It's has no roof, it doesn't have enough seats nor enough parking. The location is unworkable, the site is too small and you can kiss off Broward and PBC fans.

 

The Marlins go from being a tenant in one building to tenants in another. And because it's being built by the city it will cost 35% more than it has to.

 

This project is DOA.

35,000 - 40,000 is not enough?

 

It sounds like the perfect amount of seating for Baseball..

 

38,000 will be perfect in my opinion.It has no roof?The stadium will be roof ready for future considerations.Whatare you expecting?The city building a 500 million dollar stadium by the bay just because the team won World Series?Disregarding how bad the City is financially.The Marlins are only putting 10 mil up front and "137" million is future revenue.You shouldn't be complaining and this proposed deal is actually good for both side.

The stadium maxes out at 35,000, 10% smaller than the Marlins say they need in a facility that they would control and not have to share revenue from parking, concessions, etc. with anyone. Since the Marlins will remain a tenant, meaning they will have to share those revenue streams and lose out on other revenue sources completely. That is unless you think the neighbors who will gladly park cars in their yards will be willing to kick back 70% to the Fish (lol).

 

I'm not looking for a waterfront property I don't know where you got that from my post.

 

And then there's the roof, the key to season ticket sales. Being "roof-ready" is a joke, the single greatest cost in building a new stadium is the roof structure, not to mention the two years it would take to construct (meaning nowhere to play during that period).

 

I stick by what I said, this project, as offered by the city is DOA. Again, you are being overly critical here. Let's look at some things - and make sure we seperate fact from speculation.

 

First of all, the stadium is NOT maxed out at 35,000. The plan is to include BETWEEN 35,000-40,000 seats. From Sun-Sentinel:

The plan unveiled by Wisconsin-based Hammes Co. projects a 35,000- to 40,000-seat ballpark

The Marlins have said that they dont need more than 35K and stadium projects have been consistent with that figure. They have been trying to for an 'intimate' atmosphere. This is good because they have better control on supply and demand - the supply wouldnt exceed the demand (like a 65K football converted stadium does) and they can increase prices based on the fewer seats which could offset revenue demands. And where did you get that figure of a 35K seat facility being 10% fewer than the Marlins demand?

 

You theory that the Marlins would have to share revenue is speculation. It is true that the parking situation is not answered yet, and seeing Miami has to be one of the worst cities for public transportation - this gives an opportunity to get the Metrorail to work. Sure, that may take more money, but projects like that always pay for themselves and money can be raised. Parking on neighborhood yards could be dealt with and the Marlins may have to offer competitive parking prices. Revenue still comes to them - a lot more than they are currently getting from H-Bomb for parking.

 

Also, any business housed in a building is a tenant. Do the Marlins own the stadium? The land? What will be their operating costs? These questions have yet to be answered, and you certainly do not know the answer. Besides, the Marlins will have total control over their own revenue and operating costs as they certainly wont have to sign a lease agreement ANYWHERE near the one signed for JRS. In fact, an argument could be made that production costs will be curtailed somewhat due to the fact that the two stadiums would share operational facilities such as food service and locker rooms

.

 

The roof is not a dead deal here either. This is a process, whereby both sides work. The roof is not planned now, but you dont know what could happen over the next 3 months. I think if this is the plan, the Marlins will find a way to add a roof. That said, this is not all that bad of a deal. It is the most tangible one to date and opens up for competitive offers. This deal seems economically viable, eventhough all the finances are not worked out. But to call this deal DOA is ridiculous. All the facts arent even made known yet. You are just being overly critical and negative.

Here is a copy of the action plan from here on out for the Marlins with the OB plan:

 

1) Establish a development program for each stadium alternative

 

2)Define program requirements

 

3)Prepare conceptual design

 

4)Perform constructability analysis

 

5)Establish master project budget/schedule

 

6)Identify available funding sources

 

7)Prepare draft funding document

 

8)Establish term sheet

 

9)Secure appropriate project approvals

 

Taken from this link:

OB stadium proposal

 

Still a lot to work out, which is my point for reserving judgement just yet.

Here's the problem with parking. Urban parking garages cost lots of money. $15,000 a space in smaller projects, $11-13,000 in larger ones. Multiply out a 2,000 space garage and you are in the neighborhood of $25,000,000. That has to be bonded out and where does the money come from? Parking revenues. 81 games X 2000 cars X $10.00 per car = $1,620,000 per season, maximimum without taking into account upkeep, staffing, etc. I don't think that's enough to bond out the project, nevermind pay anything the Marlins.

