Brett Carroll as a starter

[Sirspud]

I don't know why people here still waste the time arguing about Hermida. It should be plainly obvious to all parties involved that since there is such a heated debate he has obviously fallen well short of the expectations of where he was supposed to be at. One person can show a stat claiming he is useful while another can show something claiming he isn't, but in the end I really feel like we would all be much better off when Hermida parts ways with this franchise so we don't have to tiptoe the line of whether or not Hermida is a failure or not and just go on trying to get the best production out of RF we can.

[bobbob1313]

Why can't we get the production we can and keep hermida?

 

Sure, he's been a dissapointment. I'm extremely dissapointed in him because i've been waiting for that breakout for a while.

 

Just bexause he's not what we thought he would be doesn't mean he isn't valuable to us.

 

 

I think the problem with this debate is that you don't write guys off at 25 no matter what they haven't lived up to. So he's supposed to be Nick markakis right now, and he's just an .800 opsing vs rhp platoon partner. That is dissapointing, but it doesn't mean he is useless, or that it's 'proof that he sucks', or anything really. It's proof of nothing more than that he can't hit lefties

[Anonymous]

I'm asking because I don't know... are there options or are the Marlins in a position to send down Hermida to AAA ala Ricky Nolasco (whom it did wonders)?

 

 

Sun Sentinel on just this subject:

 

http://www.sun-senti...,0,348358.story

 

 

 

I was just thinking about this yesterday. Every year, there was a point in time where we should have sent down Hermida, yet we never did. I think we should do it this year, see what It does for him.

[Sirspud]

I'm asking because I don't know... are there options or are the Marlins in a position to send down Hermida to AAA ala Ricky Nolasco (whom it did wonders)?

 

 

Sun Sentinel on just this subject:

 

http://www.sun-senti...,0,348358.story

 

 

 

I was just thinking about this yesterday. Every year, there was a point in time where we should have sent down Hermida, yet we never did. I think we should do it this year, see what It does for him.

 

With Maybin doing well it would seem to be the optimum time for that, except that it is nearing the deadline and it is far more likely that Hermida will get dealt to a team that is in more of a re-building state. Except for the fact that the Marlins are perpetually re-building, we aren't in a re-building state and should be aiming for the post-season as much as that will allow. And if that involves getting rid of a guy who has had 3 disappointing years and one good one, so be it.

 

Hermida is just NOT progressing. I don't know why his ardent supporters don't realize that. With guys who aren't developing in their current situation, perhaps the best thing to try and get them to develop is a change of scenery.

[Anonymous]

We realize he's dissapointing. But you also have to realize that he's 25 years old. He is still very young.

But I agree, maybe a change of scenery would do him wonders. You mentioned Pittsburgh, and I think that's a great place for him to play.

I'm not against trading him, but I'm not against keeping him.

[Sirspud]

We realize he's dissapointing. But you also have to realize that he's 25 years old. He is still very young.

But I agree, maybe a change of scenery would do him wonders. You mentioned Pittsburgh, and I think that's a great place for him to play.

I'm not against trading him, but I'm not against keeping him.

 

 

I realize his age and that's one of the reasons why I was actually very pleased to see him return this year and hoped that he would make good on the opportunity. But not only has he struggled offensively, his game has suffered defensively, where he was never that great but hadn't embarrassed himself on a consistent basis like this year.

 

After all these years I've really come to see that Hermida's problems can largely be attributed to confidence, or lack thereof. Expectations have been thrust upon him since he was the favorite for rookie of the year in 2006. That Hermida is only 25 means that he has a lot of time to turn it aroud, and I wish him the best in doing so. But the more he stagnates here the more it becomes evident that he will enver reach his potential here.

 

I do think Pittsburgh would be fantastic for him.

[bobbob1313]

I think hermida's been no worse defensively this year than any.

