Jorge Cantu, Gaby Sanchez, Dallas McPherson, Wes Helms

+ guys like Bonifacio & Amezaga who could play some corner infield in case of an emergency.

 

I, mean...there's no way we stay with all these corner infielders, right? I wish I knew Admin Beinfest...first question I'd ask him would be: "Why did you bring Wes Helms back?" ...the 2nd one would be..."was it necessary to give him not one, but TWO, years? :confused

If I was a betting man, I'd say Dallas will probably be the one to go.

If I was a betting man, I'd say Dallas will probably be the one to go.

 

 

And we get what for him?

Would've been smart to just let the one with the least amount of potential (Helms) go...and sign another "veteran leader" that would actually fill a team need. Like...a catcher. Like...a backup left-handed hitting outfielder!

 

We could've had a situation playing Cantu, Sanchez, & McPherson (platoon situations) & later dealing them at their highest value.

Well I wish I knew what Beinfest has in mind concerning this issue, but I have enough faith in him to believe he knows what he is doing.

Well I wish I knew what Beinfest has in mind concerning this issue, but I have enough faith in him to believe he knows what he is doing.

 

 

I have faith in him, but as of right now...in the words of Ricky Ricardo: "he's got some 'splaining to do!"

yes, there will be another move. it may not be a big one though.

We've been over this a million times already. Unless Cantu or Dallas can play some LF, they pretty much have to jettison one of them and go after a left handed 1B/LF to replace that spot on the 25 man. Of course you nailed it, why did they sign Helms instead of getting a 1B/LF with that slot, but we're stuck now so just have to configure the roster around that. Stupid move.

 

They'll bring in a catcher. I suspect they will wait another month and lowball Pudge. If not, offer at least 2 milb deals to veterans and see if they can strike gold.

 

They will bring in some maybe starting pitchers on milb contracts, if they don't go after a Hendrickson type (i.e. Pavano) for the last pen spot.

 

They will have to DFA or trade a few of Andino, Kensing, Cruz, J. Delgado, Meyer, and Kroenke. Only 2-3 of them can make the roster so something has got to give.

If I was a betting man, I'd say Dallas will probably be the one to go.

 

 

And we get what for him?

Would've been smart to just let the one with the least amount of potential (Helms) go...and sign another "veteran leader" that would actually fill a team need. Like...a catcher. Like...a backup left-handed hitting outfielder!

 

We could've had a situation playing Cantu, Sanchez, & McPherson (platoon situations) & later dealing them at their highest value.

 

I have to agree with gizmo. The silence regarding Dallas has been deafening. Even looking back to the late call up last year and the lack of ABs. I just think the organization has issues with him.

As convenient as it is to underestimate the veteran leadership thing (which is not the same as being the leader) obviously the front office and most of baseball feels differently on the subject. I've posted Gaby Sanchez' view as a rookie coming up before I don't think I need to do it again, one might want to reconsider the value of a Helms in light of it and the comments of others. At least this season the FO pared the group down to one, for those who don't find value in Helms being part of the team you should be pleased there isn't a contingent like 2008.

 

As for McPherson, I don't think it's necessarily an "issues with him" problem so much as the reality that he hit a wall part way through last season and was exhausted by the time he made it here so the front office has no choice but to wait until spring training to see how he looks and then make a decision. He's also not the worst insurance policy. There is another side to the coin with DMcP and that is they did tender him a contract, they haven't mentioned him publicly in trade talks, it's not all bad.

Helms plays above average defense at 3B, something Cantu and D-Mac do not do. He was very good off the bench last season, is good with runners on base, etc.. As a bonus, there are the intangible "clubhouse morale" and "veteran leadership" things which may, or may not, add value. I love him as a player, and loved the signing.

 

Cantu and D-Mac both strike out a lot and play below average defense- something we all know the Marlins are trying to avoid. I'd like to see Cantu moved with his value high because of his defense, but I also wouldn't feel comfortable losing his bat at the moment without a more trustworthy replacement lined up. Then again, of D-Mac, Helms, Bonifacio, Andino and Coghlan, one of them would hopefully hit well enough in ST to win the job and be productive there with the bat.

Helms plays above average defense at 3B, something Cantu and D-Mac do not do. He was very good off the bench last season, is good with runners on base, etc.. As a bonus, there are the intangible "clubhouse morale" and "veteran leadership" things which may, or may not, add value. I love him as a player, and loved the signing.

 

Cantu and D-Mac both strike out a lot and play below average defense- something we all know the Marlins are trying to avoid. I'd like to see Cantu moved with his value high because of his defense, but I also wouldn't feel comfortable losing his bat at the moment without a more trustworthy replacement lined up. Then again, of D-Mac, Helms, Bonifacio, Andino and Coghlan, one of them would hopefully hit well enough in ST to win the job and be productive there with the bat.

