May 12, 200917 yr Loria should be worse than 4th. I know why? Name one player we have from the 03 WS team...oh right you can't And why does that matter?
May 12, 200917 yr Loria should be worse than 4th. I know why? Name one player we have from the 03 WS team...oh right you can't Save for a couple of players, everyone on the 03 WS team has been replaced with a much better player in terms of current production....
May 12, 200917 yr Ignoring the fact that Loria DID keep most of the 03 team intact for 04 and 05, and they underperformed/choked, how many teams keep a core group of players for 6 years without making the playoffs once? Also, it isn't like once those players were gone, we became the 1998 version of ourselves. We've been in the thick of the playoff race into August/September. If anything, we traded good players for good players.
May 12, 200917 yr Loria should be worse than 4th. I know why? Name one player we have from the 03 WS team...oh right you can't Save for a couple of players, everyone on the 03 WS team has been replaced with a much better player in terms of current production.... that is a completely dumb statement, considering our 2003 team had some of the best pitching and defense in the league at the time. With Pudge behind the plate and one of the most balanced pitching staffs ever at that point (Beckett and Burnett now with mega contracts on high profile teams, as is Ryan Dempster), to say that those players have been replaced by better players is just so dumb. You will never get that team back, and with our constant rebuilding of youth and never really keeping a stockpile of players we deem the future (other than Hanley), we cannot possibly be taken seriously by the rest of baseball./
May 12, 200917 yr Author Loria should be worse than 4th. I know why? Name one player we have from the 03 WS team...oh right you can't After 03, we tried to emulate our success for a few years and we simply could not make the postseason. To management, this meant our team was 'broken' and we went ahead and attempted to fix it. The team that is out there now is a result of this. There was no need to retain our 2003 WS champion players, and therefore we moved on and got fresh blood pumping through the team. The management made the right moves, but we are all on this board to differ in opinion. The idea of retaining champion players year after year does not work in MLB. It is not hard to find examples of teams that have spent fortunes to do this and have not gotten WS titles in return.
May 12, 200917 yr Ignoring the fact that Loria DID keep most of the 03 team intact for 04 and 05, and they underperformed/choked, how many teams keep a core group of players for 6 years without making the playoffs once? Also, it isn't like once those players were gone, we became the 1998 version of ourselves. We've been in the thick of the playoff race into August/September. If anything, we traded good players for good players. we finished under .500 in 2006. Not saying that wasn't a good accomplishment considering how young the team was, but still its wrong the say we traded good players for good players alltogether. Our problem is the marlins have yet to find a happy medium. They tried to go balls to the walls in 04 and 05 trying to make the playoffs, but all they did was get bad team players and didn't really add to key areas we needed. When that didn't work, we made a "market correction" and went to an all rookie team. Just doesn't seem like Loria knows how to spend just enough money to give us a winning team, when there are free agents out there that we know can make our team better for just around $3 million (chump change for most teams), we ignore them because our owner cannot spend the money. We let key pieces go such as Arthur Rhodes because we cannot spend 4 million dollars for 2 years on a guy. We cannot constantly be in rebuilding mode, and I doubt with Loria as owner we will ever see our real key players getting long term deals (Hanley is the franchise, definite exception in that case).
May 12, 200917 yr that is a completely dumb statement, considering our 2003 team had some of the best pitching and defense in the league at the time. With Pudge behind the plate and one of the most balanced pitching staffs ever at that point (Beckett and Burnett now with mega contracts on high profile teams, as is Ryan Dempster), to say that those players have been replaced by better players is just so dumb. You will never get that team back, and with our constant rebuilding of youth and never really keeping a stockpile of players we deem the future (other than Hanley), we cannot possibly be taken seriously by the rest of baseball./ Let's see what happens now that we have a stadium. It has hard to plan for the future when the future (financially) of the organiation is uncertain.
