June 13, 200818 yr Sure, I will... Wagner's postseason career: 10.1 IP 9.58 ERA 3/4 saves/save opps. Erick... you're seriously gonna judge him on 10 innings pitched? Seriously? A-Rod was 0-20 at one point last year, I guess the dude's a bum... no, not a bum...but certain players do get worse in the postseason. A Rod's another one. A-Rod's post-season OPS is .820 still very good, not quite his career .967, but still very good Also, Wagner is VERY VERY VERY much the subject of small sample size there, that is a horrible assessment to make based on 10 IP...
June 13, 200818 yr The only thing better would have being if one of the blown saves was in a Perez start because of how he threw Perez under the bus a few weeks ago. according to Rabbe though...he probably didn't. :whistle Really classy talking about a teammate publicly that way, huh? Would've been nice to see Perez comeback today and say..."Billy can't be blowing saves for us, when we have a chance to win games, like that." According to Rabb... and what really happened... Perez (and others) left before the media got there, and Wagner was being asked all the questions (Why'd the team lose? Why are you guys playing so poorly?) Wagner answered honestly, they were losing games he had nothing to do with, if you asked him now, he'd tell you that these past few losses were his fault... I can't imagine Wagner reacting like that if it hadn't become commonplace for those players to avoid the media This is completely wrong. Please check the facts.
June 13, 200818 yr The only thing better would have being if one of the blown saves was in a Perez start because of how he threw Perez under the bus a few weeks ago. according to Rabbe though...he probably didn't. :whistle Really classy talking about a teammate publicly that way, huh? Would've been nice to see Perez comeback today and say..."Billy can't be blowing saves for us, when we have a chance to win games, like that." According to Rabb... and what really happened... Perez (and others) left before the media got there, and Wagner was being asked all the questions (Why'd the team lose? Why are you guys playing so poorly?) Wagner answered honestly, they were losing games he had nothing to do with, if you asked him now, he'd tell you that these past few losses were his fault... I can't imagine Wagner reacting like that if it hadn't become commonplace for those players to avoid the media fine...say "no comment" and leave. As my mom says, "don't do to others what you wouldn't like being done to you." Fans can complain. As fans, it's what we do, and as professionals players usually shrug it off. But as teammates...it shouldn't be done. Period. You got something to say...say it man to man. Not publicly for everyone to hear.
June 13, 200818 yr Sure, I will... Wagner's postseason career: 10.1 IP 9.58 ERA 3/4 saves/save opps. Erick... you're seriously gonna judge him on 10 innings pitched? Seriously? A-Rod was 0-20 at one point last year, I guess the dude's a bum... no, not a bum...but certain players do get worse in the postseason. A Rod's another one. A-Rod's post-season OPS is .820 still very good, not quite his career .967, but still very good Also, Wagner is VERY VERY VERY much the subject of small sample size there, that is a horrible assessment to make based on 10 IP... and lets say he throws another 10 IP, and goes scoreless...his ERA would STILL be in the mid-high 4's, which for a closer is bad. It might be a small sample size, but when you allow more runs than innings pitched, that's pretty terrible, regardless of the sample size.
June 13, 200818 yr The left-handed closer has continued his assault on his own clubhouse, however. Wagner became agitated after the Mets lost three of four to the last- place Washington Nationals, especially Thursday's conclusion of the four-game set that saw Carlos Delgado line into a double play, with Carlos Beltran getting picked off third to end the game. Now, the lack of availability at the conclusion of games by New York's Latin players became an issue last year when then-catcher Paul Lo Duca offered out his disgust of how only a handful of players were dealing with the media after games. Said Wagner to reporters after Thursday's loss, "Can someone tell me why the (expletive) the closer's being interviewed when I didn't even play," Wagner told reporters http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform...aspx?id=4150331 This is the "leave early" incidences, and how it was becoming commonplace I was talking about, before people call me wrong... "It's getting ridiculous," said Wagner, who surrendered the two-out, ninth-inning, game-tying three-run homer to the Diamondbacks' Mark Reynolds on Wednesday night and a three-run homer to the San Diego Padres' Tony Clark in the eighth inning on Sunday. "You make pitches, they get hits. It's frustrating to go out there with our team having a chance to win and just (stink). I'm not getting the job done right now. I don't think about the saves I've gotten. They can't help me. It's not the team right now, it's all on me." http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball...illie_rand.html And here is Wagner owning up to his own crap... I've heard before that Minaya has been giving some players special treatment, while that doesn't have much credibility in itself, when the players themselves call it out, there is a problem Lemme just say that I don't necessarily condone all of Wagner's actions, and that he should probably keep it in house... but when, even in-house the GM is kind of excusing some guys, as is being alleged, then this is the only reason to fix that... Wagner may be talking himself out of New York, but he may also be talking Minaya out too
June 13, 200818 yr The left-handed closer has continued his assault on his own clubhouse, however. Wagner became agitated after the Mets lost three of four to the last- place Washington Nationals, especially Thursday's conclusion of the four-game set that saw Carlos Delgado line into a double play, with Carlos Beltran getting picked off third to end the game. Now, the lack of availability at the conclusion of games by New York's Latin players became an issue last year when then-catcher Paul Lo Duca offered out his disgust of how only a handful of players were dealing with the media after games. Said Wagner to reporters after Thursday's loss, "Can someone tell me why the (expletive) the closer's being interviewed when I didn't even play," Wagner told reporters http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform...aspx?id=4150331 This is the "leave early" incidences, and how it was becoming commonplace I was talking about, before people call me wrong... The article you read didn't give the whole story... ========== Spicing his remarks with expletives, Wagner wondered aloud why reporters were asking him questions, since he did not pitch, and not instead questioning players who did play and whose lockers were across the room. "I get it," Wagner said. "They're gone." The they, from the direction of Wagner's angry gesture, seemed to be Carlos Beltr?n, Luis Castillo and, most particularly, Carlos Delgado. Beltr?n and Castillo had indeed spoken to reporters before departing, but Delgado, who lined into a game-ending double play, had dressed and left without doing so. Wagner, it was clear, was suggesting that some Mets players are accountable, and others are not. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/sports/b...amp;oref=slogin
June 13, 200818 yr The left-handed closer has continued his assault on his own clubhouse, however. Wagner became agitated after the Mets lost three of four to the last- place Washington Nationals, especially Thursday's conclusion of the four-game set that saw Carlos Delgado line into a double play, with Carlos Beltran getting picked off third to end the game. Now, the lack of availability at the conclusion of games by New York's Latin players became an issue last year when then-catcher Paul Lo Duca offered out his disgust of how only a handful of players were dealing with the media after games. Said Wagner to reporters after Thursday's loss, "Can someone tell me why the (expletive) the closer's being interviewed when I didn't even play," Wagner told reporters http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform...aspx?id=4150331 This is the "leave early" incidences, and how it was becoming commonplace I was talking about, before people call me wrong... The article you read didn't give the whole story... ========== Spicing his remarks with expletives, Wagner wondered aloud why reporters were asking him questions, since he did not pitch, and not instead questioning players who did play and whose lockers were across the room. "I get it," Wagner said. "They're gone." The they, from the direction of Wagner's angry gesture, seemed to be Carlos Beltr?n, Luis Castillo and, most particularly, Carlos Delgado. Beltr?n and Castillo had indeed spoken to reporters before departing, but Delgado, who lined into a game-ending double play, had dressed and left without doing so. Wagner, it was clear, was suggesting that some Mets players are accountable, and others are not. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/sports/b...amp;oref=slogin That part I bolded is the important part of it... the writer there speculates that he was also calling out Beltran and Castillo, and while he may have, that's wrong of him, but there are some players on the Mets that aren't accountable for stuff, I have ZERO problem believing that, and I can completely understand Wagner being frustrated at such a thing
June 13, 200818 yr Sure, I will... Wagner's postseason career: 10.1 IP 9.58 ERA 3/4 saves/save opps. I have one too: Career 2.38 ERA September/October 1.77 ERA Career WHIP 1.001 September/October 0.999 WHIP He actually does BETTER in September/October than in the rest of his career. I might as well add that this is 132.1 IP, which is a slightly larger sample size than 10.1 IP.
