Posted February 13, 200916 yr The level baseball has sunk to makes me sick. I don't think there is any question this is the lowest point in the history of the game. It seems evident to me that the man who has presided over the corruption of the game needs to go. Bud Selig should not be the commissioner of this game. Selig has no interest in cleaning up the game unless his hand is forced to. If he wanted to clean up the game, he would have done unannounced leaguewide steroid tests years ago and reported the results. Not do anonymous tests that report what he already knew - the game has (and I think still does) have a problem with steroids. The latest bit of gamesmanship on Selig's part makes me sick. This man turned a blind eye to steroid abuse in the game AT BEST for years. At worst, he encouraged the abuse. History has proven he covers up abuse when it suits the interest of MLB and the owners. When his hand is forced, he makes a show at caring and you see token players like Guillermo Mota getting suspended for steroid abuse. And now he is going after A-Rod to deflect attention from himself? How low can you go, Mr. Selig? I ask you this - doesn't it stand to reason some of the highest performing players would be suspended for steroid abuse rather than some random scrubs? Wouldn't you think so in light of the fact the so-called greatest player in the game is an admitted roider? It is a mystery. But one thing is not a mystery. If there is going to be integrity and clean play in this game, Bud Selig needs to be sent packing.
February 13, 200916 yr I don't think there is any question this is the lowest point in the history of the game. Black Sox.
February 13, 200916 yr I don't think there is any question this is the lowest point in the history of the game. Black Sox. Or 1994.
February 13, 200916 yr I don't think there is any question this is the lowest point in the history of the game. Black Sox. Or 1994. That was worse than this but not as bad as 1919.
February 13, 200916 yr Author I don't think there is any question this is the lowest point in the history of the game. Black Sox. Or 1994. That was worse than this but not as bad as 1919. Neither of these were as bad. Admittedly, throwing the series is about as low as it goes. But we are talking about a select group of players involved in the scandal. We are not talking about a select group here. A culture of steroid abuse took root leaguewide and flourished under Selig's watch. It brings into question every record set under his regime, every hit, every strikeout. At no time in the history of the game could you say that. The whole integrity of everything done on the field is now under question. It can get worse than that, but I don't see it being worse at any other point in the history of the game.
February 13, 200916 yr I don't agree with this thread at all. The number of steroid users post-2004 (which was when steroids were officially banned in baseball) is significantly down from the late-90s early 2000s, which was pretty much the heyday of the steroid era. He might have been a little late in doing so, but at least he has made a pretty solid attempt to fix the problem, and it seems to be working. Better late than never. Also, the Marlins could easily have zero rings if not for Selig.
February 13, 200916 yr Author I don't agree with this thread at all. The number of steroid users post-2004 (which was when steroids were officially banned in baseball) is significantly down from the late-90s early 2000s, which was pretty much the heyday of the steroid era. What is the basis for this statement? Where do you get your numbers for steroid users pre-2004 and post-2004? I ask because I really want to know.
February 13, 200916 yr I don't agree with this thread at all. The number of steroid users post-2004 (which was when steroids were officially banned in baseball) is significantly down from the late-90s early 2000s, which was pretty much the heyday of the steroid era. What is the basis for this statement? Where do you get your numbers for steroid users pre-2004 and post-2004? I ask because I really want to know. Only 21 players have tested positive for steroids since 2004.
February 13, 200916 yr Author I don't agree with this thread at all. The number of steroid users post-2004 (which was when steroids were officially banned in baseball) is significantly down from the late-90s early 2000s, which was pretty much the heyday of the steroid era. What is the basis for this statement? Where do you get your numbers for steroid users pre-2004 and post-2004? I ask because I really want to know. Only 21 players have tested positive for steroids since 2004. That proves nothing to me. Who was the commissioner of baseball when these tests were conducted? The same man under whom steroid abuse has flourished! Hell, in the A-Rod article it was revealed that Gene Orza told A-Rod a steroid test was coming in 2004. How do you think Orza got that information? It wasn't the player's union conducting steroid tests. It was MLB. So if Orza got the info on the upcoming test, it was from someone in MLB. Given the past steroid abuse under Selig and how he handled it, I am somewhat suspicious about how Orza got this information. My guess is that many other stars of the game got this info and it wasn't unintentional. Many owner's pocketbooks would be damaged if their stars tested positive for steroids and if there is one thing Selig does well, it is representing the interests of the owners.
