cubangm

Your right rferry Mota and Pierre are not free agnets until after the 2006 season. They will get big raises next year though cause they will be 5th year arbitration eligible players. http://www.mlb4u.com/freeagent.html

I believe the Red Sox have 10 days to trade Payton just like the Yankee's did or had with Stanton and Quantril. After the 10 days pass then he's a free agent. I like the idea but Houston is not a seller and they would likely have to get a better package than that to trade Lidge.

Red Sox get: AJ Burnett(RHP) Orlando Palmero(OF) Astros get: Jason Stokes(1B) Jay Payton(OF) Yorman Bazardo(RHP) Jon Papelbon(RHP) Marlins get: Bronson Arroyo(RHP) Brad Lidge(RHP) With this, the Astros get a solution at 1B in the long run and 2 good young pitching prospects to take the place of Lidge, plus Payton, who will like being in a position to start. The Red Sox get a replacement outfielder that can play all 3 positions and wont complain about playing time and a frontline starter in case Schilling cant return to form. The Marlins get a dependable starter(who I have wanted to trade for forever, before this season and would set up our rotation like this: Willis, Beckett, Arroyo, Olsen, Moehler), whos presense wont require Leiter or Valdez to be re-inserted into the rotation, and a closer that coupled with Mota could turn into what the Dodgers had with Mota/Gagne(you know, if you had the lead after the 7th you pretty much won). It works out for all 3 teams, I would think so anyway...and you know if I am proposing a trade of Burnett(my all time favorite Marlin, just ahead of Lowell and Gonzo), I am serious I think it would work. It seems pretty fair on all sides although we might have to give up another prospect to get Houston to budge. Problem is with the way Houston has been playing lately they ain't sellers anymore. I like your trade idea.

Robert Andino "Shortstop Robert Andino was rated by the Riptides as the best defensive shortstop in the entire draft. He has great hands, a big arm that's been clocked as high as 92 mph off the mound and good range. However, his bat is a major question, and it's unlikely if he'll ever hit." http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:WZgyu8...tart=9&ie=UTF-8 "Marlins SS Alex Gonzalez can become a free agent after the season, and shortstop prospect Robert Andino, 20, is a rising star in the organization. Gonzalez is a Gold Glove-caliber fielder, but his offense is iffy. He led National League shortstops in homers and RBIs last year, but his on-base percentage ranked at the bottom of all regulars. A lack of selectivity remains an issue. Andino, a second-round pick in 2002, also has an outstanding glove and is a questionable hitter" http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:Dbo3jv...tart=1&ie=UTF-8

We have seen what a good defense does for a pitching staff. IMO Alex is worth 5M a year. If we don't resign him we will be losing a lot of defense up the middle. He is bat looks like it's coming around and 260-270 BA and 10-15 HR's a year would be fine for a 7-8 hitter. No doubt his defense will be missed. But he is hitting 260-270 in his free agent year with very little power. It will be a shame and a waste ofmoney giving him that contract when we have Andino and Wilson. I have heard alot of good stuff about Andino his OBP is improving lats time i checked it was 340 he's only 21 and I believe he's an above average fielder yes he won't be an Alex Gonzalez but I don't think he will be a liabilty or harm the team in any significant way.

And what happens if we come out of the gates after the ASB, and rattle off 6 wins in a row? What then? Then this will be the best team to ever don a uniform and no one will remember anything they said today or yesterday, because they're too caught up in the elation of winning. This board needs to find an even keel. It oscillates so much from one extreme to the other; this site is either "pit of despair", or "glory glory hallelujah". It's hard sometimes in this day and age of immediate satisfaction, where if we're hungry we can eat fast food, or if we want to speak to someone we can use a cell phone. Baseball is not football; it's not a visceral sport of adrenaline and excitment. It's slow paced and the excitement builds through the drama that comes from watching the entire strtegy-filled nine innings. In the same way, the season's excitement builds as the drama ebbs and flows over the course 162 games. Baseball is not a game of instant gratification, you cannot know now what will be tomorrow. It's a game of long run statistics, where you need to be patient. Every game cannot be the "be all" or "end all" of existence. Is this team underperforming? Yes. Can this team win with its current components? I think so. Will it play better with some roster tweaking? Probably. Part of being a baseball fan is sitting back and watching as the drama unfolds. What makes the 9th inning come from behind victory so exciting is watching the first 8 innings, because no matter what happens, you have those three outs waiting for you at the end. To truly savor that victory, you had to have watched the whole game and experienced what had previously led up to it. It's the same way with a season. It's a long season. Be patient, sit back, take your lumps when you get them (and you will get them - every teams does), enjoy your wins when you get those (but not too much), because all of it adds to the drama at the end. If they turn it around I'll be the first to admit I was wrong and you can hold me to it.

