I think EdCanes meant that Wayne is going to lobby for someone to defeat this, but the question is can he?

 

We shall have to wait and see.

Wayne has a ton of money... and money speaks for himself...

The bill pass today, BUT now comes a "KING" size hill($$$$$). :plain

 

I'm stuck up here in bum-freakin' new hampshire so I missed this morning's state house conference call but Ed is essentially right. The PPS guys are going to pull out all the stops to kill anything that helps the Marlins stay in South Florida. Their sole intention is to drive the Marlins out of the market. You have to believe they are lobbying furiously to kill this bill.

 

Since I'm on the equivalent of a 19.2 bps (rotary, analog) line let me use this post to say I was listening to the Red Sox flagship this afternoon radio and man, when you think of crap on QAM it just makes you want to puke. Real baseball talk by guys who are passionate about their baseball. We deserve better in South Florida.

 

Also, since I don't have cable either (yeah I'm out in the boonies) I haven't seen BBTN or SportCenter, I hope they're giving us the props we deserve as THE GREATEST TEAM IN BASEBALL !!!!!

 

Three shut-outs in a row, back to back sweeps, the best record, Cabs the home run king, an era below 1.50, and then there's Big Choi, may we are the bomb!

 

Go Fish!!!!!!! Be back next week.

ok, maybe I'm plain dumb, but why do the Dolphins want us out of Florida? I understand why they'd want us to stay at Pro Player, but let me ask you this too: doesn't our lease expire by the time that we'd be moving anyway? I mean, Wayne is getting our money either way, so for the next 3 years at least, he's getting the money for his 'fins signing bonuses. It just seems a little out there for me to believe that there's a conspiracy for the Marlins to be run out of the state by the Dolphins...

Wayne doesn't want the Marlins at Pro Player either, at least that's what he says...

 

As far as running the Marlins out of town, the only reason would seem to be a matter of competing for sports fans dollars down here, & I don't think the Dolphins ever need to worry about fan support.

 

It wouldn't even be a location to compete with Pro Player for events, since a baseball stadium wouldn't be used for concerts or anything other than baseball.

ok, maybe I'm plain dumb, but why do the Dolphins want us out of Florida? I understand why they'd want us to stay at Pro Player, but let me ask you this too: doesn't our lease expire by the time that we'd be moving anyway? I mean, Wayne is getting our money either way, so for the next 3 years at least, he's getting the money for his 'fins signing bonuses. It just seems a little out there for me to believe that there's a conspiracy for the Marlins to be run out of the state by the Dolphins...

Supposin' the Marlins get a great new money making stadium in South Florida. They've shown they can put together a team on a small budget, maybe they could put together a dynasty with a big budget from a new stadium. You think Wayne wants to see the Marlins be a really strong team, with lots of revenue that he can't touch? That would kill his ego AND it would potentially cut into his local Dolphins revenue. There's only so many sports dollars to be spent and if the Marlins become the king in SoFla, it could hurt the Dolphins. People don't go to Dolphin playoff games now as it is.

 

Wayne's #1 choice is to have a mediocre Marlins team playing under a terrible lease where he gets the revenue. His #2 choice is for the Marlins to get out of town altogether. The last thing he wants is a successful Marlins team getting revenue he can't get his grubby little hands on. Picture Lionel Barrymore in "It's a Wonderful Life."

ok, maybe I'm plain dumb, but why do the Dolphins want us out of Florida? I understand why they'd want us to stay at Pro Player, but let me ask you this too: doesn't our lease expire by the time that we'd be moving anyway? I mean, Wayne is getting our money either way, so for the next 3 years at least, he's getting the money for his 'fins signing bonuses. It just seems a little out there for me to believe that there's a conspiracy for the Marlins to be run out of the state by the Dolphins...

Supposin' the Marlins get a great new money making stadium in South Florida. They've shown they can put together a team on a small budget, maybe they could put together a dynasty with a big budget from a new stadium. You think Wayne wants to see the Marlins be a really strong team, with lots of revenue that he can't touch? That would kill his ego AND it would potentially cut into his local Dolphins revenue. There's only so many sports dollars to be spent and if the Marlins become the king in SoFla, it could hurt the Dolphins. People don't go to Dolphin playoff games now as it is.