June 13, 200818 yr Sure, I will... Wagner's postseason career: 10.1 IP 9.58 ERA 3/4 saves/save opps. I have one too: Career 2.38 ERA September/October 1.77 ERA Career WHIP 1.001 September/October 0.999 WHIP He actually does BETTER in September/October than in the rest of his career. I believe I said "later on in the year." That could be whenever..."later on in the year." You asked for stats...I gave you postseason stats (which are a part of what makes closers great...why do you think Mariano Rivera is considered the best of all-time? What do you think separates him from Wagner/Hoffman??, when it's all said and done?) And back to the MAIN point...I still believe he's wrong to throw his teammates under the bus. You don't hear his teammates doing it to him now, right? "Don't do to others what you don't want being done to you." Wagner is an idiot. The main point you guys have is that he was the scapegoat...then again, he always had the option of saying "no comment" and leaving...or just doing a Delgado, and leaving altogether. He's not a fan, he's not a manager, he's a player. A player that makes mistakes just like his teammates. So, talking crap about the teammates, really makes no sense. If anything, you should be able to relate to them.
June 13, 200818 yr Sure, I will... Wagner's postseason career: 10.1 IP 9.58 ERA 3/4 saves/save opps. I have one too: Career 2.38 ERA September/October 1.77 ERA Career WHIP 1.001 September/October 0.999 WHIP He actually does BETTER in September/October than in the rest of his career. I believe I said "later on in the year." That could be whenever..."later on in the year." You asked for stats...I gave you postseason stats (which are a part of what makes closers great...why do you think Mariano Rivera is considered the best of all-time? What do you think separates him from Wagner/Hoffman??, when it's all said and done?) And back to the MAIN point...I still believe he's wrong to throw his teammates under the bus. You don't hear his teammates doing it to him now, right? "Don't do to others what you don't want being done to you." Wagner is an idiot. The main point you guys have is that he was the scapegoat...then again, he always had the option of saying "no comment" and leaving...or just doing a Delgado, and leaving altogether. He's not a fan, he's not a manager, he's a player. A player that makes mistakes just like his teammates. So, talking crap about the teammates, really makes no sense. If anything, you should be able to relate to them. Earlier when you were talking about "later on in the year", you were giving examples of all the saves he blew last September, including a "couple big tough ones" to Philly. Now, my first problem was that none of that happened, and then you danced over to him being bad "later on in the year". I called you on it, so I can only assume you found out he was great at the end of the season, so you danced on over to the 10 innings he pitched in the playoffs. I came back with his awesome stats there, and you go with that "later on in the year" could be any 10 innings in 14 years of pitching at the end of a season... Seriously man, can't you just admit that you were wrong and there is a huge amount of data to back it? If you don't like him, fine, but don't say he is bad at the end of the season when he is great. I hate Jimmy Rollins but I don't say that he can't hit or field.
June 13, 200818 yr Let me just add something about Hoffman vs Rivera. What makes Rivera better than Hoffman is not just the Postseason record, even though that is a big part of it (Rivera has pitched 117.1 innings in the postseason, while Hoffman has only pitched 13). It's because his stats are better. He has a lower Career ERA, a lower Career WHIP and a higher Save %.
June 13, 200818 yr Sure, I will... Wagner's postseason career: 10.1 IP 9.58 ERA 3/4 saves/save opps. I have one too: Career 2.38 ERA September/October 1.77 ERA Career WHIP 1.001 September/October 0.999 WHIP He actually does BETTER in September/October than in the rest of his career. I believe I said "later on in the year." That could be whenever..."later on in the year." You asked for stats...I gave you postseason stats (which are a part of what makes closers great...why do you think Mariano Rivera is considered the best of all-time? What do you think separates him from Wagner/Hoffman??, when it's all said and done?) And back to the MAIN point...I still believe he's wrong to throw his teammates under the bus. You don't hear his teammates doing it to him now, right? "Don't do to others what you don't want being done to you." Wagner is an idiot. The main point you guys have is that he was the scapegoat...then again, he always had the option of saying "no comment" and leaving...or just doing a Delgado, and leaving altogether. He's not a fan, he's not a manager, he's a player. A player that makes mistakes just like his teammates. So, talking crap about the teammates, really makes no sense. If anything, you should be able to relate to them. Earlier when you were talking about "later on in the year", you were giving examples of all the saves he blew last September, including a "couple big tough ones" to Philly. Now, my first problem was that none of that happened, and then you danced over to him being bad "later on in the year". I called you on it, so I can only assume you found out he was great at the end of the season, so you danced on over to the 10 innings he pitched in the playoffs. I came back with his awesome stats there, and you go with that "later on in the year" could be any 10 innings in 14 years of pitching at the end of a season... Seriously man, can't you just admit that you were wrong and there is a huge amount of data to back it? If you don't like him, fine, but don't say he is bad at the end of the season when he is great. I hate Jimmy Rollins but I don't say that he can't hit or field. OMG...I came back, and said I'll trust you on the stats in Philly last year. What else would you like me to do? Kiss your feat? There's a reason they keep playoff stats...it's a different season where the pressure is quite a bit different...regardless of the sample size, 10.2 innings, allowing 11 ER is horrendus. Did I mention the Philadelphia series in THIS THREAD? No, I didn't. I brought up his postseason #'s which are pretty bad...it's not the same as saying Rollins can't field, b/c Rollins won the gold glove, last year. While Rollins did not deserve that gold glove, he was still worthy of being called a candidate, so that's a terrible analogy.
