and one final thing, i get the whole deal with the sun, duh

 

but heres the point:

 

if it were willingham or alfredo, different story

 

but hermida, sunny or cloudy, home or away, day or night, continues to make these blunders -- thats the difference

 

You 99% correct. Hermida is terrible in RF, but that doesn't mean the guy isn't human to were he cant lose a ball in the sun. Anyways bat > glove

 

yes his bat is better than his glove, but is bat more important than glove?

in the national league? from a six hitter? with miggy, hanley, uggla, jake, and hammer ahead of him

i dont know man, if his fielding was solid and he hit .230 i dont know that that wouldnt be better for us

Hermida is only a 6th hitter because we have a real good lineup/Uggla is out of place

 

Anyway, don't you remember how bad Willingham was in the outfield? Or Cabrera?

 

Hermida will improve

why does anyone ever respond to this douche?

well I'm an alcoholic, not sure what everyone else's excuse is

yes, i do remember hammer and miggy, and hermida is much worse

why does anyone ever respond to this douche?

well I'm an alcoholic, not sure what everyone else's excuse is

 

 

Everybody was doing it..so i thought it was ok

yes, i do remember hammer and miggy, and hermida is much worse

while he makes more errors, sure... but he gets to balls that those two couldn't

 

but arguing about who was the best in the outfield their first 2 years is pretty pointless

Comparing Hammer and Miguel in the OF with Jeremy is not a relevant comparison.

 

Miguel and Hammer were playing the OF for the first time in their careers while Jeremy has played the OF his entire career.

Comparing Hammer and Miguel in the OF with Jeremy is not a relevant comparison.

 

Miguel and Hammer were playing the OF for the first time in their careers while Jeremy has played the OF his entire career.

 

yes, which makes hermida even worse

Comparing Hammer and Miguel in the OF with Jeremy is not a relevant comparison.

 

Miguel and Hammer were playing the OF for the first time in their careers while Jeremy has played the OF his entire career.

and he's never even been close to this bad

 

hell he was rated average (or better) in every outfield category as a prospect

well i really hope that at some point soon he starts to show that form. my major concern is that he never easily catches a ball. he's always starting back and coming forward or starting forward and then running back

If you're talking about this season their OBP, SLG and OPS are pretty similar but in RBIs and runs scored Francouer blows him away becasue Jeremy can't stay healthy while Francouer plays every day and defensively Francouer is the far better player.

 

There's nothing wrong with citing stats as long as you present the entire picture.

And we are talking about this season. christ. Already mentioned health and defense (and K'ing), so don't know what you want. You're just an irrational hater at this point. Hermida is coming along just fine for a 23 year old player. Any Marlins fan who isn't excited about him, really isn't watching what he is doing and is harping a bit much on the defensive gaffes every few games. When those start disappearing and becoming less routine, maybe it'll hit you in face at what we have with this kid.

Both had four years of professional baseball before they made their debuts in MLB.

 

I dont really know what you have to dispute.

Listen, it's nice to have you on the pro-Hermida side, but don't compare him to Miguel Cabrera at any point

 

that doesn't help our side at all

 

wanna compare him to Shawn Green, Paul O Neill, Josh Willingham.... anyone else fine

 

but comparing him to the freaks that are Alex Rodriguez, Andruw Jones and Miguel Cabrera is just silly

 

I dont really think that I was comparing Hermida to Cabs, so much as using the most relevant player to our fanbase to show that judging a player through 550 at bats is asinine.

Start JOE BORCHARD RF

 

GLOVE > BAT

Hanley2, look, you're probably a good guy (although your comments to Admin Beinfest were incredibly juvenile no offense) but you have to understand when it comes to certain players, and Hermida is certainly one, you are never going to get the last word and everything you say will be branded foolish or retarded or crap or dumb because you actually believe there are two parts to every position player's game in the National League.

 

If you stick around here long enough you'll hear every excuse in the book from his age (ignoring of course he's been an outfielder professionally for six seasons now), to the sun in his eyes (no other rightfielder had to deal with the sun ever) to his injury[ies] to everything they can think of. But the facts are the facts, he has the second worst fielding percentage among major league outfielders playing more than fifty-five games this year and is second only in the number of errors committed to a guy who has played twenty more games than Hermida (Hall = 76 games - 8 errors, Hermida = 56 games - 7 errors).