 

Wayne's #1 choice is to have a mediocre Marlins team playing under a terrible lease where he gets the revenue. His #2 choice is for the Marlins to get out of town altogether. The last thing he wants is a successful Marlins team getting revenue he can't get his grubby little hands on. Picture Lionel Barrymore in "It's a Wonderful Life." bingo I can't believe I agree with a gator

ok, maybe I'm plain dumb, but why do the Dolphins want us out of Florida?? I understand why they'd want us to stay at Pro Player, but let me ask you this too: doesn't our lease expire by the time that we'd be moving anyway?? I mean, Wayne is getting our money either way, so for the next 3 years at least, he's getting the money for his 'fins signing bonuses.? It just seems a little out there for me to believe that there's a conspiracy for the Marlins to be run out of the state by the Dolphins...

Supposin' the Marlins get a great new money making stadium in South Florida. They've shown they can put together a team on a small budget, maybe they could put together a dynasty with a big budget from a new stadium. You think Wayne wants to see the Marlins be a really strong team, with lots of revenue that he can't touch? That would kill his ego AND it would potentially cut into his local Dolphins revenue. There's only so many sports dollars to be spent and if the Marlins become the king in SoFla, it could hurt the Dolphins. People don't go to Dolphin playoff games now as it is.

 

Wayne's #1 choice is to have a mediocre Marlins team playing under a terrible lease where he gets the revenue. His #2 choice is for the Marlins to get out of town altogether. The last thing he wants is a successful Marlins team getting revenue he can't get his grubby little hands on. Picture Lionel Barrymore in "It's a Wonderful Life." bingo I can't believe I agree with a gator Ed's gone to the dark side of Florida... :lol

ok, maybe I'm plain dumb, but why do the Dolphins want us out of Florida? I understand why they'd want us to stay at Pro Player, but let me ask you this too: doesn't our lease expire by the time that we'd be moving anyway? I mean, Wayne is getting our money either way, so for the next 3 years at least, he's getting the money for his 'fins signing bonuses. It just seems a little out there for me to believe that there's a conspiracy for the Marlins to be run out of the state by the Dolphins...

Supposin' the Marlins get a great new money making stadium in South Florida. They've shown they can put together a team on a small budget, maybe they could put together a dynasty with a big budget from a new stadium. You think Wayne wants to see the Marlins be a really strong team, with lots of revenue that he can't touch? That would kill his ego AND it would potentially cut into his local Dolphins revenue. There's only so many sports dollars to be spent and if the Marlins become the king in SoFla, it could hurt the Dolphins. People don't go to Dolphin playoff games now as it is.

 

Wayne's #1 choice is to have a mediocre Marlins team playing under a terrible lease where he gets the revenue. His #2 choice is for the Marlins to get out of town altogether. The last thing he wants is a successful Marlins team getting revenue he can't get his grubby little hands on. Picture Lionel Barrymore in "It's a Wonderful Life." I don't want to start a war, but think about what you're saying, it may be the most absurd thing I've ever heard! Wayne started the Marlins, great, he's a business man, he cleaned up selling the team, making Henry his b***h with the lease, etc. He's moved on. Do you know how many teams share markets? Additionally, do you know how many teams shared owners at one point?

 

Steinbrenner is far and away more vindictive than Huizenga, and he was a controlling partner in the Nets, he sold them, made his money, and is happy to see them move on under new ownership IN BROOKLYN no less so it threatens his Yankees even more.

 

The Dolphins are the Dolphins, one of the top 5 franchises in the NFL; and the only reason they don't fill the pro for playoff games is because they're suffering Atlanta Braves syndrome, the Dolphins are expected to be there.

 

I hate Wayne as much as anyone, but this is really over the top.

If Wayne didnt want the Marlins to compete with the Dolphins, he wouldnt have brought the Marlins as an expansion team into S. Florida in the first place.

I don't want to start a war, but think about what you're saying, it may be the most absurd thing I've ever heard! Wayne started the Marlins, great, he's a business man, he cleaned up selling the team, making Henry his b***h with the lease, etc. He's moved on. Do you know how many teams share markets? Additionally, do you know how many teams shared owners at one point?

