ANKARA, Turkey (AP) - June 6, 2007 - - Several thousand Turkish troops crossed into northern Iraq early Wednesday to chase Kurdish guerrillas who operate from bases there, Turkish security officials told The Associated Press.

 

Two senior security officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media, said the raid was limited in scope and that it did not constitute the kind of large incursion that Turkish leaders have been discussing in recent weeks.

 

"It is not a major offensive and the number of troops is not in the tens of thousands," one of the officials told the AP by telephone. The official is based in southeast Turkey, where the military has been battling separatist Kurdish rebels since they took up arms in 1984.

 

The officials did not say where the Turkish force was operating in northern Iraq, nor did he say how long they would be there.

 

The officials said any confrontation with Iraqi Kurdish groups, who have warned against a Turkish incursion, could trigger a larger cross-border operation. The Turkish military has asked the government in Ankara to approve such an incursion, but the government has not given formal approval.

 

An official at military headquarters in Ankara declined to confirm or deny the report that Turkish troops had entered Iraq.

 

Turkish troops have occasionally launched brief raids in pursuit of guerrillas in northern Iraq, and have sometimes shelled suspected rebel positions across the border. Turkish authorities rarely acknowledge such military operations, which were more frequent before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.

 

Turkey has been building up its military forces on the Iraqi border in recent weeks, amid debate among political and military leaders about whether to attack separatist rebels of the PKK, or Kurdistan Workers' Party. The rebels stage raids in southeast Turkey after crossing over from hideouts in Iraq.

 

U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates previously cautioned the Turks from crossing into Iraq.

 

Gates said last week that he sympathized with the Turks' concern about cross-border raids by Kurdish rebels.

 

"The Turks have a genuine concern with Kurdish terrorism that takes place on Turkish soil," he said. "So one can understand their frustration and unhappiness over this. Several hundred Turks lose their lives each year, and we have been working with the Turks to try to help them get control of this problem on Turkish soil."

 

During major incursions in the 1990s, fighting occurred on a front stretching more than 100 miles, mostly in rugged terrain where communications were difficult and the Turkish Kurds were already entrenched in the mountains.

 

(Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

 

 

Well things just got a little more difficult.

that's all Iraq needs, the Turks & Kurds to get nuts.

 

Eek.

bush, if you care to do one intelligent thing in your whole 8 years of office, take us out of this god foresaken war already you f*&329052ing idiot

Nothing new the Turks and Kurds have been going at it for a long time.

ANKARA, Turkey (AP) - June 6, 2007 - - Several thousand Turkish troops crossed into northern Iraq early Wednesday to chase Kurdish guerrillas who operate from bases there, Turkish security officials told The Associated Press.

 

Two senior security officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media, said the raid was limited in scope and that it did not constitute the kind of large incursion that Turkish leaders have been discussing in recent weeks.

 

"It is not a major offensive and the number of troops is not in the tens of thousands," one of the officials told the AP by telephone. The official is based in southeast Turkey, where the military has been battling separatist Kurdish rebels since they took up arms in 1984.

 

The officials did not say where the Turkish force was operating in northern Iraq, nor did he say how long they would be there.

 

The officials said any confrontation with Iraqi Kurdish groups, who have warned against a Turkish incursion, could trigger a larger cross-border operation. The Turkish military has asked the government in Ankara to approve such an incursion, but the government has not given formal approval.

 

An official at military headquarters in Ankara declined to confirm or deny the report that Turkish troops had entered Iraq.

 

Turkish troops have occasionally launched brief raids in pursuit of guerrillas in northern Iraq, and have sometimes shelled suspected rebel positions across the border. Turkish authorities rarely acknowledge such military operations, which were more frequent before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.

Turkey has been building up its military forces on the Iraqi border in recent weeks, amid debate among political and military leaders about whether to attack separatist rebels of the PKK, or Kurdistan Workers' Party. The rebels stage raids in southeast Turkey after crossing over from hideouts in Iraq.

 

U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates previously cautioned the Turks from crossing into Iraq.

 

Gates said last week that he sympathized with the Turks' concern about cross-border raids by Kurdish rebels.