 

I'm moderating my position. Something is better than nothing. There's a plan in play, that's a step forward. Maybe the city allows the Marlins to build their own parking garage on a portion of the site and lease it back to the city for Hurricane games and other uses.

 

I still don't like the location as a longterm home for the Fish, I think its bad for South Florida but okay for Miamians if the parking can be resolved. It's not my money and if Loria wants to go along who am I to say he's wrong?

 

I'd like to see the county step up with the some alternative (read outside of the city of Miami) site plans including some deal with PPS to build on one of their satellite parking lots. Even though it is less convenient for me personally I believe PPS, with it's surrounding highway system is the best place in South Florida.

 

You could build parking out there much cheaper than in Miami. You could modify your lease with PPS to allow Dolphin Holdings to develop some of the outparcels on the perimeter as compensation. You could use the parking lot as part of an intermodal center for MetroRail, bus rapid transit and commuter parking using dollars from the recently passed transportation tax.

 

If they build it, I will go whether it's the OB or somewhere in Broward or wherever (excepting PBC, it's not worth the trip with kids). But for the health of franchise I still beieve somewhere in the vicinity of PPS is best.

But for the health of franchise I still beieve somewhere in the vicinity of PPS is best.

I agree with you, but that will take the deal out of the hands of the City of Miami. The county would still play a role with their 73 millions.

 

But, I think the Marlins are insisting on a close to Downtown location, and I haven't seen any proposals from the city of NMiami or MGardens or whatever city PPS is located at now.

You theory that the Marlins would have to share revenue is speculation.

 

The roof is not a dead deal here either.

 

But to call this deal DOA is ridiculous. All the facts arent even made known yet. You are just being overly critical and negative.

 

Okay, so where else will the money come from to bond out the project? All stadium projects at least those involving a municipal bond issue, are pretty much the same - you develop a projected income stream from ticket sales, food, parking and concessions - and you see if you can sell it to Wall Street. If you can you're in business.

 

What other sources of revenue can there be? It's a no-brainer to assume the city will take a piece of everything sold, used or consumed at the facility. I don't know why you would argue that point.

 

I agree the roof may be included as negotiations move along and that would be a big big plus. If the Marlins were able to finance their part of the project privately (but including the county $73 mil) and were able to have control of bidding and contracting the facility (as opposed to having the city manage construction of the project ala the Performing Arts Center debacle) then perhaps the project can be brought in on time and within budget. I would guess what the Marlins will look for is a land lease for their portion of the site and rent on the co-joining section. But what I fear is that the county, in order to pay for the shared portion of the structure, will demand is a significant if not most of the revenue from the luxury boxes, which in itself will be a deal-killer.

 

I originally used "DOA" in the context of the presented plan and I stand by that. Without parking, without a roof and without a chance to make a profit you haven't convinced me to change my tune. But I do agree with you there may be a more pro-Marlins plan yet to be negotiated? yes, I do.

there's the civic center parking not far from the OB.

you all need 2 stop complaining about the deal (those who are) 1st off, its not a bad deal at all. 2nd, I personally would go just about anywhere to watch my Marlins play. Even if that means going 2 watch them play at a crappy old broken down stadium (like veterans stadium). This is way bigger news than VLAD or anything else. this is what runs the future of the franchise right here

I would be glad with the current plans if they can make the parl look more "retro" like the ones in Baltimore and Texas. Only thing i dont like is that there wont be as much regular seating on the 1st base side which is my favorite for games.

I would be glad with the current plans if they can make the parl look more "retro" like the ones in Baltimore and Texas. Only thing i dont like is that there wont be as much regular seating on the 1st base side which is my favorite for games.

Good observation on the 1st base seating. My guess is that 1st base seating would be considered premium seating.

This is just my opinion, but this looks absolutely horrendous. Shouldn't the new ob look at least remotely like a football field? The most succesful team in the last 20 years is going to play in that crap? Goodbye home field advantage. The baseball stadium looks goofy too. What is with one base line's seats being taller than the other. If you are going to do something this expensive, why not just find some more money and build an actual baseball stadium? What exactly is the price difference if we where to just build an open air, no roof stadium somewhere else and leave the ob as it is? If you are going to spend a crapload of money on a stadium, why not just go all out and get something that doesn't look retarded? Im not understanding the ob Idea at all.

