Jump to content

All decade team


TrustN61
 Share

Recommended Posts


Guest Guest

If they were going to designate the best reliever that was NOT a closer of the decade, I probably would have gone with Braden Looper. He pitched a lot of 8th innings in 2001 and 2002 while Alfonseca and Vladimir Nunez were the closers and put up some pretty respectable numbers.

 

Pinto has had some decent seasonal ERAs but he gives up too many walks and hits to be regarded as a good reliever. Pinto's WHIP last season was around 1.60.

 

From 2000 to 2009, the Marlins haven't really had that many good relievers that weren't closers. They had a couple of reclamation guys that were good for about a season, but noone memorable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, Fruit Loops was a closer for most of '03 and a good part of '02 so maybe that's why they didn't put him as SU. Other non-closers like Kiko, Nelson, Miller, Gardner, and the such who had better times here than Pinto didn't last too long (though Pudge is on the team). Pinto isn't that bad of a choice.

 

I actually think the OF is worse than Pinto being SU. Cody Ross and Cliff Floyd should be above Niner and JP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

just read the article and all i can say is WTF is up with pinto being on the team. he's a solid reliever but all-decade....really

 

and aj burnett should definitely be on the team

 

 

 

Disagree. He wasn't coachable, wouldn't listen to his catcher, was more interested in what the radar gun said after every pitch than he was actually being a "pitcher", and he was a club house cancer. PLUS he was told to clean out his locker with a week left in the season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Guest

Well, Fruit Loops was a closer for most of '03 and a good part of '02 so maybe that's why they didn't put him as SU. Other non-closers like Kiko, Nelson, Miller, Gardner, and the such who had better times here than Pinto didn't last too long (though Pudge is on the team). Pinto isn't that bad of a choice.

 

I actually think the OF is worse than Pinto being SU. Cody Ross and Cliff Floyd should be above Niner and JP.

 

I was thinking about Cliff Floyd myself. Unless they wanted to have a "real" CF for the third OF spot, choosing Pierre over Floyd was a mistake.

 

Niner was probably a mistake too if they are only considering his 2003-2005 numbers. I'm guessing there were some intangibles at play here.

 

Also- I would put Willingham over Niner too and possibly over Ross (Cody's superior defense complicates this).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

just read the article and all i can say is WTF is up with pinto being on the team. he's a solid reliever but all-decade....really

 

and aj burnett should definitely be on the team

 

 

 

Disagree. He wasn't coachable, wouldn't listen to his catcher, was more interested in what the radar gun said after every pitch than he was actually being a "pitcher", and he was a club house cancer. PLUS he was told to clean out his locker with a week left in the season.

 

 

And yet he still dominated to the point where he deserved to be on the All Decade team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jeff Conine is obviously on this list for sentimental reasons. There is simply no reason why he should be on there over Ross, Willingham, Floyd, and maybe even Encarnacion.

 

The most interesting position to ponder is second base. Luis Castillo was a phenomenal player and his defense probably swings him ahead of Uggla, but its interesting to compare/contrast the steady slap hitter with good defense to the guy with spectacular power from the middle infield.

 

And Renyel Pinto really is a joke. There was good enough reason to think that he wouldn't even be brought back this year. That's a far cry from all-decade setup man.

 

I think Ryan Dempster is a tip of the hat to the beginning of the decade, and he deserves more respect than AJ Burnett. Seriously, Burnett only had one winning season with comparable talent around him, and I think in the case of a guy like Burnett there was a reason why a guy with poor command, attitude, and pose wasn't pitching consistently or deep enough to get the wins that a frontline starting pitcher should get. Burnett was a Marlin was a case of unfulfilled potential. He got signed to big contracts after being a Marlin and even started to fulfill more of his potential, but when you rule out the excitement factor and just look at the results, I just can't see how you could put Burnett over other Marlins starting pitchers. And why do people forget about Pavano's outstanding season in 2004?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, Fruit Loops was a closer for most of '03 and a good part of '02 so maybe that's why they didn't put him as SU. Other non-closers like Kiko, Nelson, Miller, Gardner, and the such who had better times here than Pinto didn't last too long (though Pudge is on the team). Pinto isn't that bad of a choice.