 

"The Turks have a genuine concern with Kurdish terrorism that takes place on Turkish soil," he said. "So one can understand their frustration and unhappiness over this. Several hundred Turks lose their lives each year, and we have been working with the Turks to try to help them get control of this problem on Turkish soil."

 

During major incursions in the 1990s, fighting occurred on a front stretching more than 100 miles, mostly in rugged terrain where communications were difficult and the Turkish Kurds were already entrenched in the mountains.

 

(Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

 

 

Well things just got a little more difficult.

 

yawn

It is not a full scale attack but there has been a lot of increased bombings in turkey from the kurdish terrorists so they are trying to run simple manuvers to affect that.

 

It is not like they are placing a large percent of their military into the area and occupying it or anything.

It is not a full scale attack but there has been a lot of increased bombings in turkey from the kurdish terrorists so they are trying to run simple manuvers to affect that.

 

It is not like they are placing a large percent of their military into the area and occupying it or anything.

 

Right, and either way the Kurds in the north have been pretty autonomous even under Hussein. (which is why he gassed them to put them in line). So this has extrelemy low relation to anything the U.S. is doing or the war in the Iraq in general.

I've said this in other threads and I'll say it again.

 

When we leave (which we will, whether it's in 2008 or 2009), the following will happen:

 

1) Blood bath civil war between the Shiites and the Sunnis.

2) The Kurds will declare independence.

3) Turkey will invade Northern Iraq to control the Kurds and keep them from becoming independent.

4) The Iranians will intervene to protect the Shiite.

5) Saudia Arabia and perhaps other Arab states will intervene to protect the Sunnis.

 

In other words: all hell will break loose. Let's just hope this regional war doesn't spread and become a WWIII.

 

Unfortunately, I am not sure there is anything we can do to resolve this situation to prevent that. This is nation building and creating at an early stage - the kind of stuff you saw in Europe from 1100-1700. It's got to happen one way or the other.

 

If you are a student of history you understand that national identity and the nation-state are created through war. And it's just as true in 2007 as it was in 1600.

I think the most interesting thing will be how this will affect the EU and Turkey's continuing drive to enter it. If this merely will give France more reason to yell, whine and try to keep them out.

I think the most interesting thing will be how this will affect the EU and Turkey's continuing drive to enter it. If this merely will give France more reason to yell, whine and try to keep them out.

Turkey pretty much pissed away any chance of being accepted into the EU with this move. The possibility of Kurdish conflict remained one of the primary concerns of the Commission and Parliament.

I think the most interesting thing will be how this will affect the EU and Turkey's continuing drive to enter it. If this merely will give France more reason to yell, whine and try to keep them out.

Turkey pretty much pissed away any chance of being accepted into the EU with this move. The possibility of Kurdish conflict remained one of the primary concerns of the Commission and Parliament.

It was a major issue, but the biggest I think was the issue with Greece over the islands and of course France being a jackass.

 

Still yeah I am sure it just upset things. But, they have done this almost every other year going back 10 years now. Saddam used to let them do this to keep the possibility of conflict of states out of it from the kurdish terrorists. It is just an exercise not a military invasion.

 

Still I cant wait to see how France spins this into America's evil allies the turks blah blah blah. Stupid french (no offense to french people on this board you all are kewl)

I think the most interesting thing will be how this will affect the EU and Turkey's continuing drive to enter it. If this merely will give France more reason to yell, whine and try to keep them out.

Turkey pretty much pissed away any chance of being accepted into the EU with this move. The possibility of Kurdish conflict remained one of the primary concerns of the Commission and Parliament.

It was a major issue, but the biggest I think was the issue with Greece over the islands and of course France being a jackass.

 

Still yeah I am sure it just upset things. But, they have done this almost every other year going back 10 years now. Saddam used to let them do this to keep the possibility of conflict of states out of it from the kurdish terrorists. It is just an exercise not a military invasion.

 

Still I cant wait to see how France spins this into America's evil allies the turks blah blah blah. Stupid french (no offense to french people on this board you all are kewl)

Considering the context of this current situation, the EU will be very upset with Turkey for potentially making a bad situation worse.

 

It is not a full scale attack but there has been a lot of increased bombings in turkey from the kurdish terrorists so they are trying to run simple manuvers to affect that.