 

I am personally heartened to see his bat begin to come around and maybe his defense will too but the evangelist's who worship at the altar of Hermida ignore their own sins - belief in what might be vs. acceptance of what is - and will stone you to death if they have the chance for saying the obvious - right now Hermida isn't a very good defensive rightfielder who has not shown the improvement defensively he has with his bat.

 

I, we, want Hermida to succeed. We want him to become the star and asset to the team everyone who followed minor league prospects were sure he would be, because what we want is for the team to flourish, to be successful, to be playing in October again, and sometimes it seems the zealots need something to complain about, to carp about, to belittle, to put-down, something to tear apart rather than just enjoying the game for what it's meant to be.

 

You're also going to find yourself defending things you didn't say, but I think you're getting used to that already. You're not calling Hermida a bum or garbage or crap or any the pet names they like to use when they're talking about players they don't like, and certainly neither am I. No one is saying he should be DFA'd or demanding the FO dump him from the team or scream he has to go, all you're doing is stating the obvious. He is at best right now a very incomplete ballplayer who has let his team down any number of times so far this season and has not lived up to the potential so many believed he had in him.

 

I loved the comparison to Cabrera, God that was funny. Ignoring the production differential because those stats didn't fit the false image they wanted to project, or the age differential or one guy being a career outfielder vs a kid who is thrown into a pennant race at a position he had only started to play a month or so before.

 

In much the same way that the saying goes "a good DA can get a ham sandwich indicted", these evangelists think stats are there to distort, to manipulate, to pick and chose so to fit their purposes, but again, if you stick around here long enough you'll probably read someone trying to use stats to convince you that Chuck Carr was the equivalent of Ricky Henderson when in fact the only thing they had in common was they both speak about themselves in the third person.

 

And for what it's worth forget about right and wrong, as I said above, it's about getting the last word, always.

 

I look forward to when Jeremy Hermida is a complete ballplayer who contributes up to his abilities in every facet of the game. I suspect so do you. I'm not sure that I can say that about everyone here as it concerns every player on the team. It seems all too often lately some people look for the smallest thing to blow out of proportion about a player they don't like while forgiving the obvious mistakes of the players they're enamored of. But such is life on a messageboard.

 

Good luck, keep posting but whatever you do don't expect a full exploration of the whole truth. As Alice said, things just get "curiouser and curiouser" here in Wonderland.

Lets us know when your are ready to come down from your pedestal.

What an absolute slap in the face to those like Ensam, Lou and others (if I missed someone, my apologies) who have a clue about baseball on this board.

 

Seriously.

 

Want to disagree, that's what this board is for. But you just belittled a couple of guys who have more baseball knowledge in their finger nails than most people do in the world (those outside front offices)

If you're talking about this season their OBP, SLG and OPS are pretty similar but in RBIs and runs scored Francouer blows him away becasue Jeremy can't stay healthy while Francouer plays every day and defensively Francouer is the far better player.

 

There's nothing wrong with citing stats as long as you present the entire picture.

And we are talking about this season. christ. Already mentioned health and defense (and K'ing), so don't know what you want. You're just an irrational hater at this point. Hermida is coming along just fine for a 23 year old player. Any Marlins fan who isn't excited about him, really isn't watching what he is doing and is harping a bit much on the defensive gaffes every few games. When those start disappearing and becoming less routine, maybe it'll hit you in face at what we have with this kid.

You're the one that :lol ed at their '07 comparison as if Jeremy was clearly having the better season. Isn't that what you meant with the :lol ? That's what I took from it.

 

The funny thing is I like Jeremy and if he stays healthy, a big if there, I would bet on him being a better offensive player than Francouer as their careers progress but all the stuff you and the others come up with to excuse his dissapointing play and the selective use of certain stats are too much to pass up responding to on a slow and boring day at the office.

What an absolute slap in the face to those like Ensam, Lou and others (if I missed someone, my apologies) who have a clue about baseball on this board.