 

Steinbrenner is far and away more vindictive than Huizenga, and he was a controlling partner in the Nets, he sold them, made his money, and is happy to see them move on under new ownership IN BROOKLYN no less so it threatens his Yankees even more.

 

The Dolphins are the Dolphins, one of the top 5 franchises in the NFL; and the only reason they don't fill the pro for playoff games is because they're suffering Atlanta Braves syndrome, the Dolphins are expected to be there.

 

I hate Wayne as much as anyone, but this is really over the top.

1. Why would he dismantle the team and ruin the market before he sold it? If you have an asset you want to sell, you don't destroy the value of the asset before you sell it. Because he didn't want the team to do well here without him because he was afraid of Marlins revenue canibalizing Dolphins revenue. And he couldn't get enough of an return on his investment on the Marlins to want to keep them, even though they were marginally profitable.

 

2. Wanye is incredibly vindictive and feels he got screwed by South Florida. We wouldn't build him a stadium. He also thinks he got screwed by MLB by not standing up to the union in the strike of '94, taking the hit on cancelling the World Series and not getting anything out of it.

 

I really believe that Wayne doesn't want a good Marlins team down here in their own stadium. Why would he? What would be in it for him? All Wayne cares about is what's in it for him.

If Wayne didnt want the Marlins to compete with the Dolphins, he wouldnt have brought the Marlins as an expansion team into S. Florida in the first place.

Things have change alot since Wayne brought the Marlins into town. Remember Wayne also wanted a stadium before he broke up the 97' team. The money is not the same for sports and sports team. I understand this topic is very difficult for some that are fans of both team but the truth is truth.

If Wayne didnt want the Marlins to compete with the Dolphins, he wouldnt have brought the Marlins as an expansion team into S. Florida in the first place.

At the time, he felt that MLB was going to take on the players at the end of the next contract and get a salary cap. Once the owners caved in against the players in '94, he couldn't control his costs and couldn't make enough money on the Marlins for it to be worth while. It's okay for the Marlins to cut into the Dolphins if you're making a ton of money on both teams. You don't want the Marlins to cut into the Dolphins revenue if the Marlins profitability is a lot lower than the Dolphins because the Marlins costs are so high.

 

Wayne was one of only 2 baseball owners who voted against the settlement with the players after the 94 strike.

there's only a finite number of sports entertainment dollars in south florida and everytime the marlins sell 40,000 seats or the Heat sell 20,000, that means that someone, somewhere in south florida won;t be buying season tickets to the dolphins next season.

 

the other reason, and the one I maintain is at the root of why the PPS guys don't want the Marlins in this market is because a retractable roof venue will be the preferred place (over PPS) for secondary events - soccer, rodeos, car shows, rock concerts - because you don;t have to worry about the weather, whether it be rain, sun, wind, etc.

 

as for the PPS guys wanting to the marlins to leave PPS, they want them to leave the market first, if not they want them to stay in PPS regardless of what they say publically, and pay off their $84 million in bonds for them, which is essentially what has been happening.

If Wayne didnt want the Marlins to compete with the Dolphins, he wouldnt have brought the Marlins as an expansion team into S. Florida in the first place.

Things have change alot since Wayne brought the Marlins into town. Remember Wayne also wanted a stadium before he broke up the 97' team. The money is not the same for sports and sports team. I understand this topic is very difficult for some that are fans of both team but the truth is truth. I think you're having a harder time understanding this. Wayne is one of the smartest business man in the state of Florida. He owned the Dolphins, expanded the MLB and NHL markets into South Florida. I understand the conept of "sports dollars" and entertainment dollars, but you really are being a little extreme in the Wayne bashing. The fact that the Marlins suddenly became good doesn't change anything, the Heat are good, the Dolphins are always good enough, and the Panthers are fun to watch. The Dolphins don't really threaten the Dolphins' schedule, in fact, the only team that has a right to b***h about "sports dollars" being taken from them is us with the Heat's playoffs running through (potentially) a month and a half of our season, with the stretch run already having drained our first weekend home games.

