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Eovaldi's numbers put him as a #4/5 starter at best and a worse producer than David Phelps alone. Garrett Jones is playing in Korea now and Domingo German missed all of last season and a lot of this season after getting elbow surgery (that said I still like German and disliked getting rid of him.) Nothing really needs to be added about Martin Prado's performance this year other than a potential top 5 MLB third baseman. I promise you that the Yankees would LOVE to undo that trade. It's the best trade return-wise the Marlins have made the last four years. EDIT: Didn't read the post fully, although I don't even think it can be argued "at worst" to be even. It's a win no matter how you look at it. The only way it becomes an even trade is if Domingo German makes the majors by age 26 and becomes a star, which is incredibly unlikely.

The Marlins actually got footage of the moment Stanton announced to the team that he was returning this season.

Either that or standing put and making minor moves that will barely change next year's team

Only option is trading value for value. Meaning making guys like ramos, ozuna, dietrich, bour and maybe even a bigger piece available via trade

Thus why I said the idea was greater than the execution. The front office knew the closing window and saw a resource available in Rodney. They went for a trade that a team that isn't competing wouldn't think of doing. I also argue against Paddack being our top trade chip. He was good, but he was 20 years old in low A ball with 6 starts. Paddack was also an 8th round pick, so it isn't like he started out with 1st round value. I'm actually surprised at the time of the trade that Paddack alone was able to net Rodney in an All Star year. But then again the Padres knew Paddack probably had long term value. Then again, they didn't account for his hard throwing inevitably leading to arm problems and TJ surgery. Like I said, bitch about this trade all you want but it doesn't make a difference now. Paddack won't pitch again until likely 2018 and won't see the majors until 2020 at the earliest. More likely 2021. Does this front office even have a plan for 2021? Are we even sure this front office will be around to see 2021 if they didn't win this season? I followed Paddack's short minor league career more than most here, and I think he has a bright future, but the trade wasn't bad at the time for what Paddack was at the time of the trade and what Rodney was at the time of the trade. And now with Paddack injured, both the Marlins and the Padres suffered from making that trade. There are no winners here and isn't worth complaining about. We didn't lose it because Paddack's value diminished (similarly to how Domingo German's value died after we traded him to the Yankees and he hurt his arm). Based on NOW value, it's a net gain of zero and a net loss of zero. Cashner is one worth complaining about more given the fact that Naylor and Capps will be playing next season. Plus the way this board talks about Capps you would think he saved 50 games this season and had an ERA under 1. He's a greatly talented player with a unique delivery that lends itself to arm problems and inconsistencies. He's great value for a team but also an incredible risk. That said I didn't like the trade.

The idea was to go for the win this season. The farm system was flawed enough that this was the year. And a closer putting up pre All Star break Rodney numbers would have the Marlins over .500 right now. Again, thought process was correct, like many of the trades and signings the Marlins have made since 2014, but all those ideas have been put in the hands of people who can't make the RIGHT decisions.

And trust me I loved Paddack. Couldn't stop raving about him this season. But he has no major league value for another three years. He's much more valuable to a team like the Padres, who are planning a long term rebuild, than a Marlins squad that went all in for 2015/2016 and will have to re-prioritize things going into next season.

Didn't get to write about Paddack when the trade occurred but I've talked about him previously. He was putting together an incredible four of five start stretch where he looked like a superstar. The videos I'd seen of him pitching made him look like a top prospect, but he wasn't there yet in terms of longevity. In terms of where Rodney was at the time, Paddack actually was a good price, possibly even a low value for a player who was an All Star this year. People on the board seemed upset with the trade because it was apparent we traded for a guy at his peak value and a heavy decline was inevitable. In terms of pure value at the time of the trade, Paddack for Rodney made sense. Thinking long term, Paddack had big potential value and Rodney was due for regression. The discussion is a bit funny since Paddack is now getting TJ surgery and may be out at least half of next season. He likely won't make the majors until he's in his late twenties, serving him useless until the core team (Stanton/Fernandez/Ozuna) are traded and gone anyway. Team went for the win this season. Was Rodney the right decision? No. But the idea was correct. Just execution was flawed.

Cashner Thread: Fernando Rodney Thread:

The good news is we have records of people's opinions after each of those trades on this board.

Welcome to the internet.