 

Seriously.

 

Want to disagree, that's what this board is for. But you just belittled a couple of guys who have more baseball knowledge in their finger nails than most people do in the world (those outside front offices)

 

Just too bad huh...truth hurts.

 

And frankly I had none of them in mind particularly when I wrote what I wrote. Lou and i disagree a bit but he doesn't try to manipulate stats and Ensam I barely know and what I've read of his is sometimes stuff I agree with and sometimes not, but I don't know what you're trying to do with your post. To what end I don't know. I think Lou and I can agree to disagree about a lot of things and we do, I think he forgets it takes two sides to make a trade and there are two parts to the game, but I generally find him a good contributor here.

 

I'm talking about people who take one or two stats and ignore the rest and know they are doing it, just to make a point. That certainly isn't either of the two I mentioned above. Ensam if anything is a guy who digs and digs and presents tons of stuff. The complete opposite of what I'm illustrating.

 

***I edited this.

LOL

 

So now I'm a terrible poster and can't stick up for anyone?

 

***the only one I recall who manipulated stats was Spike, but everyone called him out on that for comparing Cabs to Hermida

 

why not just call out Spike instead of making it a guessing game

 

***=edited

Once again, wasnt comparing Cabs and Hermida. Players of Cabs ilk are rare to say the least.

 

The point I was trying to get across, was that if you just looked at the raw #s through the first 550 at bats, without knowing who said stats belonged to, one could get a false impression of what that player has the ability to become. This is evidenced by the fact that of around 7-10 guesses, one person said Cabrera.

 

Comparing the two? Hardly. Using the most relevant Marlins player currently on the team to show that early career stats can skew a person's views on a player? Absolutely.

LOL

 

So now I'm a terrible poster and can't stick up for anyone?

 

***the only one I recall who manipulated stats was Spike, but everyone called him out on that for comparing Cabs to Hermida

 

why not just call out Spike instead of making it a guessing game

 

***=edited

 

 

add Swift

LOL

 

So now I'm a terrible poster and can't stick up for anyone?

 

Why don't you try reading what I just wrote? A new concept perhaps but not a novel one. And neither Lou nor Ensam need you to stick up for them unless maybe they are straw men for who you really want to protect?

 

I can't read your mind but you're way off base.

 

Adding comments to Fish FF :

 

It isn't explicitly about Spike, I've been writing my post over an hour or so here and there and it wasn't about just this thread today but the litany of "the guy's crap", this guy is a bum", "Beinfest should dump that guy he's crap..." stuff that goes on here all the time and has gotten worse this year for some reason as people seem to have lost any sense of civility and acceptance that even a Joe Borchard or Abercrombie has earned the right to wear a major league uniform, even if it's just for a day.

 

The fact I posted this today was (inside my head) long in the making. But it can't be here that people are so zealous about a player on one side or the other they can't allow for someone to point out a player's obvious shortcomings *** or strongpoints***.

LOL

 

So now I'm a terrible poster and can't stick up for anyone?

 

Why don't you try reading what I just wrote? A new concept perhaps but not a novel one. And neither Lou nor Ensam need you to stick up for them unless maybe they are straw men for who you really want to protect?

 

I can't read your mind but you're way off base.

 

Adding comments to Fish FF :

 

It isn't explicitly about Spike, I've been writing my post over an hour or so here and there and it wasn't about just this thread today but the litany of "the guy's crap", this guy is a bum", "Beinfest should dump that guy he's crap..." stuff that goes on here all the time and has gotten worse this year for some reason as people seem to have lost any sense of civility and acceptance that even a Joe Borchard or Abercrombie has earned the right to wear a major league uniform, even if it's just for a day.

 

The fact I posted this today was (inside my head) long in the making. But it can't be here that people are so zealous about a player on one side or the other they can't allow for someone to point out a player's obvious shortcomings *** or strongpoints***.

No, they certainly don't need me to stick up for them. But there's nothing wrong in doing so.

 

Everyone here will tell you how bad Hermida's defense has been. No one will tell you otherwise.

 

I really don't see the problem in defending Jeremy though on the offensive end.