June 13, 200818 yr Let me just add something about Hoffman vs Rivera. What makes Rivera better than Hoffman is not just the Postseason record, even though that is a big part of it (Rivera has pitched 117.1 innings in the postseason, while Hoffman has only pitched 13). It's because his stats are better. He has a lower Career ERA, a lower Career WHIP and a higher Save %. ...and b/c he's been dominant in the playoffs, while Hoffman (small sample size, and all) has still choked every single chance he's gotten in the playoffs. Just look at the crap he did last year, trying to get his team INTO the playoffs. But no...I'm sure that has nothing to do with it. It's a little bit of everything...the fact that Rivera has been SO MUCH GREATER in the postseason though, makes him that much better. Why do you think everytime he comes out in the playoffs, broadcasters call him "the best postseason reliever/pitcher" of all-time? To just mention a nice stat, they find attractive? It has some meaning.
June 13, 200818 yr Let me just add something about Hoffman vs Rivera. What makes Rivera better than Hoffman is not just the Postseason record, even though that is a big part of it (Rivera has pitched 117.1 innings in the postseason, while Hoffman has only pitched 13). It's because his stats are better. He has a lower Career ERA, a lower Career WHIP and a higher Save %. ...and b/c he's been dominant in the playoffs, while Hoffman (small sample size, and all) has still choked every single chance he's gotten in the playoffs. Just look at the crap he did last year, trying to get his team INTO the playoffs. But no...I'm sure that has nothing to do with it. It's a little bit of everything...the fact that Rivera has been SO MUCH GREATER in the postseason though, makes him that much better. Why do you think everytime he comes out in the playoffs, broadcasters call him "the best postseason reliever/pitcher" of all-time? To just mention a nice stat, they find attractive? It has some meaning. You throw that "chocked" sh*t around all the time with nothing to back it up. Here are Hoffman's stats for the playoffs: 1996 - 10.80 ERA, 1.2 IP 1998 - 2.79 ERA, 9.1 IP 2005 - 0.00 ERA, 1 IP 2006 - 0.00 ERA, 1 IP Man, 1 bad year, 3 good years...what a piece of sh*t. And yes, Rivera is the greatest postseason reliever ever...there is a great argument that he is the greatest regular season reliever ever as well. I'm a huge Rivera fan BTW, as we are fellow countrymen.
June 13, 200818 yr Let me just add something about Hoffman vs Rivera. What makes Rivera better than Hoffman is not just the Postseason record, even though that is a big part of it (Rivera has pitched 117.1 innings in the postseason, while Hoffman has only pitched 13). It's because his stats are better. He has a lower Career ERA, a lower Career WHIP and a higher Save %. ...and b/c he's been dominant in the playoffs, while Hoffman (small sample size, and all) has still choked every single chance he's gotten in the playoffs. Just look at the crap he did last year, trying to get his team INTO the playoffs. But no...I'm sure that has nothing to do with it. It's a little bit of everything...the fact that Rivera has been SO MUCH GREATER in the postseason though, makes him that much better. Why do you think everytime he comes out in the playoffs, broadcasters call him "the best postseason reliever/pitcher" of all-time? To just mention a nice stat, they find attractive? It has some meaning. You throw that "chocked" sh*t around all the time with nothing to back it up. Here are Hoffman's stats for the playoffs: 1996 - 10.80 ERA, 1.2 IP 1998 - 2.79 ERA, 9.1 IP 2005 - 0.00 ERA, 1 IP 2006 - 0.00 ERA, 1 IP Man, 1 bad year, 3 good years...what a piece of sh*t. And yes, Rivera is the greatest postseason reliever ever...there is a great argument that he is the greatest regular season reliever ever as well. I'm a huge Rivera fan BTW, as we are fellow countrymen. ...ok, now, would you like to show me Rivera's #'s and tell me that that's not why Rivera is considered so much greater? Please. Certain closers are awesome under all circumstances, and some are not. Hoffman does not compare to Rivera in these types of games. Heck, just look at what he did last year in that 163rd regular season game. (doesn't get counted as a playoff game, but it should, after 162.) Speaking of Game 162, 162 was blown by him last year, as well. This comparison is a joke. ...btw, isn't this about Wagner? or are we done with him, now? As a matter of fact, it's probably a better idea to be done with this thread. Seems like I always get in trouble on this board, when I talk about closers, for some reason.
June 13, 200818 yr Let me just add something about Hoffman vs Rivera. What makes Rivera better than Hoffman is not just the Postseason record, even though that is a big part of it (Rivera has pitched 117.1 innings in the postseason, while Hoffman has only pitched 13). It's because his stats are better. He has a lower Career ERA, a lower Career WHIP and a higher Save %. ...and b/c he's been dominant in the playoffs, while Hoffman (small sample size, and all) has still choked every single chance he's gotten in the playoffs. Just look at the crap he did last year, trying to get his team INTO the playoffs. But no...I'm sure that has nothing to do with it. It's a little bit of everything...the fact that Rivera has been SO MUCH GREATER in the postseason though, makes him that much better. Why do you think everytime he comes out in the playoffs, broadcasters call him "the best postseason reliever/pitcher" of all-time? To just mention a nice stat, they find attractive? It has some meaning. You throw that "chocked" sh*t around all the time with nothing to back it up. Here are Hoffman's stats for the playoffs: 1996 - 10.80 ERA, 1.2 IP 1998 - 2.79 ERA, 9.1 IP 2005 - 0.00 ERA, 1 IP 2006 - 0.00 ERA, 1 IP Man, 1 bad year, 3 good years...what a piece of sh*t. And yes, Rivera is the greatest postseason reliever ever...there is a great argument that he is the greatest regular season reliever ever as well. I'm a huge Rivera fan BTW, as we are fellow countrymen. ...ok, now, would you like to show me Rivera's #'s and tell me that that's not why Rivera is considered so much greater? Please. Certain closers are awesome under all circumstances, and some are not. Hoffman does not compare to Rivera in these types of games. Heck, just look at what he did last year in that 163rd regular season game. (doesn't get counted as a playoff game, but it should, after 162.) Speaking of Game 162, 162 was blown by him last year, as well. This comparison is a joke. ...btw, isn't this about Wagner? or are we done with him, now? As a matter of fact, it's probably a better idea to be done with this thread. Seems like I always get in trouble on this board, when I talk about closers, for some reason. Well, I was talking about Wagner and you brought up Rivera vs Hoffman, as we went off on that. And as far as saying that his postseason numbers have nothing to do with why he is considered better than Hoffman...I will quote myself two posts ago: Let me just add something about Hoffman vs Rivera. What makes Rivera better than Hoffman is not just the Postseason record, even though that is a big part of it (Rivera has pitched 117.1 innings in the postseason, while Hoffman has only pitched 13). It's because his stats are better. He has a lower Career ERA, a lower Career WHIP and a higher Save %. I did say that it was a big part of why he is considered better. But if he was better in the post season, and Hoffman was better in the other 1000 innings, it wouldn't be so clear cut. And do you know why I keep getting on you about things you say? It's because you keep throwing blanket comments on things that are wrong. You say Hoffman is a chocker in the postseason when he is average and had one bad postseason and 3 good ones. You say Wagner chokes at the end of the season when he is actually better at the end of the season. And we've already had novels worth of discussion about Gregg.
