Great post TSwift. Errors are the worst indicator of defensive ability.

 

How was DLee a media darling Marlins2003? The DLee hating makes me sick to my stomach...utgh. The man made great contributions to our World Series championship.

In fairness, errors are not a fair evaluation of defensive ability. Juan Encarnacion committed ZERO errors last year and didn't win the Gold Glove, hell he isn't even considered to be one of the top 3 defensive outfielders in the NL. Choi's had a few balls hit to him that he didn't get to that Lee would have had, and I don't think that there is any debating that shots down the line were automatic outs if DLee is out there.

 

I'm glad that both players are performing very similarly, and that Choi is up there as one of the most cost effective first basemen in the league, but I think that it's sour grapes at this point. The fact that we keep going back to Lee -v- Choi indicates (at least to me) that a lot of us really would like to have Lee back...I know I would.

I agree with you on several points. Yes, errors are not the tell all stat for measuring defensive performance.

 

But the point to the post is that Choi has really done quite a bit better than most expected. His defense has improved considerably from the beginning of ST. He has been picking low throws, catching tough pop ups, and had a nice back hand down the line yesterday.

 

While he doesn't have DLee speed, Choi has proven to be a smart base runner. His bat has pop and his OBP is excellent.

 

I'm just pleasantly surprised with how well Choi is doing.....and admittedly felt at the beginning of the season that DLee would be the one loss we would feel the most.

 

I now firmly believe it is Pudge.

the difference between choi and DLee on the defensive side of the ball is definitely the Athleticism.

 

DLee was offered a scholarship to play Basketball @ UNC, also. To say the least, choi was not

the difference between choi and DLee on the defensive side of the ball is definitely the Athleticism.

 

DLee was offered a scholarship to play Basketball @ UNC, also. To say the least, choi was not

But I've heard that Choi has a mean baseline jumper.... :thumbup

In fairness, errors are not a fair evaluation of defensive ability. Juan Encarnacion committed ZERO errors last year and didn't win the Gold Glove, hell he isn't even considered to be one of the top 3 defensive outfielders in the NL. Choi's had a few balls hit to him that he didn't get to that Lee would have had, and I don't think that there is any debating that shots down the line were automatic outs if DLee is out there.

 

I'm glad that both players are performing very similarly, and that Choi is up there as one of the most cost effective first basemen in the league, but I think that it's sour grapes at this point. The fact that we keep going back to Lee -v- Choi indicates (at least to me) that a lot of us really would like to have Lee back...I know I would.

I agree with you on several points. Yes, errors are not the tell all stat for measuring defensive performance.

 

But the point to the post is that Choi has really done quite a bit better than most expected. His defense has improved considerably from the beginning of ST. He has been picking low throws, catching tough pop ups, and had a nice back hand down the line yesterday.

 

While he doesn't have DLee speed, Choi has proven to be a smart base runner. His bat has pop and his OBP is excellent.

 

I'm just pleasantly surprised with how well Choi is doing.....and admittedly felt at the beginning of the season that DLee would be the one loss we would feel the most.

 

I now firmly believe it is Pudge. Amen

As much as I miss Derek I think Choi is doing his fair job of keeping up. If he can continue this then I'd say this trade worked out very well. One of those that works for both teams. Marlins saved a ton of money too doing this so now they can sign the really important guys like the starting rotation for years to come

How was DLee a media darling Marlins2003?? The DLee hating makes me sick to my stomach...utgh.? The man made great contributions to our World Series championship.

 

Lee was always well-liked by the media in South Florida but his annointing came in 2002 when he was the most vocal player to stand up and berate the then new Marlins ownership for not succumbing to Cliff Floyd's backmail attempts (to get a multi-year $10+ million per contract) and the trading of Ryan Dempster. He repeated his outrage with the FO when Torborg was fired, which further delighted the local media.

 

Once he got on his soapbox and sided with the media against the franchise his days were numbered here money or no money. I happen to take the side of ownership, obviously you (just pulling my friend's Mr. Sham's tail) believe the inmates should run the asylum.

 

There's no doubt that DLee contributed to the Marlins successes in 2003. But I also remember we (the people here at the time) kept waiting, waiting, waitng for him to heat up his bat last season. And if you go back and look at his season-long performance breakdowns on ESPN you'll see that he was (with a few notable exceptions) about as anti-clutch as they come.

 

DLee is an excellent first baseman, but in the eighteen or so home games I've been to so has Big Choi. Just this weekend Big Choi made several terrific plays at first that show me, at his age, he has a tremendous future with the Marlins ahead of him.

 

But back to the media. Why would Berardino pick DLEee to be his league MVP if not to rub it in the Marlins' face? How many times did we read in the Sun-Sentinel and the Miami Herald how much we would miss DLee? Baxter penned an erronous piece about how the team would never make up for the production of Pudge, Lee, etc. and how Lee's D was irreplacable. If Spencer has said it once, he's said it a hundred times, not to mention the rest of the sports royalty that reports or comments on the team. And because of this the national media picked it up. It seemed this spring you couldn't read a national piece on the Fish without reading how the team was doomed without Pudge and Lee et al. Then of course there was ESPN's BBTN.

 

I'm here to say he was been replaced and by someone who is a fan darling not a media darling, Hee Seop Choi.

 

And for the record, I don't hate DLee, but I don't respect him either. He was a *public relations* cancer on this team and I'm glad he's gone and failing to live up to his hype in Chicago just like he did here.

Choi has been tremendous for us but i still like Derek Lee.

