the franchise now but former players and players on other team who have come in contact with Loria and not come away impressed with his baseball knowledge and love of the game.

 

Just off the top of my head, Derrek Lee and Cliff Floyd jump to mind.

 

I believe the term they used was "toy." And they're not the only ones who feel this way. I have spoken to other people who basically share the stance that he is a baseball fan that treats the team (be it Montreal or Florida) as simply a plaything.

 

But, that's water under the bridge and basically all I have to say on this matter.

 

You know I was going to back to 2002 and specifically use Cliff Floyd's attempted $33 million extortion of the fledgling ownership as the exception that proves the rule. Poor bitter Cliffy, who dared the Marlins to trade him because he would make so much more money somewhere else as a free agent and then bad-mouthed them when they did, having to settle for a $1.00 increase of over what Loria and company were paying him in the year previous. The Cliff Floyd who with Charles Johnson rooted against the Marlins in 2003 wanting so desperately for them to lose (they watched in fact in Charles Johnson's livingroom hurling epithets at the tv screen as Beckett tagged out Posada). Now there's the kind of example to use. A liar, an extortionist and bad sport.

2003.....two strong posts. Well said. That's a great visual of Cliff and Charles. What's the source? Ahhh...who cares...it's a good post.

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Anybody interested in some Cliff Floyd bobble-heads?....new in box(not a soggy box. It was a great downpour of rain that night).

2003.....two strong posts. Well said. That's a great visual of Cliff and Charles. What's the source? Ahhh...who cares...it's a good post.

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Anybody interested in some Cliff Floyd bobble-heads?....new in box(not a soggy box. It was a great downpour of rain that night).

 

It was a written (newspaper or magazine I forget) interview with Charles Johnson.

 

People forget how Cliff and his agent made himself out to be indespensable and how all he wanted from the (then) new ownership was a new contract worth what he said he's be sure to get in the free agent market which his agent pegged at $11 million a year for three years. And if they didn't pay then all of South Florida would know what kind of people these new owners were, blah,blah, blah, and he'd go on QAM with the Orlando Alzegaries of the world and saying after games this was a AAA franchise without him. We of course know what happened in 2003 in his absense.

 

It was so much fun watching Cliff packing his bags and sent to Montreal with his gimpy *achilles tendons* and that crappy astroturf. Revenge truly is sweet. The next year he had trouble even finding bidders after Boston let him go and he ultimately wound up signing I think it was $6.500001 million with the Mets.

Man, I miss Cliff.

 

anyway Preston Wilson left on an ugly note too, didn't he?

Man, I miss Cliff.

 

anyway Preston Wilson left on an ugly note too, didn't he?

 

He and Johnson weren't too happy about being shipped out to Denver if memory serves.

It's hard to find a ballplayer and I'm not talking about players with the franchise now but former players and players on other team who have come in contact with Loria and not come away impressed with his baseball knowledge and love of the game.

 

Just off the top of my head, Derrek Lee and Cliff Floyd jump to mind.

 

I believe the term they used was "toy." And they're not the only ones who feel this way. I have spoken to other people who basically share the stance that he is a baseball fan that treats the team (be it Montreal or Florida) as simply a plaything.

 

But, that's water under the bridge and basically all I have to say on this matter.

 

You know I was going to back to 2002 and specifically use Cliff Floyd's attempted $33 million extortion of the fledgling ownership as the exception that proves the rule. Poor bitter Cliffy, who dared the Marlins to trade him because he would make so much more money somewhere else as a free agent and then bad-mouthed them when they did, having to settle for a $1.00 increase of over what Loria and company were payinghim in the year previous. The Cliff Floyd who with Charles Johnson rooted against the Marlins in 2003 wanting so desperately for them to lose (they watched in fact in Charles Johnson's livingroom hurling epithets at the tv screen as Beckett tagged out Posada). Now there's the kind of example to use. A liar, an extortionist and bad sport.

 

So nothing to say of Derrek Lee?

 

And 2003 doesn't change the fact that the Floyd move was a dicey move where Loria's plaything mentallity was exposed.

 

He demanded Pavano and Wayne in return because Pavano was the first player he signed to an extension in Montreal and Wayne was the first player given big bonus money.

 

Pavano turned in the season and a half of his life in late 2003 and 2004 and that was it, we forget how petty the Floyd trade was, as we left other offers on the table...since I just feel like putting that out there.