 

Think about it, four sports share one market all the time and they do just fine...

If Wayne didnt want the Marlins to compete with the Dolphins, he wouldnt have brought the Marlins as an expansion team into S. Florida in the first place.

Things have change alot since Wayne brought the Marlins into town. Remember Wayne also wanted a stadium before he broke up the 97' team. The money is not the same for sports and sports team. I understand this topic is very difficult for some that are fans of both team but the truth is truth. I think you're having a harder time understanding this. Wayne is one of the smartest business man in the state of Florida. He owned the Dolphins, expanded the MLB and NHL markets into South Florida. I understand the conept of "sports dollars" and entertainment dollars, but you really are being a little extreme in the Wayne bashing. The fact that the Marlins suddenly became good doesn't change anything, the Heat are good, the Dolphins are always good enough, and the Panthers are fun to watch. The Dolphins don't really threaten the Dolphins' schedule, in fact, the only team that has a right to b***h about "sports dollars" being taken from them is us with the Heat's playoffs running through (potentially) a month and a half of our season, with the stretch run already having drained our first weekend home games.

 

Think about it, four sports share one market all the time and they do just fine... Come on there is a big difference between basketball attendance and baseball attendance...about 20-30K people. As far as Wayne, he's done far more damage in this town than good IMO. A good businessman? well ask a Dolphin fan if he is

If Wayne didnt want the Marlins to compete with the Dolphins, he wouldnt have brought the Marlins as an expansion team into S. Florida in the first place.

Things have change alot since Wayne brought the Marlins into town. Remember Wayne also wanted a stadium before he broke up the 97' team. The money is not the same for sports and sports team. I understand this topic is very difficult for some that are fans of both team but the truth is truth. I think you're having a harder time understanding this. Wayne is one of the smartest business man in the state of Florida. He owned the Dolphins, expanded the MLB and NHL markets into South Florida. I understand the conept of "sports dollars" and entertainment dollars, but you really are being a little extreme in the Wayne bashing. The fact that the Marlins suddenly became good doesn't change anything, the Heat are good, the Dolphins are always good enough, and the Panthers are fun to watch. The Dolphins don't really threaten the Dolphins' schedule, in fact, the only team that has a right to b***h about "sports dollars" being taken from them is us with the Heat's playoffs running through (potentially) a month and a half of our season, with the stretch run already having drained our first weekend home games.

 

Think about it, four sports share one market all the time and they do just fine... Come on there is a big difference between basketball attendance and baseball attendance...about 20-30K people. As far as Wayne, he's done far more damage in this town than good IMO. A good businessman? well ask a Dolphin fan if he is What are you talking about? He is far and away one of the most brilliant business minds that Florida has ever seen. Anyone who makes enough money to own three major sports franchises, take two of them to the finals of their respective sport, and spend lavishly enough on the third that they should be there is fine by me.

 

The attendance thing? OK, how about this, the NBA and NHL mirror each other in practically ever aspect, season times, playoff schedule, even the same arena in many cases! I don't want to start a war over this, but face the facts, Miami is not the only market with four major teams, hell, New York shares a National leage team an American League team, an AFC team, and NFC team, an NHL team two NBA teams, and none of the owners are trying to run them out of town. And don't you dare call Miami a small market, the fans are apathetic but no way is it a small market...

Money for Marlins clears House panel, but still faces long road

 

BRENT KALLESTAD

 

Associated Press

 

 

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. - The Florida Marlins' hopes of receiving state dollars to help them build a new stadium received a temporary boost from a House panel on Thursday, yet the Senate president remained firm that no deal to help the World Series champions will be made in this year's session.

 

The House Committee on Finance and Tax voted 17-6 to approve an amended revenue bill that included a $60 million subsidy the team has sought. But it's doubtful that the plan can advance without Senate President Jim King's backing - and he reiterated that isn't coming before the session ends April 30.

 

"Rich people getting richer off of taxpayer dollars," King said. "I don't want to be a part of that."

 

Gov. Jeb Bush, who backs the subsidy, said he was hopeful King might relent.

 

"He was pretty adamant with me a couple of days ago, but as I said, in the last couple of weeks anything can happen," Bush said.

