dim

Well I can't even follow his games again until 2018, and then if he even reaches the majors it'll be 2020 at the earliest. By that time Loria won't be owner, Rodney will have retired, and Stanton/Fernandez will be playing for the Los Angeles Dodgers.

Michael Mader (one of the two pieces traded for Cervenka) has a 2.40 ERA in 30 IP with the Braves AA squad. He's still just 22 years old. It's almost like this front office doesn't want a farm system.

Well the team isn't going to trade Realmuto. Or Gordon. Or Yelich. And not Stanton or Fernandez this season. Everybody else I haven't mentioned yet previously wouldn't net us anything in a trade. we're arguing terminology here. It's reasonable trade targets the team can and should put out there this offseason.

I'm just simply listing the teams tradable assets. I wasn't ranking them but yes ozuna and Ramos are going to net the most by far.

I'm not arguing that. But that's the list of players the Marlins 1. Are open to trading and 2. Another team would trade somebody for

Replace Rodney with Koehler then.

This guy sucks.

Jose is for a 2017 offseason discussion not 2016. The team should give 2017 one more chance with the current cast of players. Jose isn't a free agent until after 2018, and his value in a trade for a full season of Jose before an extension would be the same as after 2017 barring injury. All the pieces are in place for the team to stay the same in 2017 and unload Stanton/Fernandez in the 2017 offseason (Stanton's contract becomes $25 million a year then). The trade chips for this offseason are Dietrich, Ozuna, Telis, Bour, and possibly Rodney.

Four years is the max a team will give him this offseason. Three is more likely at a $15 million a year rate.

Just went through the article and saw the Marlins quietly fired 7 of the minor league instructors. While that makes sense given the top to bottom minor league failure (I think only 1 of our minor league teams had a winning record), it'll be used as an excuse to deflect blame away from the front office and scouting department's inadequacies.

In terms of hitters he's correct. Brian Anderson is the guy with the best chance and he hasn't exactly lit the world on fire in the minors. We have a bit more depth at pitcher with guys like Brice, Peters, Poteet, etc..., but the team has been so bad drafting the last few years. I have no idea how the scouting department hasn't gotten a complete revamp at this point (and this isn't just a fan complaining for change for the sake of change, they've legitimately failed at their jobs).

It's not surprise they want to re-sign him. It's whether they're willing to put $15 million a year on the table to do so.

I didn't say you attacked me personally. Never did. You attacked the idea of somebody defending Williams as a player. That annoyed me.

I'm not trying to start anything or get you riled up Admin. I'm just stating how your comments were in this thread (which was very unlike every other post you've made in this board). The first post of this thread is filled with sarcasm, as is the comment "This is worse than the outrage over losing the great Kike", " nah man we dealt the next kershaw today. But he was nothing until we traded him of course", " P.S. waaah", " You're crazy man. Williams was going to be Cy Young especially if we didn't trade away elite players like Kike and Matty D to play behind him. With Chris Hatcher slamming the door on his wins, DYNASTY." You just happened to be aggressively sarcastic for whatever reason. You made valid points but it just happened to be followed by some stuff that added nothing to the conversation.

Your first post is literally sarcastically saying "Ugh Trevor Williams was a future HOFer", basically insulting anybody who dared to defend him here (which was really just me). There's others in the thread but you came off as aggressive in being dismissive in this thread. Not upset about it but that's how it was.

The move happened basically out of nowhere earlier this season. He wasn't doing amazing in Jupiter, but then again nobody does. Then one day it was announced he was released. Picked up by the White Sox and put back down in low A and he's doing fine again (it should be noted Woods I believe was injured to start the year and was starting to put up better numbers as the season progressed. Then he was cut).

Smear was the wrong word. More like you went with sarcastic responses rather than having a legit dialogue about the move in this thread.

Oh wow I completely forgot about Mader/Seymour for Cervenka trade. FYI Mader has a 2.40 ERA in short time in AA with the Braves. He's pretty much at the level Trevor Williams was. It's not even one big deal that is killing the team. It's all the small ones where undervalued players break out and become better prospects, while the guys the Marlins acquire are gone by the end of the season having been negative values to the team. It simply upsets me that the Marlins could have a farm system if they wanted to but have become dead set on not developing their own players for the last three years. Just about every prospect who has had a breakout year has been traded. Even KJ Woods was released for reasons I still don't know (he's currently putting up a respectable .836 OPS with the White Sox single A squad.) The Marlins have self sabotaged the team and its future. Trading away Trevor Williams for a pitching coach (regardless of his reputation) is just another example of the Marlins not valuing their own farm system and giving their players enough time to progress as prospects as they should.