 

It is not like they are placing a large percent of their military into the area and occupying it or anything.

 

Right, and either way the Kurds in the north have been pretty autonomous even under Hussein. (which is why he gassed them to put them in line). So this has extrelemy low relation to anything the U.S. is doing or the war in the Iraq in general.

As of now it has little to no effect, but you can't ignore the potentiality of increased conflict, which will change the precarious balance of US vs Insurgent forces. If Turkey increases forces, the odds of their conflict staying within the northern region are highly unlikely. As fighting spreads southward, any sense of security that we've established becomes jeopardized and Iraqis become edgy, leading to further destabilization.

 

Turkey is in a very politically uncertain place. They've tried very hard to put on a good show for their diplomatic counterparts, but the more they get denied what they want -- inclusion into Europe -- the less likely they'll continue to pacify the demands of other countries. Which is more in their national interest? Inclusion in the EU and the benefits associated with it or protecting their borders and citizens from hostile forces? That question will define how much this situation blows up.

I think the most interesting thing will be how this will affect the EU and Turkey's continuing drive to enter it. If this merely will give France more reason to yell, whine and try to keep them out.

Turkey pretty much pissed away any chance of being accepted into the EU with this move. The possibility of Kurdish conflict remained one of the primary concerns of the Commission and Parliament.

It was a major issue, but the biggest I think was the issue with Greece over the islands and of course France being a jackass.

 

Still yeah I am sure it just upset things. But, they have done this almost every other year going back 10 years now. Saddam used to let them do this to keep the possibility of conflict of states out of it from the kurdish terrorists. It is just an exercise not a military invasion.

 

Still I cant wait to see how France spins this into America's evil allies the turks blah blah blah. Stupid french (no offense to french people on this board you all are kewl)

Considering the context of this current situation, the EU will be very upset with Turkey for potentially making a bad situation worse.

 

It is not a full scale attack but there has been a lot of increased bombings in turkey from the kurdish terrorists so they are trying to run simple manuvers to affect that.

 

It is not like they are placing a large percent of their military into the area and occupying it or anything.

 

Right, and either way the Kurds in the north have been pretty autonomous even under Hussein. (which is why he gassed them to put them in line). So this has extrelemy low relation to anything the U.S. is doing or the war in the Iraq in general.

As of now it has little to no effect, but you can't ignore the potentiality of increased conflict, which will change the precarious balance of US vs Insurgent forces. If Turkey increases forces, the odds of their conflict staying within the northern region are highly unlikely. As fighting spreads southward, any sense of security that we've established becomes jeopardized and Iraqis become edgy, leading to further destabilization.

 

Turkey is in a very politically uncertain place. They've tried very hard to put on a good show for their diplomatic counterparts, but the more they get denied what they want -- inclusion into Europe -- the less likely they'll continue to pacify the demands of other countries. Which is more in their national interest? Inclusion in the EU and the benefits associated with it or protecting their borders and citizens from hostile forces? That question will define how much this situation blows up.

 

 

completely agree with everything you said above in every respect. This could be the shot that sets it all off. But, hopefully it will end up being the manuvers they have been doing for the past decade to two and nothing more. For the choice between the EU and the populace it seems the populace for now has won out. Their military is very interesting for their history since 1923.

The continued Turkish denail of the Armenian genocide is also an issue with the EU

I wouldn't be surprised if Turkish denial of Kurdish cultural/linguistic rights is also a sticking point. Then again, since the Kurds are the "Jews of the Muslim world", maybe not so much.

Turkish planes bomb northern Iraq

Large numbers of Turkish fighter jets have bombed suspected Kurdish rebel bases in northern Iraq, reports say.

 

Turkish officials said the warplanes had targeted the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK), in areas near the border.

 

But officials in northern Iraq said the planes had struck several villages. There were reports that one woman was killed, although this was unconfirmed.

 

Turkey's deputy prime minister said more strikes against "terrorists" were possible in the coming weeks.

 

"We, as the government, are resolute to remove this trouble from the agenda of our country," Cemil Cicek told the state-run Anatolia news agency.

 

Mr Cicek also called on Kurdish militants to lay down their arms and return to their homes, insisting their fight was futile.