Rodney is an incredible player. I never thought I'd get to see Carlos marmol pitch again yet here we are

REALMUTO

This team continues to find new ways to make me sad.

It's 2-0 and nobody here cares despite it still being a race. Yelich believes in THE Miracle.

Stanton, the starting rotation, late season injuries and wrong trade acquisitions. Stanton has cost this team wins by not staying healthy and not playing like a superstar, the starting rotation has faltered with major reason being the bombing of Wei-Yin Chen, and statistically the moves to acquire Rodney/Cashner have hurt the team. I also have stated and stand behind the fact that this season is a product of two full seasons of front office damage starting in 2015. Moves made starting in December 2014 have created a farm system with no depth and a major league team with poor lineup balance (lack of power, poor on-base ability players beyond Stanton/Yelich) and injury concerns. The front office made some risks in the moves they made, some that they had to have known were risks, and have seen them either succeed not highly enough or fail spectacularly. A rotation that potential could include Andrew Heaney, Carlos Rodon, and Anthony Desclafani has become one that features Adam Conley as its current #2. A team that could still have in its farm system Francis Martes, Colin Moran, and Jake Marisnick in exchange for basically Jarred Cosart and Kike Hernandez. A reminder that Moran and Marisnick have appeared in the majors, with Martes being a top MLB prospect while Cosart and Hernandez are both gone. Lets not forget that to get Jim Benedict, we gave up a damn fine pitching prospect in Trevor Williams, a pitcher who has 2.53 ERA in AAA this year and will be in the Pirates starting rotation next season. The Prado-Eovaldi trade has been a win, but I'll bring up a potential rotation including Eovaldi and Domingo German (who appeared in the Futures Game) as well. The lineup issues are far less minor, but looking through all the trades I'm amazed at the minor league and major league pitching depth we've given up on over the past two and a half years. There's a damn good pitching staff that has passed through Miami and gone elsewhere. I am very, very angry when looking at the potential rotation we could be employing right now. Some of the trades needed to happen, but I do not think the Heaney trade needed to happen. I don't think the Cosart trade needed to take place. I don't think the team needed to give up Trevor Williams for a pitching coach (regardless of this board praising the move relentlessly here) and I don't think the team needed to get rid of its only promising pitching prospect in Chris Paddack for a flawed reliever. I feel no sympathy for this franchise at the moment. Injuries have not cost the Marlins this season. Injuries did not cost the Marlins 2015 and will not be to blame in 2017 (although that will always be the narrative). A flawed front office and moves that should be ostracized publicly are the reason for the consistently below average product that is put on the field year after year.

I think a hugely underrated point in this entire season has been the future of the bullpen and the three guys you mention. All those guys are 25/26 and have proven that they can be effective bullpen arms next season. The emergence of these guys makes it completely acceptable for the team to look to trade AJ Ramos this offseason (and is a move the team should desperately look to do). I know people hate this thought but Rodney as closer next season, Phelps as the 8th inning pitcher, and Barraclough/Wittgren/Ellington around those two makes for a potential formidable bullpen. I think there have been some important contributors this season and some positive signs people are overlooking with the recent collapse. People forget that J.T. Realmuto was a question mark going into this season, with many people wondering if we'd need to find a new catcher in the offseason. Realmuto's established himself as a franchise guy now. Justin Bour has solidified first base, and Prado was huge this year (although he may have worked himself out of Miami's price range next year). Yelich being consistently great, Ozuna having a respectable year, Ichiro being red hot the first half of the year, Dietrich hitting well, and Conley growing into a trustworthy rotation guy. There's quite a few positives this season, even if there are question marks about sustainability for next year. As for the negatives, the two major ones that I have (and things that concern me going into next season), are Giancarlo Stanton and the starting rotation. No matter the team around him, Stanton not being able to play a full season or be a consistent lineup presence should be pointed out as the #1 reason we are not in the playoff lead right now. He's supposed to be a big lineup presence and has played like a middle tier outfielder this season. That can't happen. The starting rotation at this point is Fernandez, Conley, and Chen. It's likely the team keeps Phelps in it to start next season (even if I'm apprehensive about it), and Koehler is the #5 unless there's a trade. The biggest problem is that the Wei-Yin Chen signing has backfired. Even before the injury, Chen did not show signs of improving in his move from the AL to the NL, and his pure stuff was just not good. We signed him to be a #2 pitcher here, and he didn't even perform like a #5. Conley/Phelps/Koehler as the team's #3-5 would barely be acceptable if Chen was pitching like a #2, but without it we've got four #5 pitchers pitching outside of Fernandez. Only a team with the Chicago Cubs lineup could survive with a pitching staff like that. The team desperately needs to find new starting pitchers (as the farm and majors are filled with #4/5 potential guys). Unfortunately, Prado is about to get paid, Chen's contract is adding to the cap, and Stanton's average salary is about to skyrocket ($14.5 million next year, then $25 million regularly). Even if the Marlins weren't a stingy team, the significantly rising team cap is going to prevent the team from signing most of the good names available. There are no minor league trade chips to acquire such players, and dipping into the major league squad would mean replacing those guys. It's a tricky spot that is going to need some clever maneuvers to put a winning team together next season. Something this front office has shown no ability to do in recent moves.