 

And maybe this post of yours has been stewing for days, but when you post it today, and in this thread after what has gone on, it certainly sounds like you are calling out a few of the board's more knowledgeable guys

Ramp, you've known me a long time.

 

I have two complaints here generally (and for the record you didn't see me complaining about Hermida's improved offense) . One is people who call professional ballplayers, the best, the mediocre, the worst, names like crap of sh*t or garbage (saying some played like crap tonight is different from call the guy crap), and the other is people who look through fifty stats and ignore 49 of them, knowing they are doing that, and making that 50th one out like it symbolizes everything that a ballplayer is.

 

Those two things bothered me in 2003 and they bother me today. Only recently I think it's gotten worse.

 

You have to understand that you're wrong about me calling out the people you named, especially Ensam who I barely know and can 100% pro ise was the last guy in the world I was thinking of.

 

Much more the clownshoes described in the first paragraph. Sorry if I ruffled your feathers but if I have a complaint with you I've always told you I did. The name-callers, the gotta get the last word guys, the stat manipulators. The put down artists.

The fact I posted this today was (inside my head) long in the making. But it can't be here that people are so zealous about a player on one side or the other they can't allow for someone to point out a player's obvious shortcomings *** or strongpoints***.

Why don't you keep your holier than thou contrite inner monologues to yourself and quit believing you aren't absolutely the # 1 instigator on this message board after posting AMAZINGLY disrespectful posts such as that rambling mess above. Personally, I morally object to the triumph of idiocy. That is why I post so fervently when people are making incorrect links, citing statistics poorly, and generally have a weak opinion that is basically unsubstantiated and cannot be explained. I would love to contest all of the points in your mess above, but there is really no use dealing with you anymore. You absolutely have your own idea of every situation, whether it's absolutely disproved or not, i.e., our discussions on player's arbitration that you did not understand by refusing to acknowledge the situation, so why bother yet again, pointing out all your flaws in understanding a situation or general reasoning because the end result, is just further personal frustration on how someone who is clearly articulate, can be so dumb at the same time. Excuse the run on, as I'm sure the grammar police are just around the corner. As for Ramp, he is wealth of knowledge compared to you. That's all I have to say about those recent squabblings.

 

Since you always like to leave little quotes and analogies to literature and the arts, I'll do the same. Quote the Prophet.

 

"What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

The fact I posted this today was (inside my head) long in the making. But it can't be here that people are so zealous about a player on one side or the other they can't allow for someone to point out a player's obvious shortcomings *** or strongpoints***.

Why don't you keep your holier than thou contrite inner monologues to yourself and quit believing you aren't absolutely the # 1 instigator on this message board after posting AMAZINGLY disrespectful posts such as that rambling mess above. Personally, I morally object to the triumph of idiocy. That is why I post so fervently when people are making incorrect links, citing statistics poorly, and generally have a weak opinion that is basically unsubstantiated and cannot be explained. I would love to contest all of the points in your mess above, but there is really no use dealing with you anymore. You absolutely have your own idea of every situation, whether it's absolutely disproved or not, i.e., our discussions on player's arbitration that you did not understand by refusing to acknowledge the situation, so why bother yet again, pointing out all your flaws in understanding a situation or general reasoning because the end result, is just further personal frustration on how someone who is clearly articulate, can be so dumb at the same time. Excuse the run on, as I'm sure the grammar police are just around the corner. As for Ramp, he is wealth of knowledge compared to you. That's all I have to say about those recent squabblings.

 

Since you always like to leave little quotes and analogies to literature and the arts, I'll do the same. Quote the Prophet.

 

"What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

 

 

 

 

Marlins2003 isnt CLOSE to being the biggest instigator on this board.

 

 

And FWIW I didnt find his post to be "rambling" at all. It was well thought out, quite entertaining (loved the Chuckie Carr/Ricky Henderson 3rd person thing!) and he didnt call anyone out by name.

 

 

I think maybe what bothered some people about his post was this fascination on this board with getting the last word in. I can think of 3 or 4 ppl on this board who have this chronic illness about getting the last word in (not alluding to you MLou).