We would not be in the position where both Miguel Cabrera and Dontelle Willis have to be moved if the Marlins just signed them long term a couple of seasons ago! The whole thought of them having players play for performance will cost them big time if the player performs up to his capabilities the way that Willis and Cabrera have. I think it's downright pathetic that the Marlins will likely trade both of these guys before they're elgible for arbitration. Even the Devil Rays get it as they have Carl Crawford and Rocco Baldelli signed for pennies on the dollar. They won't need to trade either of those guys unless they want to. The Marlins front office better sign Hanley Ramirez to a nice contract to buy out his arbitration or he will get traded in 2 years too. :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead

We would not be in the position where both Miguel Cabrera and Dontelle Willis have to be moved if the Marlins just signed them long term a couple of seasons ago! The whole thought of them having players play for performance will cost them big time if the player performs up to his capabilities the way that Willis and Cabrera have. I think it's downright pathetic that the Marlins will likely trade both of these guys before they're elgible for arbitration. Even the Devil Rays get it as they have Carl Crawford and Rocco Baldelli signed for pennies on the dollar. They won't need to trade either of those guys unless they want to. The Marlins front office better sign Hanley Ramirez to a nice contract to buy out his arbitration or he will get traded in 2 years too. :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead

Instead of banghead, your answer lies in the picture of little birdies representing ownership squealing out "cheap cheap cheap"

6 words -

 

 

Mike Lowell Preston Wilson Charles Johnson

 

 

All were thought to be franchise guys when they got their mega-deals, and all underperformed.

6 words -

 

 

Mike Lowell Preston Wilson Charles Johnson

 

 

All were thought to be franchise guys when they got their mega-deals, and all underperformed.

 

Here's ten more words:

 

Miguel Cabrera and Hanley are not like any of them.

 

Or, a different 10:

 

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Mike Lowell was the only one of those players given a long term contract by the Marlins current ownership. They should have given that money to Derek Lee instead.

Mike Lowell was the only one of those players given a long term contract by the Marlins current ownership. They should have given that money to Derek Lee instead.

Too bad most of the people in this forum wanted Lee out of here A.S.A.P , calling him Mr. Anti-Clutch and what not. Look what he's doing now, i'm glad he's succeeded in Chicago .

Mike Lowell was the only one of those players given a long term contract by the Marlins current ownership. They should have given that money to Derek Lee instead.

Too bad most of the people in this forum wanted Lee out of here A.S.A.P , calling him Mr. Anti-Clutch and what not. Look what he's doing now, i'm glad he's succeeded in Chicago .

 

He still was the anti-clutch, but I think it was 50/50 on who wanted Lowell and Cabrera in the outfield, or Lee and Cabrera on the infield.

Lee saved the Marlins infielders a lot of errors with that glove of his....including Lowell.

I wanted Pudge. Look at the years he is having after signing with Detroit. Signing Lowell with a capable 3B in Miguel Cabrera was not good

I wanted Pudge. Look at the years he is having after signing with Detroit. Signing Lowell with a capable 3B in Miguel Cabrera was not good

 

Since it's a fantasy day, Pudge is a free agent after the season.

The Lowell contract wasn't that big of a deal.

 

Now, not buying out the arbitration of Beckett, Willis, Cabrera, and soon to be Hanley and Uggla. Very very bad ideas.

The Lowell contract wasn't that big of a deal.

 

Now, not buying out the arbitration of Beckett, Willis, Cabrera, and soon to be Hanley and Uggla. Very very bad ideas.

:thumbup

Just need new ownership. Loria probably couldnt afford to give those deals out even with a new stadium.

 

And it is sad.

Just need new ownership. Loria probably couldnt afford to give those deals out even with a new stadium.

 

And it is sad.

That's BS. Post 2004, Cabrera would have been around a 5/$25 buyout deal through 2009.