First off, I like it. It is preliminary with no real arcitechture firm on it yet, but so far, so good. The quirks of sharing the luxury suites outweigh the money being saved.

 

The OB's open end would be closed again similar to Alltel Stadium/Gator Bowl in Jacksonville, which is to move the seats that are being kept from south sideline (sideline where press box and "luxury suites" at current OB is) which is being cropped to make room for the ballpark.

 

The ballpark would have baseball seating, but one deck rises higher than the other on the 3B baseline.

uh what about a domed stadium??

dammit people! why do you think the seatings deck is so weird? this is where a roof would be installed, but they will use it for seats until it is, if ever installed so it won't be ugly.

Im from broward, but im all for the OB site plan, that whole area is full of latin people, that dont come to PPS because of the drive and the traffic going north at that time, which would make it easier for them to just walk a few blocks to the stadium, it would be like one of those Latin parks in south america, that are just riots of drunken fans, and im all for that, it would give the marlins an identity, Latin players would be down to come to florida because of this, the fact that it would be in a completly latin enviroment.

 

We could become a soccer-like franchise playing baseball ... haha which might not make any sense but i could imagine the chants and rallies coming from there. now my problem would be the parking ... but if metro rail works than im all for it... imagine trains full of marlins fans ready to rock some shiite.

 

Bottom line is we need a stadium, and if this is the best plan to suit our needs than go for it ... i dont wanna go from being the Florida Marlins to the North Carolina Crabcakes. (meaning moving the team)

 

Now about the ROOF subject, i think if they can just cover the seating area a bit it would help a whole lot, i dont think we've had many rainouts in the past few years, I know that weather tends to scare off some people because it has that effect on me. but the marlins feel taht this is a must.

 

A STADIUM ANYWHERE IN SOUTH FLORIDA IS BETTER THAN ANYTHING and i think that a stadium in that area would really get the latin community going.

If this happens, the crowds will be riotlike every day 2 years after the stadium opens. It would be pretty awesome.

Ok am I missing something. What is all this talk about revenue sharing and crappy seating because they have to share with the hurricanes. It says no where in the article about anything of that, Its a whole new ball park. Why would they have to pay the Hurricanes to play in their own stadium.

 

Heres a direct quote from the article:

 

The plan envisions a ballpark that would be built adjacent to the Orange Bowl near downtown.

 

But it looks like you some of you guys misread things, well all of you except Juanky as he seems to understand the same thing as me.

It would be a simple ballpark next to the simple football stadium in the most politically complex city in the south.

 

What don't people understand? BTW, for big pix from channel seven and complete article links visit my ballpark news website. freshly updated with the news and new pix.

 

http://groups.msn.com/marlinsballparknews

It would be a simple ballpark next to the simple football stadium in the most politically complex city in the south.

 

What don't people understand? BTW, for big pix from channel seven and complete article links visit my ballpark news website. freshly updated with the news and new pix.

 

http://groups.msn.com/marlinsballparknews

People dont understand that one of the proposed ideas was building a stadium next to the OB. All they talk about is playing in a revonated OB. I mean there are two proposals.

Guys, it would be a seperate ballpark just for the Marlins next to a renovated Orange Bowl.

dagreatone, i dont think there's one poster on this thread who misunderstood what would be built.

dagreatone, i dont think there's one poster on this thread who misunderstood what would be built.

Well true it was only one person.

 

My bad :confused

 

 

The Marlins go from being a tenant in one building to tenants in another. And because it's being built by the city it will cost 35% more than it has to.

What exactly is the advantage of connecting the 2 stadiums and making them look completely retarded? The price tag for this is $375 mil correct? If we can raise that amount of money why can't the marlins just build their own stadium and not force the hurricanes to play in what looks like it will be the stupidest looking stadium on earth?

The connections allows for the sharing of kitchens, luxury seating and storage which will save money.

 

I don't care what they do as long as it doesn't destory the OB and deny the Marlins a ballpark.

Has a twin stadiums or 'two headead monster' ever built before anywhere?

What exactly is the advantage of connecting the 2 stadiums and making them look completely retarded? The price tag for this is $375 mil correct? If we can raise that amount of money why can't the marlins just build their own stadium and not force the hurricanes to play in what looks like it will be the stupidest looking stadium on earth?

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