I no longer really trust your opinion CubanGm. It seems like you just want to get rid of half the team regarldess of the consquences. And you ask what Treanor has over Willingham: experience. Maybe not alot more, but Willingham wasnt converted to a catcher until last year, and the experiment didn't go overly well. What you have sugested is rebuilding, which is not needed. I hope to high heavens we resign Gonzalez and Mota, and I dont think Mota will command anymore than 2.5 million, and Gonzo MAYBE gets 6.5-8 million, Pierre will get anywhere inbetween 5 and 8 million, but alot of the other pieces(Lowell, Delgado, Lo Duca, Castillo) are signed long term, the others are available for cheap(Beckett, Olsen, Cabrera, Willis), you dont replace proven talent with minorleaguers when its not ready and the pieces you have suggested moving are easily resignable. Gonzalez proven he can field but not much else. Has always had a low batting averga and horrible. Do you really want to commint like you said between 6.5 - 8 million on him for the next 2-3 years? I say he gets 6 million a yera from the white sox. Mota will not be back with the Marlins with Mckeon as manager and im positive he will not settle for 2.5 million unless he is closing and why would we want him to close when he cracks in those situations. Pierre is the one who I would miss the most. My argument is he's getting older players lose there speed as they get older, he has no arm or any power whats so ever and we have a lead off hitter already. He will likely cost 7 million or more if he is a free agent which I believe he is. Lowell doens't have a good arm, he has a horrible contract, he's slow, and his # have been on the decline. At this point we might have to keep him cause nobody else wansy him. Best we can do is trade him for another high priced player with a lesser contract. My idea Jose Contreras Matt Treanor- let me just find his career stats. Major league experince short of one full year. Yiu say he manages the pitching staff well? same was said of Ivan Rodriguez and when he left we where suppose to struggle. How hard is it to manage a staff when yiu have great arms like Beckett, Burnett, and Willis. Jorgensen is better fielder than him at AAA than him but is just as bad as him as a hitter. He deserves to be in the bigs just as much if not more. In fact Treanor is more known for being married to Misty May than anythng else.

When you demean a roleplayer like Treanor you undermine everything else you said. Perhaps that your opinion but it isn't mine. Considering the backup catchers in the game the Marlins are lucky to have him and his experience with the staff is an asset that should be recognized Are you talking about Treanor here?? cause what experience does this man have? he deserves to be in the minor's and he ain't either the best fielding or hitting catcher in the system.

How can you dawg Mike Redmond? Dependable, hard working, probably one of the most possible non-starters in Marlins history. Treanor gives you that too. Id rather see Treanor behind the plate than Willingham, hitting ability aside. I think my list is about as close as your going to get. Hard working yes the rest no. What is he doing for Minnesota and what is he getting payed? I'll say Treanor > Redmond

and what type of free agent centerfielders are there?? imo ur an idiot n we should resign all 3 Mota will likely cost 3-4 Million and and can't close why do we need him? 3-4 million for a set-up man is alot. How much do yu think it will cost to sign Pierre and Gonzalez? It will likely take 15 million or more to sign all three.

I forgot Spooneybarger thanks for reminding me Hot_Rod_Todd. Although not sure if he will be ready. Johnson ain't ready and Treanor yuck he doesn't belong on the team now. He's another Redmond glad we got rid of him.

Yes! A team rebuilt with "free agent X!" I like the makeup of that team! Especially this mystery setup man, mystery closer, two starting outfielders, and two starting pitchers! Those should be especially talented and fun to watch! Can't wait! Even with Lowell back will still have around 20-30 million cash free to sign players. Im pretty sure they can fill those needs with that cash. Pierre, Mota, Gonzalez are free agents. Out of the 3 only only possbilities are Pierre and Gonzalez and I don't think we should sign either. Andino and Wilson can replace Gonzalez and his inconsistent bat. Will miss defense but is that worth 5 million a year? and I say either trade Pierre this year or just get the draft picks. Dolphin Stadium, Pro Player w/e is a big stadium and we a CF with a arm out there and someoen who can hit for more power. Pierre ain't getting younger and he only has speed which declines as you age.

a bit early for this no? dont forget Kensing is probably in the pen too, possibly Bazardo as well and Willingham would hopefully start if there was a spot for him Early maybe but realistic. I didn't forget about Bazardo and Kensing but I did forget about Joe Dillion. Bazardo and Kensing I don't feel they are ready and we can't have only rookie's out there. But if they are the best we got then they play.

C Paul Loduca 1B Carlos Delgado 2B Luis Castillo SS Free agent, trade, Josh Wilson, Robert Andino 3B Miguel Cabrera LF Chris Aguila, Trade or Free agnet CF Free agent, Trade RF Jeremy Hermida Bench Damion Easley- SS, 3B, 2B Josh Williangham-super sub plays C, 1B, LF, RF, 3B?? Joe Dillion- 3B, LF, 2B?? Free agent Free agent Rotation Josh Beckett Dontrelle Willis Free agent, Trade, (KIP Wells???) Scott Olsen Free agent, Trade, Jaosn Vargas Relievers Closer- trade, free agency set up- trade, free agency middle relivers- Chris Resop, Randy Messenger, Tim Spooneybarger??? rest trades or free agents Young, talented, and fun team to watch. Not the team we have right now

I hated when we point our struggles towards to Mike Lowell, Juan Pierre(although he is cominng around), and Al Leiter and soem of you say don't worry they will come around lets stop being negative. Well its been 3 months already? what makes you think they are going to later? we are a small market team we can't make those gambles. Im aware we are only a couple of game sout of the Wild care and Division but these Marlins don't do anything to Merit a trade for improvement. There to streaky. Delgado, Beckett, Willis, Cabrera, Loduca, will all be back nexy year and they are our best players righ now. Only big losS will be Burnett and we can get quite alot for himif we trade him. Hermida, Aguila, Dillion, Olsen, Williangham, Vargas??, Messenger, Resop all make the minimum and will eiether be back as well or will be ready to help us out hext year.