 

Turkey has regularly targeted the PKK inside Iraq in recent months, but this is thought to be the first fighter jet raid outside its own territory.

 

Previous strikes had used artillery or helicopters.

 

'Comprehensive campaign'

 

The Turkish planes struck several targets in different areas of northern Iraq, according to reports. Private Turkish TV reports spoke of "large numbers" planes involved, with numbers ranging from 20 to 50.

 

The planes hit the regions of Zap, Hakurk and Avasin as well as areas in the Kandil mountains, the military said.

 

After the night-time strikes ended, artillery barrages continued across the border from the border town of Cukurca in Turkish territory, reports said.

 

One of the sorties hit an area near the Kandil mountains, a region further away from the border into Iraqi territory, and regularly cited by Turkey as a centre of PKK activity.

 

Turkey's military said a "comprehensive air campaign" had been carried out at 0100 on Sunday (2300 GMT on Saturday).

 

"The operations solely target the... terrorist movement. They are not conducted against people living in northern Iraq or local groups not engaged in enemy activity," the military said in a statement.

 

But local officials in northern Iraq spoke of families fleeing their homes.

 

A spokesman for Iraqi Kurdish forces said troops were being sent to the Kandil area to check for damage and possible casualties, the AFP news agency reported.

 

Bitter dispute

 

Ankara toughened its line against the PKK after a spate of rebel attacks inside Turkey that prompted widespread calls for action.

 

In October, Turkey's parliament voted to allow the military to launch operations into Iraq to combat the PKK, which had stepped up attacks in Turkey.

 

Ankara has massed up to 100,000 troops near the mountainous border with northern Iraq, backed by tanks, artillery and warplanes.

 

But Iraq and the US have urged Turkey not to carry out its threat.

 

As many as 3,000 PKK members are believed to be based inside northern Iraq. Turkey has accused the local Kurdish authorities of supporting them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7146567.stm

bush, if you care to do one intelligent thing in your whole 8 years of office, take us out of this god foresaken war already you f*&329052ing idiot

Kucinich, Gravel, anmd Paul are the only people running for President that volw to do this. So if you mean your words, you better be voting for one of them.

bush, if you care to do one intelligent thing in your whole 8 years of office, take us out of this god foresaken war already you f*&329052ing idiot

Kucinich, Gravel, anmd Paul are the only people running for President that volw to do this. So if you mean your words, you better be voting for one of them.

im not sure who to vote for...doesnt really matter anyways...same ol washington sh*t storm no matter who is pres.

bush, if you care to do one intelligent thing in your whole 8 years of office, take us out of this god foresaken war already you f*&329052ing idiot

Kucinich, Gravel, anmd Paul are the only people running for President that volw to do this. So if you mean your words, you better be voting for one of them.

im not sure who to vote for...doesnt really matter anyways...same ol washington sh*t storm no matter who is pres.

Those are the true anti-war votes (being that they are the only ones consistent on the matter.)

 

 

So if you are registered Democrat, vote Kucinich or Gravel in the primary. If you are a registered Republican, then Ron Paul is the only anti-war candidate.

 

 

The war is the number 1 iussue for me. I don't care if it is a D or R, as long as someone anti-war gets the vote.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7146567.stm

The only reason they are doing this is because the House Dems broached the idea of a resolution recognizing the Armenian Genocide. Even though they eventually took the idea off the table. Turkey had been holding off in deference to the U.S. before that.

 

I think it's stupid that Turkey is so pissy about the Armenian Genocide (it was done by the Ottoman Empire a full seven years before they were overthrown by Ataturk; they couldn't say it was the Ottomans and leave it at that?), but oh well...

After reading this, it kinda made sense. Throughout the duration of WWI, the Ottoman Empire was governed by the Young Turks. Probably the only difference between the Young Turks and the Ataturk supporters was that the Young Turks defended the Sultan, if only as a figurehead. Thus, the current Republic of Turkey sees itself strongly tied to the Young Turks, under whose auspices the Armenian genocide occurred. Admitting the wrongs of the Young Turks would, in short, be admitting that the Ataturk-influenced Republic of Turkey was responsible as well.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Turks