 

The amendment does not specifically mention the Marlins, but they are the lone team that would qualify under its language.

 

The subsidy would be considered as one that would go to an existing franchise in an existing two-team facility, but would be shifted to the club leaving for a new stadium - and the Marlins, who want to leave Pro Player Stadium, are the lone Florida team that would satisfy that equation.

 

Without a new ballpark and the revenue streams it would provide, the team says its future in South Florida would be jeopardized. Team officials say they have lost millions annually, even after last year's World Series title.

 

"How much is enough to keep the world champion baseball team?" asked committee chairman Rep. Randy Johnson, R-Celebration, who said he expects the issue to receive plenty of debate on the House floor.

 

The team say a new ballpark would provide a cash influx from use of luxury-suite rentals and profits from parking and concession sales. It currently leases Pro Player from former Marlins owner Wayne Huizenga, who also profits from the parking and concessions.

 

Huizenga received the same $60 million state break - $2 million annually for 30 years - when the Marlins began play in 1993. He still has annual break, although he no longer owns the team.

 

King has reservations about giving the Marlins the break again, although the team has different ownership.

 

The Marlins are seeking a 38,000-seat, retractable-roof stadium that would open in time for the 2007 season and would cost an estimated $325 million - a figure some industry experts say is too low to be a practical guess.

 

Team owner Jeffrey Loria and the organization have committed $137 million toward construction, and Miami-Dade County has pledged $73 million. Even if they secure the state money, the Marlins would have a minimum gap of $55 million and haven't said where that money would come from.

 

The Marlins say they need to have a plan for construction of a new stadium in place by May 1, but have refused to publicly discuss what happens if that deadline passes without a deal.

 

The team had originally set a March 15 deadline, announced on the same day hundreds of thousands of fans turned out for rallies in Miami and Fort Lauderdale to celebrate Florida's World Series victory over the New York Yankees. But when that deadline expired, the Marlins simply set the May 1 date.

It is progress, so glad to see that.

 

There is still hope since Bush is supporting the proposal. :thumbup

Guys, King is only 1 vote. The others have 1 vote too.

 

If you get most Democrats (who love spending) and 2/3 of the Republicans, this can be passed.

 

I know that the Republicans from the Southern part of the state will go for it because it costs them nothing and gains them everything.

 

Republicans from the north must be sold on the idea.

 

I would look for more developments coming soon.

If Wayne didnt want the Marlins to compete with the Dolphins, he wouldnt have brought the Marlins as an expansion team into S. Florida in the first place.

Things have change alot since Wayne brought the Marlins into town. Remember Wayne also wanted a stadium before he broke up the 97' team. The money is not the same for sports and sports team. I understand this topic is very difficult for some that are fans of both team but the truth is truth. I think you're having a harder time understanding this. Wayne is one of the smartest business man in the state of Florida. He owned the Dolphins, expanded the MLB and NHL markets into South Florida. I understand the conept of "sports dollars" and entertainment dollars, but you really are being a little extreme in the Wayne bashing. The fact that the Marlins suddenly became good doesn't change anything, the Heat are good, the Dolphins are always good enough, and the Panthers are fun to watch. The Dolphins don't really threaten the Dolphins' schedule, in fact, the only team that has a right to b***h about "sports dollars" being taken from them is us with the Heat's playoffs running through (potentially) a month and a half of our season, with the stretch run already having drained our first weekend home games.

 

Think about it, four sports share one market all the time and they do just fine... Come on there is a big difference between basketball attendance and baseball attendance...about 20-30K people. As far as Wayne, he's done far more damage in this town than good IMO. A good businessman? well ask a Dolphin fan if he is What are you talking about? He is far and away one of the most brilliant business minds that Florida has ever seen. Anyone who makes enough money to own three major sports franchises, take two of them to the finals of their respective sport, and spend lavishly enough on the third that they should be there is fine by me.