 

But in Stats Choi has done better, but the problem with Choi is that he swings for homeruns almost everytime! Have you seen Choi when they throw him an off-speed pitch? He jumps at it and tries to take it out.

 

But he has been solid.

 

D.Lee is cool though.

After the ball that got by Choi's glove side and then was promptly booted by Cabrera, does anyone still want to tell me that what side the glove is on matters more than reaction time?

 

And for that matter, does anyone want to tell me Cabrera belongs in the outfield.

 

Trade Choi while his value is sky-high (we were burned by holding Castro too long) for an outfielder and put Cabs at first...it's radical enough to work.

After the ball that got by Choi's glove side and then was promptly booted by Cabrera, does anyone still want to tell me that what side the glove is on matters more than reaction time?

 

And for that matter, does anyone want to tell me Cabrera belongs in the outfield.

 

Trade Choi while his value is sky-high (we were burned by holding Castro too long) for an outfielder and put Cabs at first...it's radical enough to work.

why the hell are you putting Choi in the same category as Castro? Castro had never done anything in his career except sit on the bench up until this year. Choi has been tremendous, and is going to be a hell of a player down the road, and you want to get rid of him, and most importantly were paying him what $300,000 a year. Yeah let's go trade that guy. :blink:

 

Cabrera's gonna be fine. May I remind you that he is 21 years old and still learning a new position. He's gonna have some problems, but I'm telling you he's gonna be one hell of an outfielder in 2 or 3 years.

After the ball that got by Choi's glove side and then was promptly booted by Cabrera, does anyone still want to tell me that what side the glove is on matters more than reaction time?

 

And for that matter, does anyone want to tell me Cabrera belongs in the outfield.

 

Trade Choi while his value is sky-high (we were burned by holding Castro too long) for an outfielder and put Cabs at first...it's radical enough to work.

why the hell are you putting Choi in the same category as Castro? Castro had never done anything in his career except sit on the bench up until this year. Choi has been tremendous, and is going to be a hell of a player down the road, and you want to get rid of him, and most importantly were paying him what $300,000 a year. Yeah let's go trade that guy. :blink:

 

Cabrera's gonna be fine. May I remind you that he is 21 years old and still learning a new position. He's gonna have some problems, but I'm telling you he's gonna be one hell of an outfielder in 2 or 3 years. I'm not putting Choi in the same category as Castro. I'm simply saying that Choi's numbers are high because of a monster first week and prolonged inconsistency with a high strikeout rate has killed me. Castro showed (and there's no denying) flashes of brilliance last year to the point that because of him we played games negotiating with Pudge, something that has killed us so far. Yes I know we're in first, but it's still a big mistake.

 

Anyway, Choi could certainly net us something of quality, be it Guardado or perhaps he becomes a key piece in a Beltran type deal (Gammons did name us as interested). I've certainly let my feelings be known that Cabrera has no place in the outfield, and while I think he is probably best suited for third, he has worked at first, and I think we need to at least entertain the thought. When it comes to trading for quality, we're obviously going to need to give something up, meaning the odd men out are Conine (highly unlikely) or Choi. :mischief2

 

It probably won't happen, but it does make a lot of sense, at least to me...

*sips margarita*

 

All is ok with Choi in SoFla. DLee is long gone....you can put that on tha board........YES!

Cabrera belongs in left field, not right. But to say he doesn't belong in the outfield at all when he dazzled in left last season is foolish.

After the ball that got by Choi's glove side and then was promptly booted by Cabrera, does anyone still want to tell me that what side the glove is on matters more than reaction time?

 

And for that matter, does anyone want to tell me Cabrera belongs in the outfield.

 

Trade Choi while his value is sky-high (we were burned by holding Castro too long) for an outfielder and put Cabs at first...it's radical enough to work.

why the hell are you putting Choi in the same category as Castro? Castro had never done anything in his career except sit on the bench up until this year. Choi has been tremendous, and is going to be a hell of a player down the road, and you want to get rid of him, and most importantly were paying him what $300,000 a year. Yeah let's go trade that guy. :blink:

 

Cabrera's gonna be fine. May I remind you that he is 21 years old and still learning a new position. He's gonna have some problems, but I'm telling you he's gonna be one hell of an outfielder in 2 or 3 years. I'm not putting Choi in the same category as Castro. I'm simply saying that Choi's numbers are high because of a monster first week and prolonged inconsistency with a high strikeout rate has killed me. Castro showed (and there's no denying) flashes of brilliance last year to the point that because of him we played games negotiating with Pudge, something that has killed us so far. Yes I know we're in first, but it's still a big mistake.

 

Anyway, Choi could certainly net us something of quality, be it Guardado or perhaps he becomes a key piece in a Beltran type deal (Gammons did name us as interested). I've certainly let my feelings be known that Cabrera has no place in the outfield, and while I think he is probably best suited for third, he has worked at first, and I think we need to at least entertain the thought. When it comes to trading for quality, we're obviously going to need to give something up, meaning the odd men out are Conine (highly unlikely) or Choi. :mischief2

 

It probably won't happen, but it does make a lot of sense, at least to me... As long as he keeps getting walks and hitting home runs I can live with the strike outs. I also think Choi has been very consistant for the last 2-3 weeks since he started playing everyday. He had one monster stretch like you said and then one bad stretch, but since then he's been very consistent.

He does have a nine game hitting streak ya know

He does have a nine game hitting streak ya know

and hitting .330 since Cordero went on the DL. :thumbup