 

I actually think the OF is worse than Pinto being SU. Cody Ross and Cliff Floyd should be above Niner and JP.

 

I was thinking about Cliff Floyd myself. Unless they wanted to have a "real" CF for the third OF spot, choosing Pierre over Floyd was a mistake.

 

Niner was probably a mistake too if they are only considering his 2003-2005 numbers. I'm guessing there were some intangibles at play here.

 

Also- I would put Willingham over Niner too and possibly over Ross (Cody's superior defense complicates this).

You mentioned exactly why I mentioned Cody above Hammer. Hammer was the better bat but when you bring defense, position, and versatility into account I'm taking Cody.

 

And I don't think they cared about having a "real" CF, as Niner was probably a real 1B at that point and Miggie was barely a real 3B. JP gets there based on being exciting on the '03 team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jeff Conine is obviously on this list for sentimental reasons. There is simply no reason why he should be on there over Ross, Willingham, Floyd, and maybe even Encarnacion.

 

The most interesting position to ponder is second base. Luis Castillo was a phenomenal player and his defense probably swings him ahead of Uggla, but its interesting to compare/contrast the steady slap hitter with good defense to the guy with spectacular power from the middle infield.

 

And Renyel Pinto really is a joke. There was good enough reason to think that he wouldn't even be brought back this year. That's a far cry from all-decade setup man.

 

I think Ryan Dempster is a tip of the hat to the beginning of the decade, and he deserves more respect than AJ Burnett. Seriously, Burnett only had one winning season with comparable talent around him, and I think in the case of a guy like Burnett there was a reason why a guy with poor command, attitude, and pose wasn't pitching consistently or deep enough to get the wins that a frontline starting pitcher should get. Burnett was a Marlin was a case of unfulfilled potential. He got signed to big contracts after being a Marlin and even started to fulfill more of his potential, but when you rule out the excitement factor and just look at the results, I just can't see how you could put Burnett over other Marlins starting pitchers. And why do people forget about Pavano's outstanding season in 2004?

 

I'm probably taking Uggla because I think his bat puts him above Castillo's glove (and great bat of his own), but just barely.

 

As far as Pinto being a joke, would you like to tell me which non-closer reliever you'd rather have seen on the list? Just a few guys have been better than him and all of them were 1 year wonders.

 

And really, there was good enough reason that he wasn't going to be brought back, but it wasn't performance based, it was salary based. He drives me crazy with his giant WHIP and loves of walks, but his 3.70 ERA career ERA (3.23 last season) keeps him here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Statistically speak, Lui > Uggla in terms of total (Luis had two seasons on him), but Uggla = Lui when it comes to average person season (3.5 wins for Uggla, 3.2 wins for Luis, so extremely close to the point where you can't really say definitive one over the other).

 

And yeah, Floyd had the highest OPS of any Marlin hitter during the 00's with at least 1000 PA at .944. Kevin Millar was 4th, behind Cabs and Hanley, .894 OPS. Statistically speak, Floyd >>> Millar = Ross = Willingham > JP >>> Conine

Link to comment
Share on other sites

just read the article and all i can say is WTF is up with pinto being on the team. he's a solid reliever but all-decade....really

 

and aj burnett should definitely be on the team

 

 

 

Disagree. He wasn't coachable, wouldn't listen to his catcher, was more interested in what the radar gun said after every pitch than he was actually being a "pitcher", and he was a club house cancer. PLUS he was told to clean out his locker with a week left in the season.

 

 

And yet he still dominated to the point where he deserved to be on the All Decade team.

 

He had a losing record here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jeff Conine is obviously on this list for sentimental reasons. There is simply no reason why he should be on there over Ross, Willingham, Floyd, and maybe even Encarnacion.

 

The most interesting position to ponder is second base. Luis Castillo was a phenomenal player and his defense probably swings him ahead of Uggla, but its interesting to compare/contrast the steady slap hitter with good defense to the guy with spectacular power from the middle infield.