February 13, 200916 yr That proves nothing to me. Who was the commissioner of baseball when these tests were conducted? The same man under whom steroid abuse has flourished! Hell, in the A-Rod article it was revealed that Gene Orza told A-Rod a steroid test was coming in 2004. How do you think Orza got that information? It wasn't the player's union conducting steroid tests. It was MLB. So if Orza got the info on the upcoming test, it was from someone in MLB. Given the past steroid abuse under Selig and how he handled it, I am somewhat suspicious about how Orza got this information. My guess is that many other stars of the game got this info and it wasn't unintentional. Many owner's pocketbooks would be damaged if their stars tested positive for steroids and if there is one thing Selig does well, it is representing the interests of the owners. That's all speculation though. You don't know the story behind it, you're just making assumptions and blaming him for it. The point is, he has done a good job in the reduction of steroid use in the game from 2004-present. If this thread were made several years ago, it would have validity.
February 13, 200916 yr I don't think there is any question this is the lowest point in the history of the game. Black Sox. Or 1994. That was worse than this but not as bad as 1919. Neither of these were as bad. Admittedly, throwing the series is about as low as it goes. But we are talking about a select group of players involved in the scandal. We are not talking about a select group here. A culture of steroid abuse took root leaguewide and flourished under Selig's watch. It brings into question every record set under his regime, every hit, every strikeout. At no time in the history of the game could you say that. The whole integrity of everything done on the field is now under question. It can get worse than that, but I don't see it being worse at any other point in the history of the game. We are talking about a select group, something that has been estimated to be like 7% to 10% of players.
February 13, 200916 yr One thing that does make me laugh is that some of the MLB commentators on the radio dislike Congress stepping in to clean up the game, but they forget to mention that both the Players' Union and Selig only started to police themselves once Congress got involved. Both sides are to blame. Many owners clearly knew about their players juicing, but they looked the other way because their ticket sales were through the roof. Meanwhile, the players and their representatives knew many of their teammates were using, but they kept quiet. Now some of them are whining that this shouldn't be called the Steroid Era, because it is unfair to the clean players. Well, where have these 'clean' players been this whole time? Almost none of them have said a word until recently. Now all of a sudden several have come out to bash the users. That's great and all, but in many cases you guys saw this stuff going on and kept your mouth shut. For the most part I sided with the owners, because they made the first step in asking for mandatory testing, but the MLBPA resisted for some time. The other problem is, I see no willingness on the part of many owners to suspend their players who have admitted to past steroid use. I have no expectations that the Yankees will suspend their best player for 1 game, let alone 50. This whole thing is just a total mess. I think we could FINALLY begin the real healing process when the other 103 positive testing names are released, but not until then.
February 13, 200916 yr Plus you have to weigh in to pre-1990 when steroids were not illegal AND there was no testing. You're talking about this outrageous act of steroid abuse and how it exploded in the 90s... how do you know? How do you know it wasn't just a carry-over from pre-illegalization to post-illegalization. There's a real strong chance players made it part of their training routine and just continued to do it. There is the culture right there, because then it becomes a clubhouse fixture or something more intra-personal. Anybody that believes in "veteran leadership" should have ZERO problem believing that. He HAS made the right steps, he's definitely been imperfect, to say the least. But there's a lot of stuff people hold Selig accountable for that he just has no influence or control over. All Star Game tie? Steroids? At the same time, Selig has introduced the Wild Card, the WBC which has and probably will wind up internationalizing the game more, increasing the talent pool of ML players. The game has been recovering/increasing attendance basically every year since the strike. And as Rabb said, the game has recovered from worse than this.
February 13, 200916 yr Baseball is at it's all time highest in revenue. So, I think things are going o-k.
February 13, 200916 yr I agree with PWG and Nny. Selig has done more good for the game than bad. He doesn't get the credit he deserves IMO
February 14, 200916 yr Selig is going nowhere. As already stated, the game is making tremendously more money than it was before he was in charge. And he can't lose his job unless owners vote him out (unlikely since they like money) or he quits.
February 15, 200916 yr Lets add Gary Bettman to this. Everyone hates him too. Truth is nobody is ever satisfied with the commishes. I actually support Bettman in the NHL for most of his decisions. Some of them are pretty stupid, but for the most part he has done a good job and everyone still complains like hell.
February 15, 200916 yr Lets add Gary Bettman to this. Everyone hates him too. Truth is nobody is ever satisfied with the commishes. I actually support Bettman in the NHL for most of his decisions. Some of them are pretty stupid, but for the most part he has done a good job and everyone still complains like hell. It's true...although, I actually think Selig has done better for baseball than Bettman has for hockey. Regardless, people will always find some way to criticize.
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