June 13, 200818 yr Let me just add something about Hoffman vs Rivera. What makes Rivera better than Hoffman is not just the Postseason record, even though that is a big part of it (Rivera has pitched 117.1 innings in the postseason, while Hoffman has only pitched 13). It's because his stats are better. He has a lower Career ERA, a lower Career WHIP and a higher Save %. ...and b/c he's been dominant in the playoffs, while Hoffman (small sample size, and all) has still choked every single chance he's gotten in the playoffs. Just look at the crap he did last year, trying to get his team INTO the playoffs. But no...I'm sure that has nothing to do with it. It's a little bit of everything...the fact that Rivera has been SO MUCH GREATER in the postseason though, makes him that much better. Why do you think everytime he comes out in the playoffs, broadcasters call him "the best postseason reliever/pitcher" of all-time? To just mention a nice stat, they find attractive? It has some meaning. You throw that "chocked" sh*t around all the time with nothing to back it up. Here are Hoffman's stats for the playoffs: 1996 - 10.80 ERA, 1.2 IP 1998 - 2.79 ERA, 9.1 IP 2005 - 0.00 ERA, 1 IP 2006 - 0.00 ERA, 1 IP Man, 1 bad year, 3 good years...what a piece of sh*t. And yes, Rivera is the greatest postseason reliever ever...there is a great argument that he is the greatest regular season reliever ever as well. I'm a huge Rivera fan BTW, as we are fellow countrymen. ...ok, now, would you like to show me Rivera's #'s and tell me that that's not why Rivera is considered so much greater? Please. Certain closers are awesome under all circumstances, and some are not. Hoffman does not compare to Rivera in these types of games. Heck, just look at what he did last year in that 163rd regular season game. (doesn't get counted as a playoff game, but it should, after 162.) Speaking of Game 162, 162 was blown by him last year, as well. This comparison is a joke. ...btw, isn't this about Wagner? or are we done with him, now? As a matter of fact, it's probably a better idea to be done with this thread. Seems like I always get in trouble on this board, when I talk about closers, for some reason. Well, I was talking about Wagner and you brought up Rivera vs Hoffman, as we went off on that. And as far as saying that his postseason numbers have nothing to do with why he is considered better than Hoffman...I will quote myself two posts ago: Let me just add something about Hoffman vs Rivera. What makes Rivera better than Hoffman is not just the Postseason record, even though that is a big part of it (Rivera has pitched 117.1 innings in the postseason, while Hoffman has only pitched 13). It's because his stats are better. He has a lower Career ERA, a lower Career WHIP and a higher Save %. I did say that it was a big part of why he is considered better. But if he was better in the post season, and Hoffman was better in the other 1000 innings, it wouldn't be so clear cut. And do you know why I keep getting on you about things you say? It's because you keep throwing blanket comments on things that are wrong. You say Hoffman is a chocker in the postseason when he is average and had one bad postseason and 3 good ones. You say Wagner chokes at the end of the season when he is actually better at the end of the season. And we've already had novels worth of discussion about Gregg. Yes, I did say Hoffman was a choker in the playoffs. Closers usually get that word thrown at them, when they are very good in the regular season, and become average come playoff time, regardless of sample size. Guess you haven't heard very many analysts, in your day. As for Wagner...I already admitted this...I was wrong about his September last year. I even complimented you, and said " I trust you with those stats." What else would you like me to say? Would you like me to call you King Rabbe? Oh, and Gregg...yes, we've already had novels on all the words you've put in my mouth regarding Gregg. Lets see...the whole year, basically, I've been calling Gregg an average/replaceable closer. You're just a little mad b/c I said he's having an All-Star caliber year like 2 weeks ago. Well, 2 weeks ago it was debatable. Now, since he has 4 blown saves, and his ERA/WHIP are still not spectacular for a closer, it is no longer debatable. Get it now? You act like a child here. I made a prediction saying Gregg is making a case for the All-Star Game (2 weeks ago), and all of the sudden, when it backfires, and I complain, you go out, in full force, to call me names, b/c according to you, you thought that I thought Gregg was a very good closer...which is something, I never said. Really though...it's cute. Real cute how the people on the gamethreads get no complaints from you when Cantu hits HR's, and they compliment him, right after they finish bashing him. Why don't you complain with that? I've defended Cantu all year on this board, yet people who have said "Cantu sucks" all year, are now starting to like him...and you seem to have no problem with that. None at all. Oh...and why don't you have a problem with the people who basically bashed me when we got Jacque Jones and I said "same sh*t, different smell." Huh? Isn't that the same crap as Gregg? I made a prediction on Gregg...it turned out wrong. I made a prediction on Jones...and boy, was I right. But lets not criticize the people who complimented the Jones pickup, only to bash him when he went like 3-30 in his stint with us. Please... Before you attack me on Gregg...you should probably go back to my threads with el_penguino, and read word for word what I said. Not once did I consider Kevin Gregg a part of this team's future, and not once did I call him anything more than an average closer. I just said he was having an All-Star caliber year...2 weeks ago. Forgive me, for being wrong on a prediction. I never knew I wasn't allowed to be human.
June 13, 200818 yr Why is this thread here, didn't you guys made up a rule about posting mets news here? I wouldn't say "loving." We don't talk about the Mets everyday, and I don't really think we have a "rival." Some people hate the Mets on here, but, in general, we just care about the Marlins. Btw, why did you post this here? Don't the Mets have a board? The "Major League Baseball section" is usually to discuss injuries, certain players, etc.