 

2005-2007 the Marlins have paid Cabrera approx $8. And it's going to be $11-12 next year. Once year 6 figures come in, right there, you've saved yourself $10 million bucks over 3 seasons when he is going to make $15 million a year. This practice SAVES money. And it astronomically helps your ballclub by getting your player for cheaper. It's absolutely stupid, and one of the main reasons why Beinfest is not one of the premier GM's in baseball. You cannot pawn this issue off onto Loria, as we can with free agency, when it saves money.

Just need new ownership. Loria probably couldnt afford to give those deals out even with a new stadium.

 

And it is sad.

That's BS. Post 2004, Cabrera would have been around a 5/$25 buyout deal through 2009.

 

2005-2007 the Marlins have paid Cabrera approx $8. And it's going to be $11-12 next year. Once year 6 figures come in, right there, you've saved yourself $10 million bucks over 3 seasons when he is going to make $15 million a year. This practice SAVES money. And it astronomically helps your ballclub by getting your player for cheaper. It's absolutely stupid, and one of the main reasons why Beinfest is not one of the premier GM's in baseball. You cannot pawn this issue off onto Loria, as we can with free agency, when it saves money.

 

You absolutely cannot blame this on Beinfest.

We would not be in the position where both Miguel Cabrera and Dontelle Willis have to be moved if the Marlins just signed them long term a couple of seasons ago! The whole thought of them having players play for performance will cost them big time if the player performs up to his capabilities the way that Willis and Cabrera have. I think it's downright pathetic that the Marlins will likely trade both of these guys before they're elgible for arbitration. Even the Devil Rays get it as they have Carl Crawford and Rocco Baldelli signed for pennies on the dollar. They won't need to trade either of those guys unless they want to. The Marlins front office better sign Hanley Ramirez to a nice contract to buy out his arbitration or he will get traded in 2 years too. :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead

Instead of banghead, your answer lies in the picture of little birdies representing ownership squealing out "cheap cheap cheap"

 

For some reason, when I read this I remembered Chris Rock's HBO special where he was talking about Lil Jon and his "skeet skeet skeet" song.

Just need new ownership. Loria probably couldnt afford to give those deals out even with a new stadium.

 

And it is sad.

That's BS. Post 2004, Cabrera would have been around a 5/$25 buyout deal through 2009.

 

2005-2007 the Marlins have paid Cabrera approx $8. And it's going to be $11-12 next year. Once year 6 figures come in, right there, you've saved yourself $10 million bucks over 3 seasons when he is going to make $15 million a year. This practice SAVES money. And it astronomically helps your ballclub by getting your player for cheaper. It's absolutely stupid, and one of the main reasons why Beinfest is not one of the premier GM's in baseball. You cannot pawn this issue off onto Loria, as we can with free agency, when it saves money.

 

You absolutely cannot blame this on Beinfest.

 

I think both Loria and Beinfest are to blame. Beinfest can only spend what Loria allows him to.

Just need new ownership. Loria probably couldnt afford to give those deals out even with a new stadium.

 

And it is sad.

That's BS. Post 2004, Cabrera would have been around a 5/$25 buyout deal through 2009.

 

2005-2007 the Marlins have paid Cabrera approx $8. And it's going to be $11-12 next year. Once year 6 figures come in, right there, you've saved yourself $10 million bucks over 3 seasons when he is going to make $15 million a year. This practice SAVES money. And it astronomically helps your ballclub by getting your player for cheaper. It's absolutely stupid, and one of the main reasons why Beinfest is not one of the premier GM's in baseball. You cannot pawn this issue off onto Loria, as we can with free agency, when it saves money.

 

You absolutely cannot blame this on Beinfest.

 

I think both Loria and Beinfest are to blame. Beinfest can only spend what Loria allows him to.

 

Which is exactly why you cannot blame Beinfest. Loria's won't let him spend more.

Lee saved the Marlins infielders a lot of errors with that glove of his....including Lowell.

I guess MLB missed that when Lowell won a GG without Lee here.

I would put the blame on Loria and Selig and not Loria and Beinfest.

 

Loria doesnt have the resources to own a MLB team. Selig knew this and still chose to award him another franchise with $$ issues.

 

Loria can own all the minor league teams he wants, he has no business owning an MLB franchise.

