August 30, 200817 yr Politico.com Scholars question Palin credentials By FRED BARBASH & DAVID MARK | 8/30/08 11:24 AM EST John McCain was aiming to make history with his pick of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, and historians say he succeeded. Presidential scholars say she appears to be the least experienced, least credentialed person to join a major-party ticket in the modern era. So unconventional was McCain?s choice that it left students of the presidency literally ?stunned,? in the words of Joel Goldstein, a St. Louis University law professor and scholar of the vice presidency. ?Being governor of a small state for less than two years is not consistent with the normal criteria for determining who?s of presidential caliber,? said Goldstein. ?I think she is the most inexperienced person on a major party ticket in modern history,? said presidential historian Matthew Dallek. That includes Spiro T. Agnew, Richard Nixon?s first vice president, who was governor of a medium-sized state, Maryland, for two years, and before that, executive of suburban Baltimore County, the expansive jurisdiction that borders and exceeds in population the city of Baltimore. It also includes George H.W. Bush?s vice president, Indiana Sen. Dan Quayle, who had served in the House and Senate for 12 years before taking office. And it also includes New York Rep. Geraldine Ferraro, who served three terms in the House before Walter Mondale chose her in 1984 as the first woman candidate on a major party ticket. ?It would be one thing if she had only been governor for a year and a half, but prior to that she had not had major experience in public life,? said Dallek of Palin. ?The fact that he would have to go to somebody who is clearly unqualified to be president makes Obama look like an elder statesman.? And Alaska is a much smaller state than Illinois, the political base of Barack Obama, whom Republicans have repeatedly criticized for being inexperienced, having served nearly four years in the U.S. Senate after eight in the Illinois state Senate. ?Not to belittle Alaska, but it?s different than the basket of issues you deal with in big, dynamic states.? Dallek said. Palin has no experience in national office. Before becoming governor in December 2006, she served as a council member and mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, which had a population of slightly more than 5,000 during her time in office. In choosing Palin as his running mate, McCain has reached back to a time when few actually seriously contended that the vice president should be demonstrably prepared to assume the presidency from day one. If elected vice president, Palin would appear to have the least amount of experience in federal office or as a governor since John W. Kern, Democrat William Jennings Bryan?s 1908 running mate, who had served for four years in the Indiana state Senate and then four more as city solicitor of Indianapolis. The Democratic ticket lost to Republican standard bearer William Howard Taft and running mate James S. Sherman by an Electoral College spread of 321-162. More conventionally in modern times, running mates could boast decades of experience in Washington, from ballot box winners like Dick Cheney, Al Gore, the elder Bush and Mondale to also-rans such as Jack Kemp, Lloyd Bentsen and Joseph I. Lieberman. These super-credentialed candidates were sometimes chosen, like Joe Biden, to shore up the resumes of candidates with little or no time in Washington, such as Jimmy Carter (Mondale) Bill Clinton (Gore) and Michael Dukakis (Bentsen.) Palin, on the other hand, is a total ?wild card,? said Stanford historian David Kennedy. ?If she had been around for two terms as governor ? or been a senator ? it would have been an incredible choice,? said historian Doris Kearns Goodwin. ?Who else could he have found who appealed to the conservative base ? and as someone who was a reformer?? That?s not to say Palin will be a dud on the campaign trail. But out-of-the-box picks in recent years have not usually worked out too well for the top of the ticket. Consider independent candidate Ross Perot?s 1992 running mate, former Navy Adm. James Stockdale, who famously asked at the vice presidential debate with Gore and Quayle, ?Who am I, why am I here?? ?He took the wind out of Perot?s sails, and Perot could have done even better? than the 19 percent he garnered, Dallek said. A bad running mate pick can even put a successful presidential ticket in question. The 1988 Bush-Quayle victory over Dukakis and Bentsen came in spite of Quayle?s frequent campaign trail gaffes and questions about his military service in the Vietnam era and other controversies. Bush handlers largely relegated Quayle to small town audiences that would attract little media attention. ?Quayle ? it threw off the momentum for some weeks,? said Goodwin. ?One has to hope for McCain?s sake that [Palin] has been fully vetted.? ?The first thing that hits me,? said Stephen Hess of the Brookings Institution," is that it suggests that John McCain is a gambler. This is a high roller decision.? ?The next thing you have to ask yourself: Is it worrisome to have a gambler in the Oval Office? That?s an important question," he said, ?perhaps more important than anything else today.? Link That didn't take long.
August 30, 200817 yr cool. That means she is clearly a Washington Outsider who is going to be bring change and hope! roar!
August 30, 200817 yr Author cool. That means she is clearly a Washington Outsider who is going to be bring change and hope! roar! It actually means that pretty much anyone else on this board can now strive to be Vice President. :mis2
August 30, 200817 yr A laughably inexperienced republican VP nominee and a laughably inexperienced democratic presidential nominee. Its the year of people who have no business being in the positions they are in!