 

The attendance thing? OK, how about this, the NBA and NHL mirror each other in practically ever aspect, season times, playoff schedule, even the same arena in many cases! I don't want to start a war over this, but face the facts, Miami is not the only market with four major teams, hell, New York shares a National leage team an American League team, an AFC team, and NFC team, an NHL team two NBA teams, and none of the owners are trying to run them out of town. And don't you dare call Miami a small market, the fans are apathetic but no way is it a small market... Brillant businessman? I guess, if you mean cutting the legs of your competition for the sports dollar in this town.

 

Your right he knows how to make money and cut his loses at the right time...while back stabbing your stadium partner.

 

Its a cut throat business both in the real world and in sports competition for limited sports dollars. Come on guy your smart enough to see this for what it really is. Wayne doing everything in his power to protect his revenue streams, like you say his just being Wayne a smart no brillant businessman :plain

Guys, King is only 1 vote. The others have 1 vote too.

 

If you get most Democrats (who love spending) and 2/3 of the Republicans, this can be passed.

 

I know that the Republicans from the Southern part of the state will go for it because it costs them nothing and gains them everything.

 

Republicans from the north must be sold on the idea.

 

I would look for more developments coming soon.

Senate procedure is much different. He could filabuster the bill, he could table the bill, he could do a lot to kill it. The fact that he is one person doesn't affect much when it goes to a vote, but he can sure as hell keep it from reaching that point.

At least it is moving through the process. Better than it was two days ago. We still have to problem of not having a site or plans for the stadium

It doesnt matter if every member of the Senate wants to vote for it, it the Senate President doesnt want it to be heard, it WILL NOT be heard. The only way this can even be heard is if Bush forces King to change his mind. Not only is King opposed to the bill itself, but he is more opposed to doing it with only two weeks left in the session with not enough time for public debate.

Don't? get too excited, this is really non-news.? We still have to go through the senate, which probably won't happen.? Sorry to be so pessimistic, but don't think that if it passes the house, we win; King still doesn't want it to happen, so unless that changes, we're still screwed.

Tswift, this is attached to another bill. So if King wants to stop it, doesnt he have to stop the entire bill? The question then becomes how badly does King want to stop the Marlins from getting this. You gotta figure there are bigger issues than this and since its already on there, why would King complicate the process? Even though I grew up in Florida, I havent followed the state political system much. How can King stop this even if he wanted to without stopping the house bill itself? This is the state house, not the state senate. The state senate has different procedures, and they could "table" this bill if they didn't want to vote it down. There are a lot of ways to present it, and even more ways to shoot it down or delay it further...Tswift, I understand that he could stop the whole bill, but the whole bill does not deal only with the 60 million. The bill is a "broader tax bill" which has had this element slipped in. Kind of like pork barrel spending. If King was to table the bill because the element that deal with the Marlins, wouldnt he be tabling the entire tax bill? Im sure there are other groups who have nothing to do with the Marlins who want this tax bill passed and Im sure its a bill that needs to be passed. Lets assume Hill can kill the whole bill, the question becomes will be kill the whole bill just because of the Marlins? The latter article doesnt seem to answer this issue. I want to know more about the whole "broader tax bill" as opposed to just this element.

 

 

This bill has gotten out of committee so thats a good start. It's possible that King would simply make it obvious that the broader bill will be killed if this element is not removed and the house will not want to deal with such a hassle and will take it out themselves just to get this broader bill in in time. Based on time constraints I still dont understand how, if this bill is passed in the house as is, King can stop it without causing a larger mess. He would have to be very anti-Marlin to do so.

 

 

If you get most Democrats (who love spending) and 2/3 of the Republicans, this can be passed.

 

This isnt an issue of democrats and republicans. Democrats dont love to spend. I for one am a democrat who supports fiscal restraint and have a lot of reservations when it comes to public funding of a stadium which unlike most things democrats want to fund, probably has no benefit for the state other than keeping the team here. But we are all in some ways hypocrites for advocating such a public funding and then returning to our proclomations of "hating government spending." Lets face it. Its all self interest.

If we all chant at the next Marlins game and theres bound to be many of us there at at least one game, then we should show the state and county the Marlins fans want a stadium. The constituency is more important to the policticos than the team itself. If they were really "representatives of the people" they'd listen and pass the bill.

 

 

BTW: Admin, could pin something up like organzing for a "We want the stadium" chant at a Marlins game in their next series.