"Plaything mentality"...there is no depth low enough is there?

 

We all know why Lee was traded and it was the right decision at the time.

 

You call it petty because let's face it you hate ownership. I call it the first move toward a World championship. Jettisoning Floyd was absolutely and without question the single best thing the Marlins did after taking over the franchise. That and dumping Johnson and Wilson, getting Pierre and saving net $28 million in the process.

 

Floyd was a one man wrecking crew who used his "star" position to hold a gun to the head of the new owners and FO, setting himself above eveyone else. If they had folded and given him what he wanted, this team woyuld have been dead in the water for the next three years, only one year in three (2005) playing a full season. What I think soured Cliff more than anything else though was his fraud was exposed when he had to sign for what he was making with the Marlins the year before (the Marlins if I remember had offered him $ 8 million and he spit on that offer).

 

As for Pavano, seems to me that worked out fairly well for the Fish and Carl Pavano is the perfect example of a guy who has always spoken highly of JL. As has Joe Torre, Todd Jones, etc. You can find the handful of haters, and not surprisingly you almost seem to want associate yourself with the underachievers in Marlins history, the malcontents, the me-first guys, why I don't know.

I am not a Loria-apologist much less a Loria-lover but it is apparent he is a fan of the game. I certainly believe he has no buisness being a MLB owner under any circumstances. We got screwed when he imposed on us by the Evil Emperor (Selig). We got stuck with one of the cheapest ownership in the history of the game. He does hire sound baseball people who make sound decisions and lets them work their magic, be it on a bargain basement budget. If he could just sack Samson who is a woprthless piece of elephant manure and be obligated to open up the books and made to spend the league's money on the team instead of lining his pocket, he wouldn't be half bad

Evil Emperor (Selig).

 

Wait, I thought this was Steinbrenner? Gosh, I can't seem to keep my vitriole filled, hyperbolic Star Wars references straight anymore.

 

Is Cliff Floyd Lando Calrissian? Because he'd be so much cooler in my eyes if he were.

I believe the term they used was "toy." And they're not the only ones who feel this way. I have spoken to other people who basically share the stance that he is a baseball fan that treats the team (be it Montreal or Florida) as simply a plaything.

Isn't that both the reality of owners and the ideal of fans? The only difference is that in reality all owners use their teams to advance their own interests. While fans wish they'd act as a philantrophy. The ones lost in the shuffle are going to be the ones who typically talk to the press, such as former players, former coaches and media writers who want power over the situation but serve in roles of servitude to these two masters.

It's hard to find a ballplayer and I'm not talking about players with the franchise now but former players and players on other team who have come in contact with Loria and not come away impressed with his baseball knowledge and love of the game.

 

Just off the top of my head, Derrek Lee and Cliff Floyd jump to mind.

 

I believe the term they used was "toy." And they're not the only ones who feel this way. I have spoken to other people who basically share the stance that he is a baseball fan that treats the team (be it Montreal or Florida) as simply a plaything.

 

But, that's water under the bridge and basically all I have to say on this matter.

 

You know I was going to back to 2002 and specifically use Cliff Floyd's attempted $33 million extortion of the fledgling ownership as the exception that proves the rule. Poor bitter Cliffy, who dared the Marlins to trade him because he would make so much more money somewhere else as a free agent and then bad-mouthed them when they did, having to settle for a $1.00 increase of over what Loria and company were payinghim in the year previous. The Cliff Floyd who with Charles Johnson rooted against the Marlins in 2003 wanting so desperately for them to lose (they watched in fact in Charles Johnson's livingroom hurling epithets at the tv screen as Beckett tagged out Posada). Now there's the kind of example to use. A liar, an extortionist and bad sport.

 

 

 

 

I would be very suprised if Floyd and CJ actually sat around and actively rooted AGAINST their former teamates.

 

 

A bit suspicious Marlins2003.

 

Im not saying Floyd was not bitter with the FO. But that is quite an unlikely canvass you paint there.

I believe it.

 

CJ And Floyd, who were supposed to be veteran leaders on a young team, became disruptive malcontents over money (Floyd) and playing time (CJ). Both were extremely bitter after getting traded in what turned out to be great trades.

I believe it.

 

CJ And Floyd, who were supposed to be veteran leaders on a young team, became disruptive malcontents over money (Floyd) and playing time (CJ). Both were extremely bitter after getting traded in what turned out to be great trades.