 

And really, I don't see why I can't at once believe he has potential and still be realistic on him. He is still opsing .800 against rhp this season, so a platoon makes perfect sense. It really doesn't matter if we expected more than that, it is what is happening. Why not just go with the decent combined performance we could get from him and Carroll platooning?

[Marlins2003]

The problem with platooning is there aren't unlimited roster spots. As the season goes along and jobs become more clearly defined, especially in the NL with no DH, you don't always have the luxury of keeping a guy around (I'm speaking of a Brett Carroll now because Hermida still is THE starting right fielder) because he matches up. It has to work itself out one way or another.

[Sirspud]

I think hermida's been no worse defensively this year than any.

 

And really, I don't see why I can't at once believe he has potential and still be realistic on him. He is still opsing .800 against rhp this season, so a platoon makes perfect sense. It really doesn't matter if we expected more than that, it is what is happening. Why not just go with the decent combined performance we could get from him and Carroll platooning?

 

 

The first is that he could be a somewhat effective tradepiece. The second is that we may be able to get similar production elsewhere and without his atrocius defense continuing to cost us runs. I don't know if Maybin can equal his production or not, but the FO may believe so.

 

When you come down to it, the fact of the matter is that Hermida is pretty much mediocre and the team might not be willing to accept that anymore. And the why don't we just accept if attitude hasn't brought us the playoffs since he has been here. I've said it in other threads, this team has proven just good enough over a full season to come up a couple games short to teams like the Phillies. We should set our sights higher.

 

Beinfest hasn't been willing to make the big move to help this team since we've gotten the current crop of talent. I think that changes this year because we are running out of chances to build around this crop of talent before guys like Johnson, Nolasco, Ross, & Uggla become too pricey. In fact, we already started de-constructing the 2006 crop this offseason, which makes me regret that we didn't make the big move that everyone was expecting (and by that I don't mean just the Manny Ramirez deal) last year, when we had much more talent yet still came up short.

[Sirspud]

The problem with platooning is there aren't unlimited roster spots. As the season goes along and jobs become more clearly defined, especially in the NL with no DH, you don't always have the luxury of keeping a guy around (I'm speaking of a Brett Carroll now because Hermida still is THE starting right fielder) because he matches up. It has to work itself out one way or another.

 

 

I agree with you about the merits of platooning but I do think that Carroll is now entrenched on this roster. It's easy to forget that we even carry a 5th outfielder on the roster with how sparingly De Aza actually plays, but you have to believe that if any moves are needed he will go before Carroll and I can't see us picking up two outfielders and leaving Carroll out of the picture.

[Marlins2003]

The thing I think that works against Maybin is the team making a legitimate playoff run. Maybin may be an excellent player and will contribute in years to come but he's not Miggy, that kind of guy just doesn't come along very often. In my mind (and purely my opinion based on nothing other than that) Maybin is one of those guys you make play in the minors until it becomes so embarrassing that he's still there you have to bring him up. Make him force your hand, and until he starts to show some power he's not ready. Remember Justin Upton being p*ssed off that the Rays wouldn't bring him up and spouting off to some reporter about it saying in effect "I'm going to make them call me up". And he did.

 

Right or wrong I see some of the same thing with Maybin. I'd like to see him come up with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove.

[Anonymous]

The thing I think that works against Maybin is the team making a legitimate playoff run. Maybin may be an excellent player and will contribute in years to come but he's not Miggy, that kind of guy just doesn't come along very often. In my mind (and purely my opinion based on nothing other than that) Maybin is one of those guys you make play in the minors until it becomes so embarrassing that he's still there you have to bring him up. Make him force your hand, and until he starts to show some power he's not ready. Remember Justin Upton being p*ssed off that the Rays wouldn't bring him up and spouting off to some reporter about it saying in effect "I'm going to make them call me up". And he did.

 

Right or wrong I see some of the same thing with Maybin. I'd like to see him come up with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove.

 

 

 

You mean B.J Upton?