 

 

"D-Mac" is projected to be an average defensive 3B. Not "below average" really.

 

As for Helms, he absolutely sucks against right handed pitching. He's nothing more than a platoon option if he starts...and to be honest, he struggled against lefties last year, too. It was an unnecessary signing, and you know it was unnecessary when the best thing we can come up with is..."he's a veteran leader."

 

You sign "veteran leaders" who could actually fill a need on the team. Helms doesn't do that. Out of the 5 guys you mentioned in your list...none of those guys are full-time starters. The only one who should be considered is McPherson...and he, too, is a platoon player, due to his struggles against left-handed pitching.

 

The Marlins could've platooned D-Mac/Cantu at 3B and Cantu/Sanchez at 1B and gotten some damn good offensive production. Now that Helms signed for 2 years...I'm pretty sure he's going to get some good playing time, and that is a downgrade to what "could have been." I'm hoping the Giants still want to make that Cantu-Sanchez trade now, and we just go with Gaby at 1B and McPherson/Helms platoon at 3B. Again...I highly doubt with the contract the Marlins gave Helms (something they usually don't do)...that Helms is just going to sit on the bench and play "veteran leader." He's going to get a spot platooning...unnecessary spot, but most likely realistic.

i think the helms signing boiled down to money.

 

he had like a 900K buyout left over from the phillies contract, and we got him for that plus about nimum for 2 years.

 

not bad for a vet who can still play a little bit.

 

(ducks bullets...........)

Helms plays above average defense at 3B, something Cantu and D-Mac do not do. He was very good off the bench last season, is good with runners on base, etc.. As a bonus, there are the intangible "clubhouse morale" and "veteran leadership" things which may, or may not, add value. I love him as a player, and loved the signing.

 

Cantu and D-Mac both strike out a lot and play below average defense- something we all know the Marlins are trying to avoid. I'd like to see Cantu moved with his value high because of his defense, but I also wouldn't feel comfortable losing his bat at the moment without a more trustworthy replacement lined up. Then again, of D-Mac, Helms, Bonifacio, Andino and Coghlan, one of them would hopefully hit well enough in ST to win the job and be productive there with the bat.

 

 

"D-Mac" is projected to be an average defensive 3B. Not "below average" really.

 

As for Helms, he absolutely sucks against right handed pitching. He's nothing more than a platoon option if he starts...and to be honest, he struggled against lefties last year, too. It was an unnecessary signing, and you know it was unnecessary when the best thing we can come up with is..."he's a veteran leader."

 

You sign "veteran leaders" who could actually fill a need on the team. Helms doesn't do that. Out of the 5 guys you mentioned in your list...none of those guys are full-time starters. The only one who should be considered is McPherson...and he, too, is a platoon player, due to his struggles against left-handed pitching.

 

The Marlins could've platooned D-Mac/Cantu at 3B and Cantu/Sanchez at 1B and gotten some damn good offensive production. Now that Helms signed for 2 years...I'm pretty sure he's going to get some good playing time, and that is a downgrade to what "could have been." I'm hoping the Giants still want to make that Cantu-Sanchez trade now, and we just go with Gaby at 1B and McPherson/Helms platoon at 3B. Again...I highly doubt with the contract the Marlins gave Helms (something they usually don't do)...that Helms is just going to sit on the bench and play "veteran leader." He's going to get a spot platooning...unnecessary spot, but most likely realistic.

Well, I can't speak to DMac's defense, but from what I've heard, he isn't exactly Brooks over there- can't be worse than Cantu though.

 

Helms has good PH numbers and good RISP numbers last season, and was a stud at 3B defensively whenever he came in. So "the best thing we can come up with" is not "he's a veteran leader." He's a great option off the bench/defensive replacement.

 

I don't see a platoon like that happening- I'd think whoever wins the job is going to play every day, for the most part. That's usually how it is.

 

Also, I think it's unfair to say none of those five are full-time starters. The Marlins work on the assumption that it's an open competition and whoever wins the job and performs gets to play. Didn't Alejandro De Aza win a vacant CF job a couple years ago and perform pretty well in limited time- and who was he? McPherson, Bonifacio, Coghlan and even Andino were all, at the very least, fairly decent, prospects, and a strong performance in ST will win them the 3B job in a Cantu-less world. That's how a FA signee, Cantu, won the job a year ago, remember.

If the FO was talking about bringing in a guy just for "veteran leadership then I would be a bit worried. But with Helms, he is obviously doing something to affect this team that we aren't able to see as mere spectators. We've done a lot better with him the two years he's been here than the one year he wasn't.