June 13, 200818 yr Let me just add something about Hoffman vs Rivera. What makes Rivera better than Hoffman is not just the Postseason record, even though that is a big part of it (Rivera has pitched 117.1 innings in the postseason, while Hoffman has only pitched 13). It's because his stats are better. He has a lower Career ERA, a lower Career WHIP and a higher Save %. ...and b/c he's been dominant in the playoffs, while Hoffman (small sample size, and all) has still choked every single chance he's gotten in the playoffs. Just look at the crap he did last year, trying to get his team INTO the playoffs. But no...I'm sure that has nothing to do with it. It's a little bit of everything...the fact that Rivera has been SO MUCH GREATER in the postseason though, makes him that much better. Why do you think everytime he comes out in the playoffs, broadcasters call him "the best postseason reliever/pitcher" of all-time? To just mention a nice stat, they find attractive? It has some meaning. You throw that "chocked" sh*t around all the time with nothing to back it up. Here are Hoffman's stats for the playoffs: 1996 - 10.80 ERA, 1.2 IP 1998 - 2.79 ERA, 9.1 IP 2005 - 0.00 ERA, 1 IP 2006 - 0.00 ERA, 1 IP Man, 1 bad year, 3 good years...what a piece of sh*t. And yes, Rivera is the greatest postseason reliever ever...there is a great argument that he is the greatest regular season reliever ever as well. I'm a huge Rivera fan BTW, as we are fellow countrymen. ...ok, now, would you like to show me Rivera's #'s and tell me that that's not why Rivera is considered so much greater? Please. Certain closers are awesome under all circumstances, and some are not. Hoffman does not compare to Rivera in these types of games. Heck, just look at what he did last year in that 163rd regular season game. (doesn't get counted as a playoff game, but it should, after 162.) Speaking of Game 162, 162 was blown by him last year, as well. This comparison is a joke. ...btw, isn't this about Wagner? or are we done with him, now? As a matter of fact, it's probably a better idea to be done with this thread. Seems like I always get in trouble on this board, when I talk about closers, for some reason. Well, I was talking about Wagner and you brought up Rivera vs Hoffman, as we went off on that. And as far as saying that his postseason numbers have nothing to do with why he is considered better than Hoffman...I will quote myself two posts ago: Let me just add something about Hoffman vs Rivera. What makes Rivera better than Hoffman is not just the Postseason record, even though that is a big part of it (Rivera has pitched 117.1 innings in the postseason, while Hoffman has only pitched 13). It's because his stats are better. He has a lower Career ERA, a lower Career WHIP and a higher Save %. I did say that it was a big part of why he is considered better. But if he was better in the post season, and Hoffman was better in the other 1000 innings, it wouldn't be so clear cut. And do you know why I keep getting on you about things you say? It's because you keep throwing blanket comments on things that are wrong. You say Hoffman is a chocker in the postseason when he is average and had one bad postseason and 3 good ones. You say Wagner chokes at the end of the season when he is actually better at the end of the season. And we've already had novels worth of discussion about Gregg. Yes, I did say Hoffman was a choker in the playoffs. Closers usually get that word thrown at them, when they are very good in the regular season, and become average come playoff time, regardless of sample size. Guess you haven't heard very many analysts, in your day. As for Wagner...I already admitted this...I was wrong about his September last year. I even complimented you, and said " I trust you with those stats." What else would you like me to say? Would you like me to call you King Rabbe? Oh, and Gregg...yes, we've already had novels on all the words you've put in my mouth regarding Gregg. Lets see...the whole year, basically, I've been calling Gregg an average/replaceable closer. You're just a little mad b/c I said he's having an All-Star caliber year like 2 weeks ago. Well, 2 weeks ago it was debatable. Now, since he has 4 blown saves, and his ERA/WHIP are still not spectacular for a closer, it is no longer debatable. Get it now? You act like a child here. I made a prediction saying Gregg is making a case for the All-Star Game (2 weeks ago), and all of the sudden, when it backfires, and I complain, you go out, in full force, to call me names, b/c according to you, you thought that I thought Gregg was a very good closer...which is something, I never said. Really though...it's cute. Real cute how the people on the gamethreads get no complaints from you when Cantu hits HR's, and they compliment him, right after they finish bashing him. Why don't you complain with that? I've defended Cantu all year on this board, yet people who have said "Cantu sucks" all year, are now starting to like him...and you seem to have no problem with that. None at all. Oh...and why don't you have a problem with the people who basically bashed me when we got Jacque Jones and I said "same sh*t, different smell." Huh? Isn't that the same crap as Gregg? I made a prediction on Gregg...it turned out wrong. I made a prediction on Jones...and boy, was I right. But lets not criticize the people who complimented the Jones pickup, only to bash him when he went like 3-30 in his stint with us. Please... Before you attack me on Gregg...you should probably go back to my threads with el_penguino, and read word for word what I said. Not once did I consider Kevin Gregg a part of this team's future, and not once did I call him anything more than an average closer. I just said he was having an All-Star caliber year...2 weeks ago. Forgive me, for being wrong on a prediction. I never knew I wasn't allowed to be human. First off, Sir Rab would be fine. No need for king. As far as never giving anyone crap for bashing Cantu, I would like you to talk to PitchingWinsGames, as I have been giving him a BOATLOAD. Nor did anyone say that he sucked and then decided he was an All-star 3 games later. And as far as bashing people who were pro Jacque Jones...none of them are defending themselves. And don't go besmirching me by saying that I put words in your mouth about Gregg, because do you know what I did? I quoted you. Not out of context, but quoted entire posts. And I didn't give you crap for flopping on Gregg two weeks later, I gave you crap for going from "Superwoman" to "All-star closer" and then to "not closer material" after three appearances. And as far as his ERA/WHIP not being respectable for a closer...they are the basically the same as they were before. You know who did put words into someone else's mouth? You did, when you said that I didn't think that Rivera's postseason stats had anything to do with his status over Hoffman, when the post that you quoted said otherwise. And last off, if anyone acts like a child, it's you. Children generally don't let reality get in the way of their ideas. Children also generally start name calling when someone disagrees with them and make a point that they don't agree with. Go find all the names that I called you, because I would love to see them for the first time. In the end, I think all this hostility comes from you thinking that I dislike you and am picking on you. That's not true on either points. Me and you just have very differing thoughts on baseball and I answer your posts. And when I think you said something that is wrong, I find stats to the otherwise and correct you. Not because I want to be like "Haha, you're wrong, I'm right", but because when I am wrong about facts, I rather be corrected than stay wrong. I just assume everyone else is the same way. The rest of our conflicts come from defensiveness.
June 13, 200818 yr The left-handed closer has continued his assault on his own clubhouse, however. Wagner became agitated after the Mets lost three of four to the last- place Washington Nationals, especially Thursday's conclusion of the four-game set that saw Carlos Delgado line into a double play, with Carlos Beltran getting picked off third to end the game. Now, the lack of availability at the conclusion of games by New York's Latin players became an issue last year when then-catcher Paul Lo Duca offered out his disgust of how only a handful of players were dealing with the media after games. Said Wagner to reporters after Thursday's loss, "Can someone tell me why the (expletive) the closer's being interviewed when I didn't even play," Wagner told reporters http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform...aspx?id=4150331 This is the "leave early" incidences, and how it was becoming commonplace I was talking about, before people call me wrong... The article you read didn't give the whole story... ========== Spicing his remarks with expletives, Wagner wondered aloud why reporters were asking him questions, since he did not pitch, and not instead questioning players who did play and whose lockers were across the room. "I get it," Wagner said. "They're gone." The they, from the direction of Wagner's angry gesture, seemed to be Carlos Beltr?n, Luis Castillo and, most particularly, Carlos Delgado. Beltr?n and Castillo had indeed spoken to reporters before departing, but Delgado, who lined into a game-ending double play, had dressed and left without doing so. Wagner, it was clear, was suggesting that some Mets players are accountable, and others are not. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/sports/b...amp;oref=slogin That part I bolded is the important part of it... the writer there speculates that he was also calling out Beltran and Castillo, and while he may have, that's wrong of him, but there are some players on the Mets that aren't accountable for stuff, I have ZERO problem believing that, and I can completely understand Wagner being frustrated at such a thing Bingo. The real target of his comments was Carlos Delgado, Wagner actually called a team meeting and apologized to him for the comments as well. And yes, the Mets suck.