[Marlins2003]

The thing I think that works against Maybin is the team making a legitimate playoff run. Maybin may be an excellent player and will contribute in years to come but he's not Miggy, that kind of guy just doesn't come along very often. In my mind (and purely my opinion based on nothing other than that) Maybin is one of those guys you make play in the minors until it becomes so embarrassing that he's still there you have to bring him up. Make him force your hand, and until he starts to show some power he's not ready. Remember Justin Upton being p*ssed off that the Rays wouldn't bring him up and spouting off to some reporter about it saying in effect "I'm going to make them call me up". And he did.

 

Right or wrong I see some of the same thing with Maybin. I'd like to see him come up with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove.

 

 

 

You mean B.J Upton?

 

 

Thank you. My bad. :banghead

[Sirspud]

The thing I think that works against Maybin is the team making a legitimate playoff run. Maybin may be an excellent player and will contribute in years to come but he's not Miggy, that kind of guy just doesn't come along very often. In my mind (and purely my opinion based on nothing other than that) Maybin is one of those guys you make play in the minors until it becomes so embarrassing that he's still there you have to bring him up. Make him force your hand, and until he starts to show some power he's not ready. Remember Justin Upton being p*ssed off that the Rays wouldn't bring him up and spouting off to some reporter about it saying in effect "I'm going to make them call me up". And he did.

 

Right or wrong I see some of the same thing with Maybin. I'd like to see him come up with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove.

 

 

Upton's issues were more of a defensive nature than anything with his bat. He did indeed struggle offensively in the majors, and his minor league offense wasn't so earth shattering that he merited forcing his way in the majors, but he was still stubbonrly played at SS until it became entirely apparent that it would never work out there.

 

Maybin's defense is actually a major plus for him and his situation is different. We started the year expecting him to be a key piece of the team. This was undoubtedly a terrible decision and I said that before he struggled and was demoted. Now everyone, including Maybin, expects him to be up in the majors at any time. Even last night, Beinfest indicated its just a matter of him having a place to paly.

 

We really already broke the egg by starting him in the majors this year and ignoring his deficiencies. But with as hot as he is in the minors, and there being SOME (more line drives) evidence of an improved offensive approach, it may be detrimental to his confidence longterm to not have him back up at some point.

 

I'm also becoming convinced more and more that if he is confident and we put him in a position to succeed, he may actually be more of an asset to this team than Hermida down the stretch.

[bobbob1313]

I'm doubtful Maybin can come up and OPS .800 against RHP, and if he can't, then he really doesn't represent an upgrade on Hermida.

[marlins_09]

I love maybins speed because we all know from the 2003 season that speed kills. but the one thing i worry about maybin being a starting OF for us is the fact he has only hit 1 hr in the minors and i believe he only hit 1 while he was up here. I would like to see more power out of him. This being said he is tearing it up in AAA and he cant be as bad defensively as hermida.

[MrMarlinPride]

I love maybins speed because we all know from the 2003 season that speed kills. but the one thing i worry about maybin being a starting OF for us is the fact he has only hit 1 hr in the minors and i believe he only hit 1 while he was up here. I would like to see more power out of him. This being said he is tearing it up in AAA and he cant be as bad defensively as hermida.

 

 

He's still got plenty of time to develop power(he's only 22) like Hanley did by working out and filling out his body, but it won't really matter because he's going to be a lead off hitter as long as he's in a Marlins Uniform.

 

Out of him i want a good BA, High OBP and plenty of SB's, SLG and OPS isn't something huge you look for in a lead off hitter but it's always a plus.

[marlins_09]

I love maybins speed because we all know from the 2003 season that speed kills. but the one thing i worry about maybin being a starting OF for us is the fact he has only hit 1 hr in the minors and i believe he only hit 1 while he was up here. I would like to see more power out of him. This being said he is tearing it up in AAA and he cant be as bad defensively as hermida.

