If it's Pavano and Gonzalez for Nomar, I'm down. Starting pitching is clearly our strength, and Pavano is the only FA in our rotation next season. And let's face it, A-Gon will always be a hole in our batting order.

WC

 

Only problem is:

 

Oliver

 

I rather keep AGON,rather than see Oliver stay as a starter. T-Hutch, Tejera, B-Howdy could all get offered a spot.

This is cracking me up. If Boston can't get Nomar for 12 MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR, what can we offer? The bastard isn't close to Lowell's level and he will take about 8 million (whatever his exact numbers were).

 

f*** Nomar. He is just a tad above Jeter. Unless it is ARod at SS, NOOOOOOOO SS in baseball is worth 8 million a year, much less double digit millions. Imagine what Cabrera and our pitchers will think they are worth if we sign Nomar for what he wants. He better hate Boston and him and Mia be willing to sign for about 8 million a year if we sign him long-term. Outside of getting Nomar long-term, we don't need him for Pavano even-up.

nomar hit .202 away from fenway last year he would probably hit .100 at PPS.

This deal is a little far fetched, but one thing i will say is when there is smoke there is fire. Edcanes is usually accurate. That is not to say that what he says always happens but he never has been accused of making stuff up. The Marlins may very well be talking to Boston. Maybe about williamson or another reliever. I think last year there was some talk of BK being of interest to the Fish. We also know that Beinfest really likes trot nixon. Throw in the fact that there are some former Marlins people with the Red Sox and The Red Sox farm system is empty.

It's amazing that people are ignoring Nomar's $11.5 million contract (probably $10 million due at this point in the season) and our total inability to even consider re-signing him in 2005 with payments due to Hampton and Pudge, not to mention hefty increases to most of our starting pitchers.

 

Where the heck do you think all this money would be coming from?

 

And since when is the old baseball saying "you can never have too much pitching" no longer valid?

 

God knows I want to see AJ back, healed and starting every fifth day, but the Marlins would be putting their cart before the horse (no pun intended) to start trading away A grade starting pitching before you know definitively how AJ will fare.

 

(When he does come back forget about seeing split fastballs and curves, its going to be fastball, fastball, changeup, fastball for quite a few months. He probably won't throw four curves in his first few appearances)

 

And if we haven't learned something from the Chad Fox and Tim Spooneybarger we should. Arms go out. Look at what disruption Fox's injury has done to our pen and our chances any given night.

 

With Oliver trying to sort out his mechanics and being a couple of arms short in the pen, the last thing you want to do is trade a Penny or Pavano.

 

From a trade standpoint the team has gone from being in the driver's seat to standing by the road with our collective thumbs out.

 

This trade makes no sense to me on many levels.

 

I think its all hogwash.

 

It's a pipedream.

i believe this rumor to be as false as britany spears breast

(When he does come back forget about seeing split fastballs and curves, its going to be fastball, fastball, changeup, fastball for quite a few months. He probably won't throw four curves in his first few appearances)

 

 

That's how he pitched before too

 

Anyway, I see your side of the argument and I spoke with a friend of mine who is an avid Yankee fan and when I told him of this rumor he thought it was the dumbest thing he'd ever heard. He says that if Nomar goes anywhere other than Fenway or Yankee Stadium, he's a below average hitter, and looking at the numbers...I tend to agree with him. Couple the fact that he has a history of injury and no ties to the area, and I think it's a bad decision from a baseball standpoint. I understand that there is a business side to this too, and while Nomar may not financially make sense for a cash strapped team, his star power will certainly re-energize the casual fan base (13,000 tonight?...come on!).

 

My friend also said that if we're going to "blow our load" for a rental, at least do it on someone who makes sense...Renteria, Cabrera, Ordonez, Delgado, etc. all those guys could be had too. I have to admit that the thought of Nomar in teal is tempting, but if it costs us Penny, I say no way...

(When he does come back forget about seeing split fastballs and curves, its going to be fastball, fastball, changeup, fastball for quite a few months. He probably won't throw four curves in his first few appearances)

 

 

That's how he pitched before too

You don't remember AJ's wicked curveball that broke right over the top?

 

It was freakin' unhittable.

Or his slider, he had one of them too. That is what made him so deadly.

(When he does come back forget about seeing split fastballs and curves, its going to be fastball, fastball, changeup, fastball for quite a few months. He probably won't throw four curves in his first few appearances)

 

 

That's how he pitched before too

You don't remember AJ's wicked curveball that broke right over the top?

 

It was freakin' unhittable. it was a joke because when he pitched the no-no, he said that he threw something like 4 changeups and the rest were fastballs. AJ's curve was nasty, but he pretty much just flat out gassed it most of the time...

Or his slider, he had one of them too. That is what made him so deadly.

 

I have very low (not negative) expectations for AJ contribution until maybe September and possibly not until 2005. AJ had a full complement of pitches, he's not going to be able to use all of them for quite a while.

I think the point here is that the Marlins are talking to the Red sox. They have an abundance of Relief pitching and need to restock there farm system.