I'm still not sure why you've been so adamant about putting down Williams since the trade happened. I get the other people on the board who were ok with the trade because of the possible effects of Benedict (which are non-existent so far), but you went on a smear campaign of Williams to moment I defended him as a prospect.

So Trevor Williams made his major league debut yesterday. Went 3 innings on got the win for the Pirates. Just a quick bump to remind people of some moves they didn't care about at the time that they should have.

Looking into it, I don't see 1st base being a priority for teams this offseason. The Astros would've been a good fit to get value for Bour if they didn't go and sign Yulieski Gourriel to a $50 million deal in July. Like Nny said, he's more valuable to us than the likely value offered in return. I'm just saying that I wouldn't make him off limits in trade discussions. I don't view Bour as indispensable for the team's long term future. He's a good player, but there are 1st baseman out there like him.

Basically my answer. There's a lot of factors in play here. It all depends on how the free agent market goes, what the Marlins plans are for the offseason (whether it be tinkering with the roster, full on re-doing it, going in for free agency, etc...), and how much our current players are valued in the trade market (namely Ozuna/Koehler/Hech/Dietrich/Telis)

At least he'll get his beard back.

Yelich is the best handled player by the Marlins that I can remember. He's absolutely everything that people kept trying to tell me Jeremy Hermida was back in the day. Yeah I said it. Stanton gets the praise, and rightfully so, but Yelich is the kind of player you build a team around. Consistently great player, a true five tool player (maybe four if you discount arm strength), a great contract and somebody who should only improve with age. He makes absolutely no headlines with problems or an inflated ego off the field. Not to mention he's given the team around 500 at bats all three full seasons he's been in the majors. Easily my favorite Marlins player currently. It's interesting to think what his potential can be given he is just 24 years old. A sudden surge in power and he basically becomes Bryce Harper.

I remember going over the last three or four years and I don't think there were "several". I remember looking and the Yankees trade stood out as well as Bour in the AAA portion of the Rule V draft was a steal. However, I think one people the Marlins fanbase here tends to believe is the Marlins horribly lost a bunch of trades, when many of them are less extreme than people believe. Players we've traded including Nathan Eovaldi, Austin Barnes, Andrew Heaney, Kike Hernandez, Chad Wallach, Domingo German, Chris Paddack, Colin Moran, Jake Marisnick, and a few other players haven't exactly left the team and set the world on fire elsewhere. Many of them are performing at below average rates in the majors and the minors. The biggest lost values that the Marlins have given up in the last few trades are Francis Martes and Anthony Desclafani. When it comes to Disco, he was a low end top 10 prospect in our system who started out as a reliever and put up solid, low 3 ERA type numbers in places like A and AA ball. Think a slightly better version of what we have now in Luis Castillo in the system. Disco's ceiling was expected to be a #4 starter, and that was a consensus among fans and the front office. His 2016 performance has come as a complete surprise that not many people at all can say they were expecting. Martes, who is now a top MLB prospect, was 18 years old and had only pitched in the Gulf Coast League when we traded him. At that point players like him are traded or released all the time and nobody thinks twice about it. He was honestly a bit of a throwaway in the Astros trade that even Houston didn't know what they were getting. Again a situation where nobody predicted. When I think about why the team is in the situation it is in, I don't think about the prospects we've traded as the end all be all of problems. The team of guys we traded are mostly low end starters or future bench players. The problem has always been the lack of return from the short term players acquired. Guys like Latos, Cashner, Haren, Rodney, etc... put up mediocre to absolutely bad numbers and are off the team the next season. Using the big free agent money available the last few years to sign guys like Buck, Bell, Reyes, Salty, Morse, and Chen. While Chen is to be determined, the previous five players were bad players who lasted only a season or two. The failure in recent drafts to restock the farm system has made all of these moves more glaringly apparent than they otherwise would be. The lack of spending in the international free agent market also leaves the team limited. It's a long line of bad bets the front office has made. Making a couple of these moves would go by the wayside and few would notice, but making multiple of them back to back has put all of them in the forefront. There's a ton of moves the front office has made that I agreed with at the time (Latos trade, Morse signing, Chen signing, acquisition of Prado). There's a ton of moves they've made that I disagreed with at the time (Dodgers trade, Cashner trade, trading away Trevor Williams for a pitching coach, etc...). It honestly doesn't matter. The point is there's enough bad moves made that we are in the situation we are in. Somebody should be held responsible. But instead I guarantee you that injuries will be blamed for this season rather than years of decision making that has failed to build proper depth.