Jose Fernandez vs. Trevor Bauer. Nobody believes in this team right now. We are three games out of a wild card spot and have lost 5 of our last 6. One more loss and this team is back to .500. Without Stanton. Without Bour. Without Adam Conley. The Marlins are in desperate need of a miracle. Or better yet. THE Miracle. The only question before the Marlins big playoff run is...Do you believe in The Miracle? Day 1. It begins.

I christen "The Miracle" the official rally icon of this franchise. All game threads must now include mention and video proof of The Miracle, and The Miracle will lead us to the promise land. We shall make the playoffs as long as we all stand together and truly believe in THE Miracle. It has been known.

Finally, somebody has the same appreciation for Mike Bennett that I do. Lets get things started. Do you believe in THE Miracle?

In the post your quoting I directly say that I know his injuries so far haven't been related to being in the field. It's more of a thought that I'd rather have him 1. Stay Healthy 2. Focus on hitting and not worrying about playing the field too much 3. Improve as a hitter.

I was looking at an old post and remembered making a recommendation back in early 2015 that Stanton should move to 1st base to mitigate injury concerns. It was just funny seeing that and how he's gotten injured in 2015 and 2016 now. If the front office wants to really think outside of the box and want to keep Stanton healthy, they should consider trading Bour and moving Stanton to 1st base permanently. I know injuries in the field haven't been his problem but it would be a way to keep him from exerting too much effort in the field and focusing primarily on his offense.

Nah was speaking purely on offense. Realmuto is light years ahead of him defensively (which is interesting since Telis has spent his entire life at catcher while Realmuto started out as a high school SS). Telis could grow into the contact hitter that Realmuto is now, although I think Telis has better plate discipline and could provide a better career .OBP than Realmuto. They're very similar players offensively, which is why I think this month is a great chance to give Telis some playing time and showcase him to team's for a potential trade in the offseason.

Stanton shouldn't be traded until after 2017. He's under contract for just $14.5 million next season. Still an incredible value for a player of his caliber. The 2018 season is when he's scheduled to make $25 million, and he's not even able to possibly exercise his opt out until after the 2020 season. The team would essentially be taking on a 3 year, $77 million deal with a possible 7 years, $210 million tacked on if Stanton accepts. I actually think the Marlins will pay Stanton $25 million in 2018 and trade him after that. At age 28 he's bound to have the best season of his career and will have teams clamoring for him even with that god awful back-end contract looming. I don't think we should or even have to think about a Stanton trade for another season or two. His value is low at the moment. He's had back-to-back .950+ OPS seasons and is coming off an .800 OPS year. I honestly see 2017 as the end of the current team's window, so it doesn't hurt to see if Stanton can come back, be consistent, stay healthy all year and lead the team to a playoff spot.

Telis is doing amazing in AAA this year. He would've been in the majors on most other teams this season. He's suffered terrible misfortune that Realmuto has grown into a franchise catcher (and basically the player Telis could grow into). Destin Hood absolutely obliterated AAA pitching to start the season, then cooled off and has started to pick back up again recently. He's simply another bench bat to add with the rosters growing. He definitely has potential to be a Justin Ruggiano like surprise player next season. Nefi Ogando we saw recently and isn't all that great as a reliever right now. Brian Ellington is likely a mainstay in the 'pen next season, and I'm still shocked he got sent down after putting up an ERA under 1 in the majors this season.