 

 

He's still got plenty of time to develop power(he's only 22) like Hanley did by working out and filling out his body, but it won't really matter because he's going to be a lead off hitter as long as he's in a Marlins Uniform.

 

Out of him i want a good BA, High OBP and plenty of SB's, SLG and OPS isn't something huge you look for in a lead off hitter but it's always a plus.

 

i really didnt even think of that i was thinking CC as the leadoff hitter. I think CC would be really good as a #2 hitter working the count before hanley

[marlins_09]

so it would be like this?

 

maybin

CC

Hanram

cantu

uggla

ross

baker

boner

pitcher

[Sirspud]

I love maybins speed because we all know from the 2003 season that speed kills. but the one thing i worry about maybin being a starting OF for us is the fact he has only hit 1 hr in the minors and i believe he only hit 1 while he was up here. I would like to see more power out of him. This being said he is tearing it up in AAA and he cant be as bad defensively as hermida.

 

 

He's still got plenty of time to develop power(he's only 22) like Hanley did by working out and filling out his body, but it won't really matter because he's going to be a lead off hitter as long as he's in a Marlins Uniform.

 

Out of him i want a good BA, High OBP and plenty of SB's, SLG and OPS isn't something huge you look for in a lead off hitter but it's always a plus.

 

The thing with Maybin is that the power is already there physically. His problem is that he hasn't yet learned how to drive the ball and elevate it to use his power on a consistent basis and instead hits the ball on the ground very frequently. Theoretically he will develop more power physically, but if he is going to get increased power production it will come from adjustments at the plate.

[MrMarlinPride]

so it would be like this?

 

maybin

CC

Hanram

cantu

uggla

ross

baker

boner

pitcher

 

 

Hopefully but you never know.

 

At the beginning of the year Maybin was hitting 8th and 2nd, hopefully we eventually move Boner down to the 8 or 9 spot if Maybin shows signs of life but when he 1st comes back he'll probably hit 7th/8th or 2nd.

[MrMarlinPride]

The thing with Maybin is that the power is already there physically. His problem is that he hasn't yet learned how to drive the ball and elevate it to use his power on a consistent basis and instead hits the ball on the ground very frequently. Theoretically he will develop more power physically, but if he is going to get increased power production it will come from adjustments at the plate.

 

 

Very Good Point, he should be able to adjust into a line drive hitter soon and the power should come from there.

[marlins_09]

so down the road lets say around september who do you see leading off? cc , maybin, or boner

[Sirspud]

so it would be like this?

 

maybin

CC

Hanram

cantu

uggla

ross

baker

boner

pitcher

 

 

Hopefully but you never know.

 

At the beginning of the year Maybin was hitting 8th and 2nd, hopefully we eventually move Boner down to the 8 or 9 spot if Maybin shows signs of life but when he 1st comes back he'll probably hit 7th/8th or 2nd.

 

I think batting Maybin at the bottom of the order is a bad idea and part of the reason why he struggled at the beginning of the year. In his raw form, he is best utilized at the top of the order where he can use his high energy play and his hitting the ball on the ground won't be a problem. That's where he was last September where it worked so well. And it's the same place where Hanley was able to develop into one of the league's great players. What that does to the rest of the order I don't know, but we don't even know what opening will exist for Maybin to get another crack at the lineup.

[MrMarlinPride]

I think batting Maybin at the bottom of the order is a bad idea and part of the reason why he struggled at the beginning of the year. In his raw form, he is best utilized at the top of the order where he can use his high energy play and his hitting the ball on the ground won't be a problem. That's where he was last September where it worked so well. And it's the same place where Hanley was able to develop into one of the league's great players. What that does to the rest of the order I don't know, but we don't even know what opening will exist for Maybin to get another crack at the lineup.

 

 

I agree, and I pray that Freddi does to since he's the tard that put him to bat 8th in the 1st place.