You guys totally missed the point. You can't blame this one on Loria as it is a philosophy of Admin Beinfest and as Lou pointed out, it is costing the Marlins money. Admin believes that players should be paid year by year when we can,especially when it is at the league minimum and is afraid to buy out young players non arb. years because of injury risks,bust potential...etc.

 

If Beinfest presented it the way Lou did to Loria, I am sure he would listen.

You guys totally missed the point. You can't blame this one on Loria as it is a philosophy of Admin Beinfest and as Lou pointed out, it is costing the Marlins money. Admin believes that players should be paid year by year when we can,especially when it is at the league minimum and is afraid to buy out young players non arb. years because of injury risks,bust potential...etc.

 

If Beinfest presented it the way Lou did to Loria, I am sure he would listen.

how dare you say something bad about the GM of the Marlins!!!!!

 

all haily Beinfest!!!!!!111111

Just need new ownership. Loria probably couldnt afford to give those deals out even with a new stadium.

 

And it is sad.

That's BS. Post 2004, Cabrera would have been around a 5/$25 buyout deal through 2009.

 

2005-2007 the Marlins have paid Cabrera approx $8. And it's going to be $11-12 next year. Once year 6 figures come in, right there, you've saved yourself $10 million bucks over 3 seasons when he is going to make $15 million a year. This practice SAVES money. And it astronomically helps your ballclub by getting your player for cheaper. It's absolutely stupid, and one of the main reasons why Beinfest is not one of the premier GM's in baseball. You cannot pawn this issue off onto Loria, as we can with free agency, when it saves money.

 

You absolutely cannot blame this on Beinfest.

Absolutely 100%. It's his stated policy of not buying out player's arbitration and making them earn their pay check year to year. This is a great practice sometimes - like older prospects like Uggla, Willingham, and Jacobs who need to prove it for two plus years, or struggling youngsters like Hermida who need to show something to warrant it, or when you have insane pitching depth in the minors where we can go year to year with our current crop of starters not fear of not being able to field a staff - but freaking Beckett, Cabrera, Willis, and now Hanley (unless he shocks us with a 4-5 year contract before next April). He did not do it in 03-05 when payroll was double it's level now, so the new low budget is not an excuse.

 

If the Marlins had bought out Cabrera and Willis post 2004 and done everything else the same, the team would be saving $15-20 million dollars on their contracts over 2005-2009 (mostly all in the final three years) and be able to keep both players without threat of leaving because they'd have excellent contracts, ala Grady Sizemore, Dan Haren. You can blame Loria for the cheap overall team salary which is a separate issues and totally sucks, but Beinfest could have still managed to work with the budget assigned to him VASTLY more efficiently. There is absolutely no argument to that point, and the one I take major issue with. Beinfest has shown he is clueless at running a payroll. Great accumulator of talent. Can't run a budget. It's a big problem.

A few things:

1. The Marlins can not negotiate in good faith when they offer to pay Dontrelle or Cabrera $10 million in an upcoming year. The Marlins know this. Cabrera and Willis knows this. Their agents know this. Some fans refuse to accept this.

2. A long-term deal includes provisions aside from its length and monetary sum that would need to be negotiated. Some of these, such as protections against trading, would hamstring the Marlins in their efforts to continually put an exciting, if underpaid and rotating, cast on the field each year. So why even bother?

3. The Marlins believe that players perform at their best when on one-year contracts. This is likely true of players such as Willis and Cabrera. While those years will merely allow Cabrera and Willis' figures to grow, them being held to such a principle allows it to be accepted by others.

4. Even if the Marlins could afford and wanted to, how do Cabrera and Willis and their agents benefit? It takes two to sign a contract, and neither are necessarily in jeopardy of losing money from going year to year.

Mike Lowell was the only one of those players given a long term contract by the Marlins current ownership. They should have given that money to Derek Lee instead.

Too bad most of the people in this forum wanted Lee out of here A.S.A.P , calling him Mr. Anti-Clutch and what not. Look what he's doing now, i'm glad he's succeeded in Chicago .

 

 

AKA Derek Leave