August 30, 200817 yr cool. That means she is clearly a Washington Outsider who is going to be bring change and hope! roar! It actually means that pretty much anyone else on this board can now strive to be Vice President. :mis2 Hey, if it works for Obama....
August 30, 200817 yr I believe Mccain thought he was going to steal the Hilary supporters, but only 10-11% of Hilary supporters said they will vote for Mccain now, probably a large majority of people will change there votes because they do not want an inexperienced VP with an old President who might die and the inexperienced VP will be left to lead the country. Very bad choice by McCain,
August 30, 200817 yr sure, either way nothing is changing. It will just be 8 years of time filler. We are not leaving Iraq, there is no way out within at least the next 2 years. We are most likely stuck there for a while. At least with Obama we are not going to have a draft,
August 30, 200817 yr Again, Obama decided to run for president with essentially just his state Senate and preceeding experiences on his resume. He is still completing his first US Senate term, where he has spent the vast majority of his time campaigning. If you want to call Palin inexperienced (and consequently unfit for office) go right ahead, but you must be prepared to say the exact same thing about Obama under any circumstances. Based solely on the issue of experience, either they are both fit for office or neither are. :lol Not saying Obama is "experienced", but to say Obama and Palin are equally experienced is laughable. Obama clearly has more credentials under his belt. Obama: First black president of the Harvard Law Review Palin: First runner-up Miss Alaska beauty pageant in 1984 Obama: Graduate of Columbia U, and Harvard Law School; Palin: Journalism Degree from the prestigious University of Idaho Obama: Community organizer & Civil Rights attorney in Chicago, Constitutional Law professor U of Chicago Palin: Sports reporter at an Anchorage TV station Obama: Illinois State Senator (1997-2004) Palin: Member of Wasilla, AK City Council (1992-1996), Mayor of Wasilla (pop. 8,471) 1996-2002 Obama: United States Senator (2004-present) Palin: Governor of 3rd least-populated State in Union (2006-present)
August 30, 200817 yr The possibilities of a draft are equally likely under both potential administrations. If anything the edge goes to Obama. In their pasts, Obama and Biden, while never calling for a traditional military draft, have expressed interest in mandatory conscription for "national service." Of course this does not equate to military service, but let's not forget that the foreign policy between both candidates is virtually the same. This does not sit well with strict Constitutionalists or civil libertarians. I also thought that there were enough people volunteering that we wouldn't need a draft. Now i here from McCain that he wants a draft, what happened? Why is there such a need to make the army larger?
August 30, 200817 yr Again, Obama decided to run for president with essentially just his state Senate and preceeding experiences on his resume. He is still completing his first US Senate term, where he has spent the vast majority of his time campaigning. If you want to call Palin inexperienced (and consequently unfit for office) go right ahead, but you must be prepared to say the exact same thing about Obama under any circumstances. Based solely on the issue of experience, either they are both fit for office or neither are. :lol Not saying Obama is "experienced", but to say Obama and Palin are equally experienced is laughable. Obama clearly has more credentials under his belt. Obama: First black president of the Harvard Law Review Palin: First runner-up Miss Alaska beauty pageant in 1984 Obama: Graduate of Columbia U, and Harvard Law School; Palin: Journalism Degree from the prestigious University of Idaho Obama: Community organizer & Civil Rights attorney in Chicago, Constitutional Law professor U of Chicago Palin: Sports reporter at an Anchorage TV station Obama: Illinois State Senator (1997-2004) Palin: Member of Wasilla, AK City Council (1992-1996), Mayor of Wasilla (pop. 8,471) 1996-2002 Obama: United States Senator (2004-present) Palin: Governor of 3rd least-populated State in Union (2006-present) Even though I agree with u, I feel the Miss Alaska beauty pageant argument is getting old, just like the # of McCain's houses.
August 31, 200817 yr Author Obama still has plenty more experience than Palin, plus he has worked the ground level helping people to recover from economic turmoil. I'm not entirely sure that Palin even expected to be chosen for this position anyway. She hasn't laid out her positions, and Time magazine recently concluded for an article on her that she has no discernible foreign policy positions or experience (except she once said something about we needed to get out of Iraq eventually). I strongly disagree that a draft is more likely under an Obama administration. There is no evidence to support this, except your deluded belief, penguino, that McCain and Obama have 'identical' foreign policy positions, when this is not the case either. As I have argued before, Obama's support of AIPAC positions does not mean it is more likely we are going into Iran. If anything McCain's rhetoric against Iran makes me a lot more nervous that he will send us to war with the Iranians within a few months of inauguration.