I think we should be sellers right now and fire McKeon, Robinson and hire a young manager. Guys we should trade. Burnett- will bring in quite a bit in return. I want best talent available for the best SP in the market and likely the best player as well. I don't care if those players are in Low A ball. Im afraid Marlins just want close MLB talent even though it ain't the best packageout there. Mecir- trade him if we can get anything decent in return Lowell- trade him for a taco supreme as long as the other team picks up his full contract Encarnacion- IMO probably the best hitter right now in the Market cause the only other name I hear out there is Preston Wilson. Jones- can help out alot of teams. He is getting up there in age I say trade him as well maybe as part of a package with Burnett or another player on the list. Mota- same thing will be a free agent and near the deadline alot of teams will be looking for a power reliever. He has already proved he can't close and we won't give him an another oppurtunity to close either which means he won't resign with us. Trade him Pierre- although Im a big fan his arm is killing us, and he has no power what so ever. His SB have decline quite abit and he has been caught alot lately stealing. He's not signed long term while Loduca and Castillo are and they don't hit for that much power either. We need a better arm out there in CF and more power as well. Gonzalez- im pretty sure we can rape the white sox in a trade and im sure they are interested can package him with another player as well My point is trade any potential free agent we have no interest in resigning. By trading all these players will get younger, save money and still contend next year. Leiter, Conine, Hampton, Gonzalez, Encarnacion, Pierre, Mota, Pudge, Mecir, Jones, hopefully Lowell if traded, Burnett contracts will be off the payroll. We could likely cut 25-40 mil off the payroll for next season. Although some guys will get raises we can still sign alot of talent. We also have alot of players who are close to MLB ready as well. What do you guys think?

I agree. Jack has to go. He doesn't use his bench wisely i dont think hes helping the team at all. With a new coach i think this team will get the kick to the ass they need. I agree but don't stop there. Fire Bill Robinson as well. This team needs a young manager or someone who will play the youngster more often and manage the bench more wisely as well as the bullpen. It seems everytime Mckeon makes a move it a bad move. He has lost his touch and this team has lost their heart. It seems like they are playing the same way when Torborg was the manager. We have the talent which is the thing that bothers me the most. This teams doesn't deserve any help via trade and I for one will be pissed if Beinfest trades a good package of young players with loads of potential to another team to try an improve this team when we have our players playing with no heart. Why is Dillion on the AAA roster? y did we call Aguila up when we aren't going to use him? For that send some like Mark Little up to the bigs. Why did they call up Williangham? they used him so little that they had to send him to Jupiter to act as a hitter for the rehabbing Ismael Valdez who ended up hitting him and injurying him.

Josh Johnson Final line. IP H R ER BB SO HR 7 5 3 3 1 8 0 With AJ likely leaving and Moehler as well we should keep Johnson, Kensing, Bazardo, Vargas and let them battle it out during spring training. I get the feeling if we make a trade with KC for Jeremy Affledt Johnson likely will be part of the package which I don't like very much.

He's basically building up arm strength again right now and I think he was on a pitch count. I look for him to have a better outing next time. Also Allison is basically making the jump from high school to low A ball. IMO he's the best pitching prospect we got and should be untouchable.

Washington have been very lucky and they have won alot of one run games.

I agree 100% with what Le Batard had to say. We need more power its alright not to get any Homeruns from Castillo and Pierre but not getting them from Loduca, Gonzalez, and Lowell is killing us. Encarnacion is playing over his head as well.

Ready to start ahh........ don't know. relieve yes. should we call him up to be a reliver? no If the front office decides to call up someone to make a start from the minors he deserves the call. Who would i rather see start? Leiter, Bump, Vargas. no doubt Vargas

I liked what i saw out of Messenger today. He was consistenly between 91-96 and showed a pretty good curveball. Most importantly he missed alot of bats. Also the hits the cubs got off him weren't hard hit balls.

Player IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA Vargas 7.0 6 2 2 2 11 1 2.84 This is his line so far. I think he can help the Marlins right now as a reliver coming out of the bullpen but I prefer he finish the year in AA. I been very impressive by Messenger today and Resop yesterday. Hopefully Jacks starts giving them the ball in more diffcult situations then starts starts giving Aguila and Williangham starts.

I like Resop alot and im a fan of Messenger. Im happy both are in the majors and trying to help the Marlins.