April 3, 200917 yr I'm thinking it's basically set what the Fish will look like when they take the field to begin this season: C - Baker /Paulino 1B - Cantu 2B - Uggla SS - Ramirez 3B - Bonifacio LF - Hermida CF - Maybin RF - Ross But what will the actual batting order look like? I've not followed ST as much as other times just because of being busy with other things, but I do remember seeing that Bonifacio was leading off in some games that Maybin wasn't starting, but where then do they plan on fitting all these guys into the lineup together? If Maybin leads off, where does Bonifacio fit in?
April 3, 200917 yr There's been speculation that Bonifacio will leadoff against righties and Maybin will bat first against lefties. I see no reason why Bonifacio should take PA away from Maybin in any situation, but its not up to me. My guess is the lineup will look like this on opening day: 1. Maybin 2. Baker 3. Ramirez 4. Cantu 5. Uggla 6. Hermida 7. Ross 8. Bonifacio 9. Nolasco Maybin should be batting leadoff every game as far as I'm concerned. Unless Bonifacio proves he can get on base at a higher clip than Maybin (not going to happen) he needs to stick in the 8 hole.
April 3, 200917 yr I've actually thought that it might be interesting to put Bonifacio 9th and the pitcher 8th as the Cardinals did last year. This would allow for the speed guys (Bonifacio and Maybin) to hit back to back but not have to suffer from the low expected OBP of Bonifacio at the top of the order. 1. Maybin 2. Baker 3. Ramirez 4. Cantu 5. Uggla 6. Hermida 7. Ross 8. Pitcher 9. Bonifacio
April 3, 200917 yr I think the lineup got a little hazy with Bonifacio joining in on the fun, but I think Maybin gets the opening nod to lead off, making it... 1. Maybin - CF 2. Baker - C 3. Ramirez - SS 4. Cantu - 1B 5. Uggla - 2B 6. Ross - RF 7. Hermida - LF 8. Bonifacio - 3B 9. Nolasco - P
April 3, 200917 yr Whatever the choice batting Bonifacio eighth is both a waste and suicidal. Batting him first or second is even worse
April 3, 200917 yr Whatever the choice batting Bonifacio eighth is both a waste and suicidal. Batting him first or second is even worse I doubt that.
April 3, 200917 yr Whatever the choice batting Bonifacio eighth is both a waste and suicidal. Batting him first or second is even worse I doubt that. Do you understand what you are supposed to do in the top two spots? Some people have the terrible notion that the reason Castillo was great in the two spot was because he was fast and could bunt. Not only did he rarely bunt, but he had a RIDICULOUS OBP of .381 in those last 3 years here. The point of the two spot is to get on-base so that the middle of the order can knock them in. If he proves me wrong and puts up good OBP numbers to start the season, then yeah, you put him up top. But until then, it's the 8th spot for him.
April 3, 200917 yr Whatever the choice batting Bonifacio eighth is both a waste and suicidal. Batting him first or second is even worse I doubt that. Do you understand what you are supposed to do in the top two spots? Some people have the terrible notion that the reason Castillo was great in the two spot was because he was fast and could bunt. Not only did he rarely bunt, but he had a RIDICULOUS OBP of .381 in those last 3 years here. The point of the two spot is to get on-base so that the middle of the order can knock them in. If he proves me wrong and puts up good OBP numbers to start the season, then yeah, you put him up top. But until then, it's the 8th spot for him. Gee thanks. I used to think people were allowed to have opinions around here and not every nonchalant post had to lead to a "lesson" from someone else whose opinion is no more valid the other guy.
April 3, 200917 yr Whatever the choice batting Bonifacio eighth is both a waste and suicidal. Batting him first or second is even worse I doubt that. Do you understand what you are supposed to do in the top two spots? Some people have the terrible notion that the reason Castillo was great in the two spot was because he was fast and could bunt. Not only did he rarely bunt, but he had a RIDICULOUS OBP of .381 in those last 3 years here. The point of the two spot is to get on-base so that the middle of the order can knock them in. If he proves me wrong and puts up good OBP numbers to start the season, then yeah, you put him up top. But until then, it's the 8th spot for him. Gee thanks. I used to think people were allowed to have opinions around here and not every nonchalant post had to lead to a "lesson" from someone else whose opinion is not more valid the other guy. Well Fredi might agree with you 2003... But most of this board won't, including me. Maybin did nothing but prove himself over again the spring. He's going to be fantastic, and he's going to get on base a LOT. Putting Bonifacio at the top is a terrible waste of plate appearances.
April 3, 200917 yr Whatever the choice batting Bonifacio eighth is both a waste and suicidal. Batting him first or second is even worse I doubt that. Do you understand what you are supposed to do in the top two spots? Some people have the terrible notion that the reason Castillo was great in the two spot was because he was fast and could bunt. Not only did he rarely bunt, but he had a RIDICULOUS OBP of .381 in those last 3 years here. The point of the two spot is to get on-base so that the middle of the order can knock them in. If he proves me wrong and puts up good OBP numbers to start the season, then yeah, you put him up top. But until then, it's the 8th spot for him. Gee thanks. I used to think people were allowed to have opinions around here and not every nonchalant post had to lead to a "lesson" from someone else whose opinion is not more valid the other guy. Gee, I used to think this place was for discussions, where one could argue why they felt their opinion is better than someone else's. Usually, in those cases, this is the part where the other party would post an intelligently thought out rebuttal. Guess I was wrong.