August 31, 200817 yr I disagree with your last statement in this case simply because Obama was a state senator of a huge state with complex problems. Alaska has a population of roughly 600K, no state income tax, no corporate tax, and gets so much revenue from oil companies that each person gets about $8K per year from the government. In other words, it is a small state, with virtually no real serious issues, and balancing the budget is a piece of cake. Actually, Obama's state senate district has over 1/3 of the population of the entire state of Alaska. Illinois has a population of about 12.832 million (see http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/17000.html) and 59 senate districts (see http://www.ilga.gov/senate/). That means that each senate district has about 220K people, more than 1/3 of the population of the state of Alaska. Clearly, Obama was dealing with much more complex issues in Illinois than Alaska. Being governor of Alaska is like being mayor of a very small city with virtually no challenging problems. I think his work as a state senator was more challenging than her work as governor. In any case, he was a state senator for 8 years and then 4 years in the US Senate. Contrary to your statements, he did not start his campaign until January 2007, meaning he had a full two years in the US Senate before he started running. And regardless of what anyone tells me, Obama is far superior intellectually. I'm sorry, but it's not even close. Either you're blind or you're an idiot if you don't see the difference.
August 31, 200817 yr and Time magazine recently concluded for an article on her that she has no discernible foreign policy positions or experience Kind of like Obama.
August 31, 200817 yr Actually, just to be clear, I wasn't referring to you with that statement. I don't recall you making a statement either way about the issue I was referring to. If I am not mistaken, you basically said you did not want to give an opinion because you do not have enough information to make an informed conclusion. Now, to respond to some of your arguments. First, I think it is ridiculous to think that executive experience is the same regardless of the size of the political entity. Do you meant to tell me with a straight face that being governor, for example, of California is the same as being governor of Alaska? But, having said that, I think you're right: the Obama campaign should not focus on Palin's relative inexperience because they really have no room to make that kind of argument. It's better to simply ignore that issue altogether and focus on better arguments. In essence, McCain just castrated himself by choosing Palin... he can't make the "experience" argument any longer. Having taken that argument off the table, the campaign will focus more on the issues. In other words, this becomes a more "generic" election, and on that ground, a democrat should win easily given the political atmosphere.
August 31, 200817 yr cool. That means she is clearly a Washington Outsider who is going to be bring change and hope! roar! It actually means that pretty much anyone else on this board can now strive to be Vice President. :mis2 So everyone on this board has been elected as the governor of a US state where she frequently had an approval rating of 90% and where the majority of that state's residents rated her performance as excellent and before that was a city council member, mayor and a major player in the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission?
August 31, 200817 yr cool. That means she is clearly a Washington Outsider who is going to be bring change and hope! roar! It actually means that pretty much anyone else on this board can now strive to be Vice President. :mis2 So everyone on this board has been elected as the governor of a US state where she frequently had an approval rating of 90% and where the majority of that state's residents rated her performance as excellent and before that was a city council member, mayor and a major player in the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission? No, I think it means everyone on this board was at one time runner up in a beauty pageant.
August 31, 200817 yr Well, despite the attempts to plant misgivings, it's created a nice bounce so far. Latest Zogby poll: McCain/Palin 47%, Obama/Biden 45% EDIT: Zogby back up, link to the above here. In the same article, Zogby shows that more people thought Palin helped McCain than thought Biden helped Obama, but more thought she'd hurt him too. 53% said she'd help, 29% said she'd hurt. 43% think Biden will help, 22% think Biden will hurt. Zogby didn't take polling during the DNC (at least, that is freely available). Obama led 46-44 head-to-head with McCain when Biden was announced.
August 31, 200817 yr Well, despite the attempts to plant misgivings, it's created a nice bounce so far. Latest Zogby poll: McCain/Palin 47%, Obama/Biden 45% Unfortunately, Zogby appears to be down at the moment, or I'd look to see what their numbers post-DNC have been. It wouldn't be fair comparing it to the Gallup numbers. :mischief I'm still not convinced that the VP makes that much of a difference. Obama has been dipping in the polls for a couple of weeks. You'd have to expect some sort of surge after his appearance in Denver. I have a feeling that a lot of people bought into the Clintons' game as well. I have edited my post, as Zogby returned. To repeat on any "bump", Obama led H2H 46-44 when Biden was announced. Zogby doesn't have any polling data during the DNC itself (at least that's freely available, and I'm not spending $100 to find out if they have any for sure).
August 31, 200817 yr Zogby sucks. One of the worst pollsters. Gallup Daily Tracking has Obama up 49-41. They're not great, either, but better than Zogby.
August 31, 200817 yr However, it does hurt Obama that he is running for the position of commander and chief. Actually, he's running for the position of commander-in-chief. I stumped the schwab! :arms
August 31, 200817 yr Author Yeah, Zogby said Kerry was going to win in 2004. How did that turn out? Although I just watched an HBO documentary discussing the massive problems in Ohio in 2004, and how easily voting results can be changed on Diebold machines without leaving a trace.
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