May 12, 200917 yr Loria should be worse than 4th. I know why? Name one player we have from the 03 WS team...oh right you can't After 03, we tried to emulate our success for a few years and we simply could not make the postseason. To management, this meant our team was 'broken' and we went ahead and attempted to fix it. The team that is out there now is a result of this. There was no need to retain our 2003 WS champion players, and therefore we moved on and got fresh blood pumping through the team. The management made the right moves, but we are all on this board to differ in opinion. The idea of retaining champion players year after year does not work in MLB. It is not hard to find examples of teams that have spent fortunes to do this and have not gotten WS titles in return. and if we had an owner that would've been willing to spend a few million dollars, we would have a rotation of Beckett, Burnett, Dempster, Johnson, and Nolasco. Either way if our owner wasn't as cheap we could be better, period.
May 12, 200917 yr and if we had an owner that would've been willing to spend a few million dollars, we would have a rotation of Beckett, Burnett, Dempster, Johnson, and Nolasco. Either way if our owner wasn't as cheap we could be better, period. And if we still had Beckett, we would not have Hanley....
May 12, 200917 yr and if we had an owner that would've been willing to spend a few million dollars, we would have a rotation of Beckett, Burnett, Dempster, Johnson, and Nolasco. Either way if our owner wasn't as cheap we could be better, period. And if we still had Beckett, we would not have Hanley.... there's always going to be two sides to every story. But as it has been said before, pitching and defense wins championships, and I would trade Hanley for a rotation of Beckett, Burnett, Johnson, Dempster and Nolasco.
May 12, 200917 yr Loria should be worse than 4th. I know why? Name one player we have from the 03 WS team...oh right you can't Name one player that was on the 03 Dodgers who still is. Better team. Name one player that was in the 03, 93-win Athletics who still is. Better team. Name 1 player that's been on the 03, 100-win Giants, since that year. (PS, That means Rich Aurilia, who was let go and went back years later as a shell, doesn't count.)
May 12, 200917 yr Ignoring the fact that Loria DID keep most of the 03 team intact for 04 and 05, and they underperformed/choked, how many teams keep a core group of players for 6 years without making the playoffs once? Also, it isn't like once those players were gone, we became the 1998 version of ourselves. We've been in the thick of the playoff race into August/September. If anything, we traded good players for good players. we finished under .500 in 2006. Not saying that wasn't a good accomplishment considering how young the team was, but still its wrong the say we traded good players for good players alltogether. Our problem is the marlins have yet to find a happy medium. They tried to go balls to the walls in 04 and 05 trying to make the playoffs, but all they did was get bad team players and didn't really add to key areas we needed. When that didn't work, we made a "market correction" and went to an all rookie team. Just doesn't seem like Loria knows how to spend just enough money to give us a winning team, when there are free agents out there that we know can make our team better for just around $3 million (chump change for most teams), we ignore them because our owner cannot spend the money. We let key pieces go such as Arthur Rhodes because we cannot spend 4 million dollars for 2 years on a guy. We cannot constantly be in rebuilding mode, and I doubt with Loria as owner we will ever see our real key players getting long term deals (Hanley is the franchise, definite exception in that case). I meant, in the end, after 2006, we are still accomplishing around what we did in 04 and 05. 03 may have been an aberration, and again, most of that team was kept in tact for 04 and 05. They swapped some players in for others, and some of them didn't work out, but that's baseball. I don't think keeping that team together would have us winning the division last year or anything like that. But I do somewhat agree that after 05, we may have traded too much too quickly, but I don't blame Loria for that. He may have just gone to Beinfest and said "we lost X amount of money, we still haven't made the playoffs, do something." If he indeed was losing money and the results weren't worth it, what else is there to do? In the end, we have just had one "cycle" under Loria's ownership where we went into complete rebuilding mode. And it wasn't totally without merit. Let's see what happens once the stadium opens up.