June 13, 200818 yr Let me just add something about Hoffman vs Rivera. What makes Rivera better than Hoffman is not just the Postseason record, even though that is a big part of it (Rivera has pitched 117.1 innings in the postseason, while Hoffman has only pitched 13). It's because his stats are better. He has a lower Career ERA, a lower Career WHIP and a higher Save %. ...and b/c he's been dominant in the playoffs, while Hoffman (small sample size, and all) has still choked every single chance he's gotten in the playoffs. Just look at the crap he did last year, trying to get his team INTO the playoffs. But no...I'm sure that has nothing to do with it. It's a little bit of everything...the fact that Rivera has been SO MUCH GREATER in the postseason though, makes him that much better. Why do you think everytime he comes out in the playoffs, broadcasters call him "the best postseason reliever/pitcher" of all-time? To just mention a nice stat, they find attractive? It has some meaning. You throw that "chocked" sh*t around all the time with nothing to back it up. Here are Hoffman's stats for the playoffs: 1996 - 10.80 ERA, 1.2 IP 1998 - 2.79 ERA, 9.1 IP 2005 - 0.00 ERA, 1 IP 2006 - 0.00 ERA, 1 IP Man, 1 bad year, 3 good years...what a piece of sh*t. And yes, Rivera is the greatest postseason reliever ever...there is a great argument that he is the greatest regular season reliever ever as well. I'm a huge Rivera fan BTW, as we are fellow countrymen. ...ok, now, would you like to show me Rivera's #'s and tell me that that's not why Rivera is considered so much greater? Please. Certain closers are awesome under all circumstances, and some are not. Hoffman does not compare to Rivera in these types of games. Heck, just look at what he did last year in that 163rd regular season game. (doesn't get counted as a playoff game, but it should, after 162.) Speaking of Game 162, 162 was blown by him last year, as well. This comparison is a joke. ...btw, isn't this about Wagner? or are we done with him, now? As a matter of fact, it's probably a better idea to be done with this thread. Seems like I always get in trouble on this board, when I talk about closers, for some reason. Well, I was talking about Wagner and you brought up Rivera vs Hoffman, as we went off on that. And as far as saying that his postseason numbers have nothing to do with why he is considered better than Hoffman...I will quote myself two posts ago: Let me just add something about Hoffman vs Rivera. What makes Rivera better than Hoffman is not just the Postseason record, even though that is a big part of it (Rivera has pitched 117.1 innings in the postseason, while Hoffman has only pitched 13). It's because his stats are better. He has a lower Career ERA, a lower Career WHIP and a higher Save %. I did say that it was a big part of why he is considered better. But if he was better in the post season, and Hoffman was better in the other 1000 innings, it wouldn't be so clear cut. And do you know why I keep getting on you about things you say? It's because you keep throwing blanket comments on things that are wrong. You say Hoffman is a chocker in the postseason when he is average and had one bad postseason and 3 good ones. You say Wagner chokes at the end of the season when he is actually better at the end of the season. And we've already had novels worth of discussion about Gregg. Yes, I did say Hoffman was a choker in the playoffs. Closers usually get that word thrown at them, when they are very good in the regular season, and become average come playoff time, regardless of sample size. Guess you haven't heard very many analysts, in your day. As for Wagner...I already admitted this...I was wrong about his September last year. I even complimented you, and said " I trust you with those stats." What else would you like me to say? Would you like me to call you King Rabbe? Oh, and Gregg...yes, we've already had novels on all the words you've put in my mouth regarding Gregg. Lets see...the whole year, basically, I've been calling Gregg an average/replaceable closer. You're just a little mad b/c I said he's having an All-Star caliber year like 2 weeks ago. Well, 2 weeks ago it was debatable. Now, since he has 4 blown saves, and his ERA/WHIP are still not spectacular for a closer, it is no longer debatable. Get it now? You act like a child here. I made a prediction saying Gregg is making a case for the All-Star Game (2 weeks ago), and all of the sudden, when it backfires, and I complain, you go out, in full force, to call me names, b/c according to you, you thought that I thought Gregg was a very good closer...which is something, I never said. Really though...it's cute. Real cute how the people on the gamethreads get no complaints from you when Cantu hits HR's, and they compliment him, right after they finish bashing him. Why don't you complain with that? I've defended Cantu all year on this board, yet people who have said "Cantu sucks" all year, are now starting to like him...and you seem to have no problem with that. None at all. Oh...and why don't you have a problem with the people who basically bashed me when we got Jacque Jones and I said "same sh*t, different smell." Huh? Isn't that the same crap as Gregg? I made a prediction on Gregg...it turned out wrong. I made a prediction on Jones...and boy, was I right. But lets not criticize the people who complimented the Jones pickup, only to bash him when he went like 3-30 in his stint with us. Please... Before you attack me on Gregg...you should probably go back to my threads with el_penguino, and read word for word what I said. Not once did I consider Kevin Gregg a part of this team's future, and not once did I call him anything more than an average closer. I just said he was having an All-Star caliber year...2 weeks ago. Forgive me, for being wrong on a prediction. I never knew I wasn't allowed to be human. First off, Sir Rab would be fine. No need for king. As far as never giving anyone crap for bashing Cantu, I would like you to talk to PitchingWinsGames, as I have been giving him a BOATLOAD. Nor did anyone say that he sucked and then decided he was an All-star 3 games later. And as far as bashing people who were pro Jacque Jones...none of them are defending themselves. And don't go besmirching me by saying that I put words in your mouth about Gregg, because do you know what I did? I quoted you. Not out of context, but quoted entire posts. And I didn't give you crap for flopping on Gregg two weeks later, I gave you crap for going from "Superwoman" to "All-star closer" and then to "not closer material" after three appearances. And as far as his ERA/WHIP not being respectable for a closer...they are the basically the same as they were before. You know who did put words into someone else's mouth? You did, when you said that I didn't think that Rivera's postseason stats had anything to do with his status over Hoffman, when the post that you quoted said otherwise. And last off, if anyone acts like a child, it's you. Children generally don't let reality get in the way of their ideas. Children also generally start name calling when someone disagrees with them and make a point that they don't agree with. Go find all the names that I called you, because I would love to see them for the first time. In the end, I think all this hostility comes from you thinking that I dislike you and am picking on you. That's not true on either points. Me and you just have very differing thoughts on baseball and I answer your posts. And when I think you said something that is wrong, I find stats to the otherwise and correct you. Not because I want to be like "Haha, you're wrong, I'm right", but because when I am wrong about facts, I rather be corrected than stay wrong. I just assume everyone else is the same way. The rest of our conflicts come from defensiveness. lol...wow...you don't get the sarcastic tone when I call the man "Superwoman?" Wow...really funny how you seem to be the ONLY PERSON with that problem. I didn't think that type of sarcasm was so difficult to notice. For the record though, he ain't no "Superman." Once again, it's funny...you pick on me for EVERY POST. Why don't you pick up on EVERY POST that miamibaseball and Retro_Marlins, for example, come up with on the gamethreads, when we're losing? Is it b/c they're more repititive than I am, or something? ...and I didn't put words into your mouth. Your quote was that Rivera>Hoffman had nothing to do with postseason stats, but more to do with the sample size of their postseason stats, and regular season stats. You then went on with these assumptions like "if Hoffman throws 1000 more innings, and goes scoreless, he is now better than Rivera" blah, blah, blah. I could easily say, if Hoffman continues at the rate he has gone in the postseason, he will always have an average 2.70 ERA (for a closer), and never reach Rivera, in career postseason milestones. See how assumptions can make you look foolish, as well? As for you, not calling me names, that is a complete lie. I remember a thread where I came up with a positive speech when the team was struggling, and all of the sudden, you came in, and said "I'd agree with you if you weren't such (I forgot the word, but it basically meant hypocrite, if I recall)", and I'm not about to go back a dozen pages to look for the thread. Pretty sure it was a postgame thread. This whole thing with you, started with Kevin Gregg, and it's a fuggin misunderstanding b/c you, "sir," are lacking reading & comprehension skills. Apparently, you read All-Star, and you assume I think a guy is great...next time, you might want to read the whole post. B/c at the end of the day, when I think Kevin Gregg, I've been mentioning the words "average" and "replaceable," basically, since the offseason. Never did I call him "Superman" for greatness, as you and the others do, everyday. When he does a good job, I compliment him (and why not?...it would make me look like a hater if I only bashed him when he blew saves.) When you learn the art of reading & comprehension, come back to me...till then, I'm not admitting crap that I was wrong regarding Gregg, b/c my opinions on him have not changed. I told you what I was wrong in (Wagner's September stats LAST YEAR)...I wasn't wrong with his postseason stats (although you never gave me credit for coming up with a stat, you just assumed it was all based on hate), and I still have my opinion that a lot of his post-game comments are wrong (which is an opinion, just like you have yours). So...goodbye, "sir."