 

[/b]And Renyel Pinto really is a joke. There was good enough reason to think that he wouldn't even be brought back this year. That's a far cry from all-decade setup man.

 

I think Ryan Dempster is a tip of the hat to the beginning of the decade, and he deserves more respect than AJ Burnett. Seriously, Burnett only had one winning season with comparable talent around him, and I think in the case of a guy like Burnett there was a reason why a guy with poor command, attitude, and pose wasn't pitching consistently or deep enough to get the wins that a frontline starting pitcher should get. Burnett was a Marlin was a case of unfulfilled potential. He got signed to big contracts after being a Marlin and even started to fulfill more of his potential, but when you rule out the excitement factor and just look at the results, I just can't see how you could put Burnett over other Marlins starting pitchers. And why do people forget about Pavano's outstanding season in 2004?

 

 

Kind of a play on words I guess. He wasn't going to be brought back because we were looking to trade him and couldn't find the right deal. The exact same reasoning you give for him not being on the list in this post you could be saying about Uggla. "There was good enough reason to think he wouldn't even be brought back this year."

 

When Pinto is on he is almost unhittable. Problem is that he does make the game a bit more interesting at times that many feel comfortable with. But he is a work horse and his overall record isn't bad. Let's see what a new pitching and bull pen coach does for that.

 

Now Pavano. I don't think anyone is forgetting his '04 season. I think everyone realizes that was a career season for him. Funny how that happens in a contract year. "He got signed to a big contract after being a Marlin".........He never matched those numbers before that season or since. He dosen't deserve to be in the conversation.

 

Personally I would question Pudge making the team. He used us to get what he wanted and everyone knew that was the plan from the initial signing. Prove he could last an entire season at a high level and then scoot for the bucks. Unfortunetly I can't find an argument against having a defensive whizz with a decent bat regardless of the reasons of his short stay. Nor can I really pick a better replacement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

just read the article and all i can say is WTF is up with pinto being on the team. he's a solid reliever but all-decade....really

 

and aj burnett should definitely be on the team

 

 

 

Disagree. He wasn't coachable, wouldn't listen to his catcher, was more interested in what the radar gun said after every pitch than he was actually being a "pitcher", and he was a club house cancer. PLUS he was told to clean out his locker with a week left in the season.

 

 

And yet he still dominated to the point where he deserved to be on the All Decade team.

 

He had a losing record here.

 

Something he cannot control. Bottom line, he pitched very well for us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jeff Conine is obviously on this list for sentimental reasons. There is simply no reason why he should be on there over Ross, Willingham, Floyd, and maybe even Encarnacion.

 

The most interesting position to ponder is second base. Luis Castillo was a phenomenal player and his defense probably swings him ahead of Uggla, but its interesting to compare/contrast the steady slap hitter with good defense to the guy with spectacular power from the middle infield.

 

[/b]And Renyel Pinto really is a joke. There was good enough reason to think that he wouldn't even be brought back this year. That's a far cry from all-decade setup man.

 

I think Ryan Dempster is a tip of the hat to the beginning of the decade, and he deserves more respect than AJ Burnett. Seriously, Burnett only had one winning season with comparable talent around him, and I think in the case of a guy like Burnett there was a reason why a guy with poor command, attitude, and pose wasn't pitching consistently or deep enough to get the wins that a frontline starting pitcher should get. Burnett was a Marlin was a case of unfulfilled potential. He got signed to big contracts after being a Marlin and even started to fulfill more of his potential, but when you rule out the excitement factor and just look at the results, I just can't see how you could put Burnett over other Marlins starting pitchers. And why do people forget about Pavano's outstanding season in 2004?

 

 

Kind of a play on words I guess. He wasn't going to be brought back because we were looking to trade him and couldn't find the right deal. The exact same reasoning you give for him not being on the list in this post you could be saying about Uggla. "There was good enough reason to think he wouldn't even be brought back this year."

 

When Pinto is on he is almost unhittable. Problem is that he does make the game a bit more interesting at times that many feel comfortable with. But he is a work horse and his overall record isn't bad. Let's see what a new pitching and bull pen coach does for that.