May 12, 200917 yr Loria should be worse than 4th. I know why? Name one player we have from the 03 WS team...oh right you can't Name one player that was on the 03 Dodgers who still is. Better team. Name one player that was in the 03, 93-win Athletics who still is. Better team. Name 1 player that's been on the 03, 100-win Giants, since that year. (PS, That means Rich Aurilia, who was let go and went back years later as a shell, doesn't count.) :thumbup
May 12, 200917 yr and if we had an owner that would've been willing to spend a few million dollars, we would have a rotation of Beckett, Burnett, Dempster, Johnson, and Nolasco. Either way if our owner wasn't as cheap we could be better, period. And if we still had Beckett, we would not have Hanley.... there's always going to be two sides to every story. But as it has been said before, pitching and defense wins championships, and I would trade Hanley for a rotation of Beckett, Burnett, Johnson, Dempster and Nolasco. How many rotations of 5 above average, let alone "ace," pitchers been kept together for more than a few years, outside of New York and Boston. Nowadays I mean, not back in the 90s, where salaries weren't as big. Add to that, keeping those guys and then players like Pudge and Cabrera. Baseball economics suck. Especially for us.
May 12, 200917 yr i have a hard time thinking of any team from 2003 that 6 years later has 1/3 of it's roster still in place using 8 positions players, 5 starters, a closer and a player of your choice (pivotal bench guy, bullpen arm, etc) that will get us to 15 is there any team trotting out 5 guys that they relied on 6 years ago? continuity is rare enough these days - then when you throw in financial reality and free agency it's tough even if the marlins had a rich owner, they were still in a bad revenue position with their lease - also a rich owner isn't necessarily going to cut a bad deal on a stadium just to get it done those top 3 pitchers will set you back at least $40M a season just for them - not to mention that all 3 have had a varying level of injury concerns over their careers add delgado/dlee and cabrera and they are up to $70M would money bags owner also overspent to keep dontrelle willis and how much salary space would that eat up? How about Pavano or Penny - wouldn't he want to keep them as well? $9M a year for Juan Pierre as well?! How about $12M for lowell? $4M for Loop?
May 12, 200917 yr Loria should be worse than 4th. I know why? Name one player we have from the 03 WS team...oh right you can't wow. that's the most ridiculous reason ever. for starters, if you're so angry at us not having any '03 players you should get rid of your sig. it's because of trading away beckett and lowell that we have Hanley. 2nd, do you remember 1998? do you remember how we went from world series champs to 108 losses? but yeah, huizenga is a great owner... lets see, after 2003 what did we do? we tried to improve. we did a good midseason trade to try to improve in our weak areas but unfortunately due to a freak hurricane season we had to play a ton of games in a short amount of time and we choked. 2005 we did the biggest free agent signing in team history. we signed delgado and we were supposed to be division winners, unfortunately again we choked and didnt make the playoffs. now after two choke years and attendance still being down Loria did what ANY businessman would have done and cut payroll. he was put into a crappy stadium lease (done by huizenga himself) and was making barely any money off of the team. but he could have easily just traded our players for anyone but he didnt. beinfest stepped in and got us players that will win us a championship soon. here's a better question now.. what 2003 players would you even want? beckett, burnet, and miggy? castillo, gonzalez, pudge, pierre, encarnacion, and penny are no longer the players they used to be. we would not have a great team right now if we kept those players. I'd rather have hanley than beckett and lowel. It would be nice to have cabrera, but if maybin and miller end up how they should then I'm fine with trading him. I'm not saying Loria is perfect, but he is not a bad owner. we've had a bad owner, and it is not Loria
May 12, 200917 yr Loria should be worse than 4th. I know why? Name one player we have from the 03 WS team...oh right you can't How many of them would you really want? Either Cabrera or Lee for 1B Braden Looper perhaps Beckett except that I'd rather have Hanley Not to mention that even the huge-payroll Sox have 3. And they tried to swap out 2 of those this offseason.
May 13, 200917 yr I wouldnt doubt it, but It aint happening. It's like finding out Ken Griffey used PED's. I'm numb to it.
May 13, 200917 yr and if we had an owner that would've been willing to spend a few million dollars, we would have a rotation of Beckett, Burnett, Dempster, Johnson, and Nolasco. Either way if our owner wasn't as cheap we could be better, period. And if we still had Beckett, we would not have Hanley.... there's always going to be two sides to every story. But as it has been said before, pitching and defense wins championships, and I would trade Hanley for a rotation of Beckett, Burnett, Johnson, Dempster and Nolasco. Name one team besides the Yankees that could afford to have a rotation like that.
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.