April 3, 200917 yr Gee, I used to think this place was for discussions, where one could argue why they felt their opinion is better than someone else's. Usually, in those cases, this is the part where the other party would post an intelligently thought out rebuttal. Guess I was wrong. It wouldn't be the first time for either of us. There's a huge difference between discussion (which is what has disappeared here) and lecturing (of which there is way too much). And not every post has to be "an intelligently thought out rebuttal", not here, not on any messageboard, rebuttal implies an argument and in this case, I made a statement, Lou disagreed and I merely casually said I "doubted" it Last time I checked that was not a call to arms. Nor should it be.
April 3, 200917 yr Whatever the choice batting Bonifacio eighth is both a waste and suicidal. Batting him first or second is even worse I doubt that. Of course you do! Love for you to explain this to me. Please tell me how a guy who projects to have a .320 OBP, a sub .400 slugging percentage, and steals a lot of bases, is a better fit a the top of the lineup than someone like Maybin, who is going to out OBP and SLUG Bonifacio and provides the requisite "speed" as well, or Baker who is an OBP fiend, or Hermida who is looking at a really big rebound year right now. My ideal lineup is about creating the most amount of runs possible and not catering to situational baseball thinking single, steal, move to third, sac fly blah blah. What are you trying to do with your lineup with Bonifacio? I kind of feel scoring as many runs as possible is the main point of an offense. It's been statistically proven OBP correlates to runs scored than pretty much, any other stat (except like OBP*2+Slug but let's keep it easy). Is there another offensive theory I'm missing? We'd be better, by scoring less runs, just to have Bonifacio bat 1st or 2nd? Explain. Bonifacio is our worst positional starter on our team, and overall, the worst 3B starter in the league. He bats 8th. Whoever is playing opposite of Cantu on any given day, bats 8th. It's that easy.
April 3, 200917 yr Last time I checked that was not a call to arms. Nor should it be. Yes it is, because you are factually and statistically wrong, and this kind of nonsense needs to be called out EVERY time stupidity is posted. Can't wait for an awesome rebuttal. I doubt that.
April 3, 200917 yr Last time I checked that was not a call to arms. Nor should it be. Yes it is, because you are factually and statistically wrong, and this kind of nonsense needs to be called out EVERY time stupidity is posted. Can't wait for an awesome rebuttal. I doubt that. I wouldn't go with "stupidity" as much as "often held inaccuracy". But I agree.
April 3, 200917 yr Last time I checked that was not a call to arms. Nor should it be. Yes it is, because you are factually and statistically wrong, and this kind of nonsense needs to be called out EVERY time stupidity is posted. Can't wait for an awesome rebuttal. I doubt that. Stupidity? Thank you so very much. Wow. So much for discourse.
April 3, 200917 yr Personally, I think Bonifacio will be towards the back of the lineup, at least initially. As stated earlier, he is yet to prove that he can get on base consistently enough to be in the front of the order. But the idea that he might wind up in the front-end of the order at some point during this season is not a crazy one.
April 3, 200917 yr Last time I checked that was not a call to arms. Nor should it be. Yes it is, because you are factually and statistically wrong, and this kind of nonsense needs to be called out EVERY time stupidity is posted. Can't wait for an awesome rebuttal. I doubt that. Stupidity? Thank you so very much. Wow. So much for discourse. The point of an offense is to score runs. OBP has been statistically proven through years of research over every MLB season, that players with higher OBP produce more runs for their team than players who have lower OBP. Therefore, you want to maximize these player's PA by putting them at the top of the lineup. Applied to our team, this makes no sense if we have legitimate options such as Maybin, Baker, and Hermida to live in our 1-2 spots who all display a walking propensity and average potential, otherwise known as OBP, over Bonifacio who doesn't really display any of those things right now, just can slap a few and run like the wind. It makes no sense out of the gates to bat him at the top with a lineup and team full of superior options. It's not discourse when you have no argument against any of this. And if you do, sh*t you need to email MIT like immediately cause you are brilliant. This isn't an opinion. Like you saying, "I think Bonifacio is going to OBP .350." That's an opinion. I disagree with it, BUT I can understand your position if you want to take the 90% pecota forecast of Bonifacio and think maybe this guy does turn into a baby Castillo and gets on base at least on a respectable clip where his speed than absolutely aggravates people. It's a bold call, but hey, this worked with Uggla before. You get one right every few months. If you want to say this, I have no problem with you thinking Bonifacio should lead off from day 1. I disagree he can do that, but it is logical because you are not going against the "OBP/Scoring Runs point of offense" analysis. You cannot go against this and have legitimate discourse, unless you want to make the bold call. Are you going to do this? You can play the, "oh no discourse" card all you want and look like the 'bigger' person by not succumbing to the antagonistic attack. Despite the fact you are easily the top instigator of trouble on the board. The fact remains, you're avoiding the argument and trying your best not to respond through any way you can wiggle out of it. Feel free to continue doing your typical diversionary tactics, but it's not fooling anyone.