 

Now Pavano. I don't think anyone is forgetting his '04 season. I think everyone realizes that was a career season for him. Funny how that happens in a contract year. "He got signed to a big contract after being a Marlin".........He never matched those numbers before that season or since. He dosen't deserve to be in the conversation.

 

Personally I would question Pudge making the team. He used us to get what he wanted and everyone knew that was the plan from the initial signing. Prove he could last an entire season at a high level and then scoot for the bucks. Unfortunetly I can't find an argument against having a defensive whizz with a decent bat regardless of the reasons of his short stay. Nor can I really pick a better replacement.

 

I still feel used thinking about that '03 championship.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Guest

Well, Fruit Loops was a closer for most of '03 and a good part of '02 so maybe that's why they didn't put him as SU. Other non-closers like Kiko, Nelson, Miller, Gardner, and the such who had better times here than Pinto didn't last too long (though Pudge is on the team). Pinto isn't that bad of a choice.

 

I actually think the OF is worse than Pinto being SU. Cody Ross and Cliff Floyd should be above Niner and JP.

 

I was thinking about Cliff Floyd myself. Unless they wanted to have a "real" CF for the third OF spot, choosing Pierre over Floyd was a mistake.

 

Niner was probably a mistake too if they are only considering his 2003-2005 numbers. I'm guessing there were some intangibles at play here.

 

Also- I would put Willingham over Niner too and possibly over Ross (Cody's superior defense complicates this).

You mentioned exactly why I mentioned Cody above Hammer. Hammer was the better bat but when you bring defense, position, and versatility into account I'm taking Cody.

 

And I don't think they cared about having a "real" CF, as Niner was probably a real 1B at that point and Miggie was barely a real 3B. JP gets there based on being exciting on the '03 team.

What I meant was that Pierre is capable of actually playing CF, which is different than simply choosing the three best OF. Cabrera was at least considered a 3B/LF/RF on the depth charts. However, it's still important to consider Cabrera's defense when weighing his overally value to the team.

 

In other words, a Floyd/Ross/Cabrera OF makes sense but a Floyd/Willingham/Cabrera OF does not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, Fruit Loops was a closer for most of '03 and a good part of '02 so maybe that's why they didn't put him as SU. Other non-closers like Kiko, Nelson, Miller, Gardner, and the such who had better times here than Pinto didn't last too long (though Pudge is on the team). Pinto isn't that bad of a choice.

 

I actually think the OF is worse than Pinto being SU. Cody Ross and Cliff Floyd should be above Niner and JP.

 

I was thinking about Cliff Floyd myself. Unless they wanted to have a "real" CF for the third OF spot, choosing Pierre over Floyd was a mistake.

 

Niner was probably a mistake too if they are only considering his 2003-2005 numbers. I'm guessing there were some intangibles at play here.

 

Also- I would put Willingham over Niner too and possibly over Ross (Cody's superior defense complicates this).

You mentioned exactly why I mentioned Cody above Hammer. Hammer was the better bat but when you bring defense, position, and versatility into account I'm taking Cody.

 

And I don't think they cared about having a "real" CF, as Niner was probably a real 1B at that point and Miggie was barely a real 3B. JP gets there based on being exciting on the '03 team.

What I meant was that Pierre is capable of actually playing CF, which is different than simply choosing the three best OF. Cabrera was at least considered a 3B/LF/RF on the depth charts. However, it's still important to consider Cabrera's defense when weighing his overally value to the team.

 

In other words, a Floyd/Ross/Cabrera OF makes sense but a Floyd/Willingham/Cabrera OF does not.

Well, Floyd played a little CF so I thought that's what you were getting at but I see what you mean.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can view the fact that Pinto is listed as the all time best setup man of the decade as either a condemnation of the bullpen the past 10 years or as a big plus in Beinfest's favor that he has been able to cobble together retread pitchers year-in and year-out and put together some decent bullpens. It is probably a little of both.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share



×
×
  • Create New...