June 13, 200818 yr Let me just add something about Hoffman vs Rivera. What makes Rivera better than Hoffman is not just the Postseason record, even though that is a big part of it (Rivera has pitched 117.1 innings in the postseason, while Hoffman has only pitched 13). It's because his stats are better. He has a lower Career ERA, a lower Career WHIP and a higher Save %. ...and b/c he's been dominant in the playoffs, while Hoffman (small sample size, and all) has still choked every single chance he's gotten in the playoffs. Just look at the crap he did last year, trying to get his team INTO the playoffs. But no...I'm sure that has nothing to do with it. It's a little bit of everything...the fact that Rivera has been SO MUCH GREATER in the postseason though, makes him that much better. Why do you think everytime he comes out in the playoffs, broadcasters call him "the best postseason reliever/pitcher" of all-time? To just mention a nice stat, they find attractive? It has some meaning. You throw that "chocked" sh*t around all the time with nothing to back it up. Here are Hoffman's stats for the playoffs: 1996 - 10.80 ERA, 1.2 IP 1998 - 2.79 ERA, 9.1 IP 2005 - 0.00 ERA, 1 IP 2006 - 0.00 ERA, 1 IP Man, 1 bad year, 3 good years...what a piece of sh*t. And yes, Rivera is the greatest postseason reliever ever...there is a great argument that he is the greatest regular season reliever ever as well. I'm a huge Rivera fan BTW, as we are fellow countrymen. ...ok, now, would you like to show me Rivera's #'s and tell me that that's not why Rivera is considered so much greater? Please. Certain closers are awesome under all circumstances, and some are not. Hoffman does not compare to Rivera in these types of games. Heck, just look at what he did last year in that 163rd regular season game. (doesn't get counted as a playoff game, but it should, after 162.) Speaking of Game 162, 162 was blown by him last year, as well. This comparison is a joke. ...btw, isn't this about Wagner? or are we done with him, now? As a matter of fact, it's probably a better idea to be done with this thread. Seems like I always get in trouble on this board, when I talk about closers, for some reason. Well, I was talking about Wagner and you brought up Rivera vs Hoffman, as we went off on that. And as far as saying that his postseason numbers have nothing to do with why he is considered better than Hoffman...I will quote myself two posts ago: Let me just add something about Hoffman vs Rivera. What makes Rivera better than Hoffman is not just the Postseason record, even though that is a big part of it (Rivera has pitched 117.1 innings in the postseason, while Hoffman has only pitched 13). It's because his stats are better. He has a lower Career ERA, a lower Career WHIP and a higher Save %. I did say that it was a big part of why he is considered better. But if he was better in the post season, and Hoffman was better in the other 1000 innings, it wouldn't be so clear cut. And do you know why I keep getting on you about things you say? It's because you keep throwing blanket comments on things that are wrong. You say Hoffman is a chocker in the postseason when he is average and had one bad postseason and 3 good ones. You say Wagner chokes at the end of the season when he is actually better at the end of the season. And we've already had novels worth of discussion about Gregg. Yes, I did say Hoffman was a choker in the playoffs. Closers usually get that word thrown at them, when they are very good in the regular season, and become average come playoff time, regardless of sample size. Guess you haven't heard very many analysts, in your day. As for Wagner...I already admitted this...I was wrong about his September last year. I even complimented you, and said " I trust you with those stats." What else would you like me to say? Would you like me to call you King Rabbe? Oh, and Gregg...yes, we've already had novels on all the words you've put in my mouth regarding Gregg. Lets see...the whole year, basically, I've been calling Gregg an average/replaceable closer. You're just a little mad b/c I said he's having an All-Star caliber year like 2 weeks ago. Well, 2 weeks ago it was debatable. Now, since he has 4 blown saves, and his ERA/WHIP are still not spectacular for a closer, it is no longer debatable. Get it now? You act like a child here. I made a prediction saying Gregg is making a case for the All-Star Game (2 weeks ago), and all of the sudden, when it backfires, and I complain, you go out, in full force, to call me names, b/c according to you, you thought that I thought Gregg was a very good closer...which is something, I never said. Really though...it's cute. Real cute how the people on the gamethreads get no complaints from you when Cantu hits HR's, and they compliment him, right after they finish bashing him. Why don't you complain with that? I've defended Cantu all year on this board, yet people who have said "Cantu sucks" all year, are now starting to like him...and you seem to have no problem with that. None at all. Oh...and why don't you have a problem with the people who basically bashed me when we got Jacque Jones and I said "same sh*t, different smell." Huh? Isn't that the same crap as Gregg? I made a prediction on Gregg...it turned out wrong. I made a prediction on Jones...and boy, was I right. But lets not criticize the people who complimented the Jones pickup, only to bash him when he went like 3-30 in his stint with us. Please... Before you attack me on Gregg...you should probably go back to my threads with el_penguino, and read word for word what I said. Not once did I consider Kevin Gregg a part of this team's future, and not once did I call him anything more than an average closer. I just said he was having an All-Star caliber year...2 weeks ago. Forgive me, for being wrong on a prediction. I never knew I wasn't allowed to be human. First off, Sir Rab would be fine. No need for king. As far as never giving anyone crap for bashing Cantu, I would like you to talk to PitchingWinsGames, as I have been giving him a BOATLOAD. Nor did anyone say that he sucked and then decided he was an All-star 3 games later. And as far as bashing people who were pro Jacque Jones...none of them are defending themselves. And don't go besmirching me by saying that I put words in your mouth about Gregg, because do you know what I did? I quoted you. Not out of context, but quoted entire posts. And I didn't give you crap for flopping on Gregg two weeks later, I gave you crap for going from "Superwoman" to "All-star closer" and then to "not closer material" after three appearances. And as far as his ERA/WHIP not being respectable for a closer...they are the basically the same as they were before. You know who did put words into someone else's mouth? You did, when you said that I didn't think that Rivera's postseason stats had anything to do with his status over Hoffman, when the post that you quoted said otherwise. And last off, if anyone acts like a child, it's you. Children generally don't let reality get in the way of their ideas. Children also generally start name calling when someone disagrees with them and make a point that they don't agree with. Go find all the names that I called you, because I would love to see them for the first time. In the end, I think all this hostility comes from you thinking that I dislike you and am picking on you. That's not true on either points. Me and you just have very differing