April 3, 200917 yr well, they've been experimenting batting Maybin 9th in ST, which has me worried that they will bat him 8th when the regular season rolls around. The thing with bonafacio is that he's not really ideal at any spot in the order. As mentioned, you want your first two hitters to get on base (having speed is also a bonus). Bonafacio hasn't shown that he can do that in the past. From your 8th hitter, it's nice to have some pop (since they are the "2nd cleanup hitter") and it's also nice for them to be bad ball hitters. Bonafacio has very little pop...and his hitting is obviously in questions (bad ball or good). Furthermore, Bonafacio's speed is neutralized at the 8th spot. Since the 8th spot is before the pitcher, Bonafacio won't be running if he gets on base with two outs (no point risking getting caught stealing and having the pitcher start off the next inning). I really hope they keep maybin somewhere in the top of the order. We may see something like this: Maybin Bonafacio Hanley Cantu Uggla Hermida Ross Baker P I like Baker hitting 2nd but if they put bonafacio at the top of the order, I can't imagaine moving Maybin...that means moving baker. and baker has a little pop, which is nice from the 8th spot. Don't know if he's a good, bad ball hitter...but he's patient so I can't see him K'ing much from the junk he'll see at the number 8 spot. THis also gives the R, L, R, L switch at the bottom of the order, which managers love. In this lineup, bonafacio can just bunt maybin over to third every AB . Of course, with hermida's awesome spring, they may be able to use him in the 2 spot again. In which case all of this goes to hell and the earth will collapse into a vortex
April 3, 200917 yr well, they've been experimenting batting Maybin 9th in ST, which has me worried that they will bat him 8th when the regular season rolls around. The thing with bonafacio is that he's not really ideal at any spot in the order. As mentioned, you want your first two hitters to get on base (having speed is also a bonus). Bonafacio hasn't shown that he can do that in the past. From your 8th hitter, it's nice to have some pop (since they are the "2nd cleanup hitter") and it's also nice for them to be bad ball hitters. Bonafacio has very little pop...and his hitting is obviously in questions (bad ball or good). Furthermore, Bonafacio's speed is neutralized at the 8th spot. Since the 8th spot is before the pitcher, Bonafacio won't be running if he gets on base with two outs (no point risking getting caught stealing and having the pitcher start off the next inning). I really hope they keep maybin somewhere in the top of the order. We may see something like this: Maybin Bonafacio Hanley Cantu Uggla Hermida Ross Baker P I like Baker hitting 2nd but if they put bonafacio at the top of the order, I can't imagaine moving Maybin...that means moving baker. and baker has a little pop, which is nice from the 8th spot. Don't know if he's a good, bad ball hitter...but he's patient so I can't see him K'ing much from the junk he'll see at the number 8 spot. THis also gives the R, L, R, L switch at the bottom of the order, which managers love. In this lineup, bonafacio can just bunt maybin over to third every AB . Of course, with hermida's awesome spring, they may be able to use him in the 2 spot again. In which case all of this goes to hell and the earth will collapse into a vortex nice discourse. :cool I like the lineup. It seems like we have a lot of options, or rather, not much that is set in stone. There will certainly be some shuffling as the season progresses, but this thread is about opening day. I like the idea of giving Herm the Germ the 2 spot to start out, coming off a hot spring. Give him some confidence, show faith in him, and maybe he will deliver. If he disappoints, there are plenty of other viable options for the order of things.
April 3, 200917 yr Lou, as much as *you* try to paint me as the bad guy, and usually if I'm being argumentative I have the gonads to admit I am, I was not, nor am I looking for an argument and I feel no obligation to respond other than I have an opinion that differs from yours. The major difference though is I don't try to pass off an opinion as fact, or make my every post an object lesson on baseball 101, something you clearly are obsessed with doing. Continue if you feel the need, I won't be lured into battle, not over something as minuscule as a difference of opinion.
April 3, 200917 yr I hate the idea of Maybin batting 8th. Oh my god that would be terrible. I love when Marlins2003 tries to be the "bigger man". I can't wait until tomorrow when you start with the personal attacks. You're a laugh.
April 3, 200917 yr 1. Maybin 2. Baker 3. Hanley 4. Cantu 5. Uggla 6. Hermida 7. Cody 8. Pitcher 9. Bonerface
April 3, 200917 yr I hate the idea of Maybin batting 8th. Oh my god that would be terrible. I love when Marlins2003 tries to be the "bigger man". I can't wait until tomorrow when you start with the personal attacks. You're a laugh. You just can't stop can you? Sad. And endless. Of course your comments weren't a personal attack, right?
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