 

I apparently read the same article that 2003 did. Although a little surprised at CJ, the Floyd comments sounded right on. The guy is definetly a me first type player. Watch him on TV. He falls and lays there until he is sure the cameras have gotten enough footage of his newest "injury" and then pops back up and plays. One of the few players I actually will heckle. Normally we stand up, applaud loudly, and holler out congratulations for running all the way out to the OF without getting hurt.

 

"Plaything mentality"...there is no depth low enough is there?

 

We all know why Lee was traded and it was the right decision at the time.

 

You call it petty because let's face it you hate ownership. I call it the first move toward a World championship. Jettisoning Floyd was absolutely and without question the single best thing the Marlins did after taking over the franchise. That and dumping Johnson and Wilson, getting Pierre and saving net $28 million in the process.

 

Floyd was a one man wrecking crew who used his "star" position to hold a gun to the head of the new owners and FO, setting himself above eveyone else. If they had folded and given him what he wanted, this team woyuld have been dead in the water for the next three years, only one year in three (2005) playing a full season. What I think soured Cliff more than anything else though was his fraud was exposed when he had to sign for what he was making with the Marlins the year before (the Marlins if I remember had offered him $ 8 million and he spit on that offer).

 

As for Pavano, seems to me that worked out fairly well for the Fish and Carl Pavano is the perfect example of a guy who has always spoken highly of JL. As has Joe Torre, Todd Jones, etc. You can find the handful of haters, and not surprisingly you almost seem to want associate yourself with the underachievers in Marlins history, the malcontents, the me-first guys, why I don't know.

 

I have always found it funny how fans can have such selective memories at times. If we had kept Lee and traded Mikey and Castillo instead, how would fans then feel? That was the option at that time and the Marlins made the correct move. We all knew Lee would excel in that ball park, more so than he ever did here with his bat.

Well I'll take Marlins2003/Bronco's word for it.

 

 

But Im still suprised.

 

 

I am a BIG fan of Floyd. I had the opportunity to speak to him twice and he is very friendly and willing to go the extra mile for the hardcore baseball fan.

 

I still wish he was a Marlin.

Well I'll take Marlins2003/Bronco's word for it.

 

 

But Im still suprised.

 

 

I am a BIG fan of Floyd. I had the opportunity to speak to him twice and he is very friendly and willing to go the extra mile for the hardcore baseball fan.

 

I still wish he was a Marlin.

I'm with ya Don

Well I'll take Marlins2003/Bronco's word for it.

 

 

But Im still suprised.

 

 

I am a BIG fan of Floyd. I had the opportunity to speak to him twice and he is very friendly and willing to go the extra mile for the hardcore baseball fan.

 

I still wish he was a Marlin.

I'm with ya Don

 

Thirded.

Had Loria / Beinfest given in to Floyd and to pressure from fans and the local media and signed him to the ridiculously inflated $33 million deal he was looking for (which supposedly included a hometown discount!) then there's absolutely no way the we win the '03 WS.

 

What would you take... the '03 WS or a malcontent liar who likes to play GM?

 

I'll take the '03 WS.

Had Loria / Beinfest given in to Floyd and to pressure from fans and the local media and signed him to the ridiculously inflated $33 million deal he was looking for (which supposedly included a hometown discount!) then there's absolutely no way the we win the '03 WS.

 

What would you take... the '03 WS or a malcontent liar who likes to play GM?

 

I'll take the '03 WS.

 

 

"Malcontent liar" is just a bit harsh don't you think? Did Cliff not sign a ball for your kid or something after a tough loss?

 

You are painting an EXTREMELY rosy picture of Loria here. I'm really trying not to turn this into a Loria bash thread this is not sitting well with me.

 

 

I don't know the real story. But if I was a betting man (and I just so happen to be one), I would venture to say that you don't know the real story either.

always a little truth to both sides.

"Malcontent liar" is just a bit harsh don't you think?

It may be harsh but it's fair.

 

In his contract demands he said he was giving a "hometown discount" and that's a lie. That makes him a liar in my book. He wanted over $10 million a year and that's A LOT higher than what his market value was. He ended up getting $6.5 million from the Mets. Usually when a player pulls the "hometown discount" card the player is full of crap and Clifford is a prime example that.

 

He spent the '02 season complainign about money and critiquing management. That makes him a malcontent in my book.