thoughts on baseball and I answer your posts. And when I think you said something that is wrong, I find stats to the otherwise and correct you. Not because I want to be like "Haha, you're wrong, I'm right", but because when I am wrong about facts, I rather be corrected than stay wrong. I just assume everyone else is the same way. The rest of our conflicts come from defensiveness. lol...wow...you don't get the sarcastic tone when I call the man "Superwoman?" Wow...really funny how you seem to be the ONLY PERSON with that problem. I didn't think that type of sarcasm was so difficult to notice. For the record though, he ain't no "Superman." Once again, it's funny...you pick on me for EVERY POST. Why don't you pick up on EVERY POST that miamibaseball and Retro_Marlins, for example, come up with on the gamethreads, when we're losing? Is it b/c they're more repititive than I am, or something? ...and I didn't put words into your mouth. Your quote was that Rivera>Hoffman had nothing to do with postseason stats, but more to do with the sample size of their postseason stats, and regular season stats. You then went on with these assumptions like "if Hoffman throws 1000 more innings, and goes scoreless, he is now better than Rivera" blah, blah, blah. I could easily say, if Hoffman continues at the rate he has gone in the postseason, he will always have an average 2.70 ERA (for a closer), and never reach Rivera, in career postseason milestones. See how assumptions can make you look foolish, as well? As for you, not calling me names, that is a complete lie. I remember a thread where I came up with a positive speech when the team was struggling, and all of the sudden, you came in, and said "I'd agree with you if you weren't such (I forgot the word, but it basically meant hypocrite, if I recall)", and I'm not about to go back a dozen pages to look for the thread. Pretty sure it was a postgame thread. This whole thing with you, started with Kevin Gregg, and it's a fuggin misunderstanding b/c you, "sir," are lacking reading & comprehension skills. Apparently, you read All-Star, and you assume I think a guy is great...next time, you might want to read the whole post. B/c at the end of the day, when I think Kevin Gregg, I've been mentioning the words "average" and "replaceable," basically, since the offseason. Never did I call him "Superman" for greatness, as you and the others do, everyday. When he does a good job, I compliment him (and why not?...it would make me look like a hater if I only bashed him when he blew saves.) When you learn the art of reading & comprehension, come back to me...till then, I'm not admitting crap that I was wrong regarding Gregg, b/c my opinions on him have not changed. I told you what I was wrong in (Wagner's September stats LAST YEAR)...I wasn't wrong with his postseason stats (although you never gave me credit for coming up with a stat, you just assumed it was all based on hate), and I still have my opinion that a lot of his post-game comments are wrong (which is an opinion, just like you have yours). So...goodbye, "sir." PM. For the record, I didn't say any of this: ...and I didn't put words into your mouth. Your quote was that Rivera>Hoffman had nothing to do with postseason stats, but more to do with the sample size of their postseason stats, and regular season stats. You then went on with these assumptions like "if Hoffman throws 1000 more innings, and goes scoreless, he is now better than Rivera" blah, blah, blah. I could easily say, if Hoffman continues at the rate he has gone in the postseason, he will always have an average 2.70 ERA (for a closer), and never reach Rivera, in career postseason milestones. See how assumptions can make you look foolish, as well?
June 13, 200818 yr funny...you ask for "PM", and then edit your post, to tell me you didn't say any of what I wrote (which basically, you did, but it's ok)... "But if he was better in the post season, and Hoffman was better in the other 1000 innings, it wouldn't be so clear cut." (That would be your quote...)...an assumption. The fact the statement even says "if" and then you comeback with "1000" (lots of innings), shows you it is not a fact, which makes it pointless...considering you only dish out the "facts." "Not because I want to be like "Haha, you're wrong, I'm right", but because when I am wrong about facts, I rather be corrected than stay wrong. I just assume everyone else is the same way. The rest of our conflicts come from defensiveness." (another one of your quotes) Which regarding Hoffman/Rivera, you're not giving me "facts" with your statement up top, but more of an assumption, with the whole "if Hoffman had the chance to do this, and did it" factor...
June 13, 200818 yr funny...you ask for "PM", and then edit your post, to tell me you didn't say any of what I wrote (which basically, you did, but it's ok)... "But if he was better in the post season, and Hoffman was better in the other 1000 innings, it wouldn't be so clear cut." (That would be your quote...)...an assumption. The fact the statement even says "if" and then you comeback with "1000" (lots of innings), shows you it is not a fact, which makes it pointless...considering you only dish out the "facts." "Not because I want to be like "Haha, you're wrong, I'm right", but because when I am wrong about facts, I rather be corrected than stay wrong. I just assume everyone else is the same way. The rest of our conflicts come from defensiveness." (another one of your quotes) Which regarding Hoffman/Rivera, you're not giving me "facts" with your statement up top, but more of an assumption, with the whole "if Hoffman had the chance to do this, and did it" factor... In the first quote, "he" was Rivera, not Hoffman. Also, I am saying that if Hoffman was better in the regular season and Rivera was better in the postseason, it would be less clear cut who was better. But since Rivera was better in both, that's why he is the better pitcher. You just misunderstood what I said. Also, did you get my PM?
June 13, 200818 yr funny...you ask for "PM", and then edit your post, to tell me you didn't say any of what I wrote (which basically, you did, but it's ok)... "But if he was better in the post season, and Hoffman was better in the other 1000 innings, it wouldn't be so clear cut." (That would be your quote...)...an assumption. The fact the statement even says "if" and then you comeback with "1000" (lots of innings), shows you it is not a fact, which makes it pointless...considering you only dish out the "facts." "Not because I want to be like "Haha, you're wrong, I'm right", but because when I am wrong about facts, I rather be corrected than stay wrong. I just assume everyone else is the same way. The rest of our conflicts come from defensiveness." (another one of your quotes) Which regarding Hoffman/Rivera, you're not giving me "facts" with your statement up top, but more of an assumption, with the whole "if Hoffman had the chance to do this, and did it" factor... In the first quote, "he" was Rivera, not Hoffman. Also, I am saying that if Hoffman was better in the regular season and Rivera was better in the postseason, it would be less clear cut who was better. But since Rivera was better in both, that's why he is the better pitcher. You just misunderstood what I said. Also, did you get my PM? Yeah, I just responded, b/c I feel you have misunderstood me, at times, as well.
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