Or his slider, he had one of them too. That is what made him so deadly.

 

I have very low (not negative) expectations for AJ contribution until maybe September and possibly not until 2005. AJ had a full complement of pitches, he's not going to be able to use all of them for quite a while. Anything under 4.20 ERA for him this year is awesome in my book.

(When he does come back forget about seeing split fastballs and curves, its going to be fastball, fastball, changeup, fastball for quite a few months. He probably won't throw four curves in his first few appearances)

 

 

That's how he pitched before too

 

I remember when AJ threw the no-hitter, he stated that of the 120 or so pitches he threw, that about 100 of them were fastballs...............

Or his slider, he had one of them too. That is what made him so deadly.

LOL he only has a fastball, change, knuckle curve. Or stuff related to that. If he had a slider, it wasn't that good.

and he doesn't even use the knuckle curve anymore LOL!

just picture the middle infielders for the SOX

 

Pokey Reese and Alex Gonzalez

 

... most productive combo in the bigs anyone? :mischief2

Or his slider, he had one of them too. That is what made him so deadly.

LOL he only has a fastball, change, knuckle curve. Or stuff related to that. If he had a slider, it wasn't that good. He always has had the fastball, change, hook, and slider. That is why he was so disgusting, you didn't know what was counting (when he would decide to throw them all).

Or his slider, he had one of them too. That is what made him so deadly.

LOL he only has a fastball, change, knuckle curve. Or stuff related to that. If he had a slider, it wasn't that good. and he doesn't even use the knuckle curve anymore LOL!

 

You know absolutely nothing LOL.

imo we dont make this trade...i wouldnt trade penny he's the ace of our staff again imo he pitched like one last night had great control of all his pitches it would be very sad to see a young star that gets better every year go for someone like nomar who probably we wont even be able to resign when the seasons over...

I knew it.

 

It was only a matter of time.

 

This rumor of Nomar to Marlins is quite old actually. There has been talks, mumblings, that NomaHH will sign with us as a FA this next offseason. Couple this with a new stadium on the horizon, and it seems like a good deal.

 

First of all, those of you who think Nomar wont hit are just ridiculous. This guy is a bona fide .300 hitter. He batted .359 at home and .243 on the road last season. But in 2002 he hit .328 at home and .298 on the road. So please, dont act like this guy is all of a sudden going to be a .270 hitter. He WILL hit at JRS - he may have less homeruns (I think probably about 5 less) but he will hit the ball ALL over the place at JRS. This guy would be a HUGE upgrade at SS on offense.

 

Secondly, he is a gold-glove caliber SS. He would have no problem filling in for AGon right away.

 

Lastly, he is a gamer. The guy has had some injury problems, sure. But let me ask you this, would you wanna rush back and play for a team that tried to trade you and basically disrespected you? Against the Yanks in '02, he hit .347 with 4HR. In '03, .272 with 4HR. The guy is clutch.

 

He also doesnt strike out much, and has had over 500ABs every season but '01. He may not get it this year, but I gurantee, if he wasnt disrespected this offseason, he would not still be 'injured' right now.

 

That said, I would not trade Penny for him. NO way. PAvs, yes. Because I dont think Pavs value will get much hotter than that.

 

But why trade for him now when you can just make a run at him after the season? And lose nothing but cash? Besides, I am not ready to give up on SeaBass yet. I think this guy has legitimate offensive potential. He just has to learn to hit the ball the other way and he will be a very good hitter. His D is enough to keep him in the lineup for me. But he does have to start hitting.

His defense is slipping jonny...nomah is no longer a GG caliber SS.

His defense is slipping jonny...nomah is no longer a GG caliber SS.

I seriously doubt that.

 

Let me stress, that I dont think we should trade for him right now - he is going to want a big time contract which I agree we may not be able to give him. But, he will perform because he wants that deal and it is clear he wants out of Boston because of the events that occured this past offseason.

 

I think it is safe to say that Nomar > AGon. The look of this club would change and get a big upgrade in my opinion. But I seriously doubt the Red Sox would take AGon and Pavs for Nomar, straight up. If they did, I still agree with most here that I would be hesitant to do it because AJ is NOT going to be ready for some time and wont be he usual, dominating self til probably next year. Also, I am really concerned about Oliver right now. (I know he is better than he has shown, but right now, with Fox going down, you have to be somewhat protective of pitching). I would wait til the offseason and take a chance then - if we could even afford it at that point.

Two things:

1. Penny is already locked up for the future, has more upside, is younger, and is ahead of Pavano in the rotation. So why would it be that HE would be the one going to Boston with a prospect instead of Pavano.

2. While we could argue all day about whether or not Nomar is worth a pitcher, he could screw up the chemistry in the clubhouse. There are no big names on this team, no extensive media attention. Nomar will bring all of this baggage with him, which in the end could end up hurting more than his bat will help.

If we are to get a "big name" shortstop, I want it to be Edgar Renteria. He is humble, has played here before, and would fit the team well IMO. Plus, everyone would remember El Ni?o and the biggest hit of the 90's.