I doubt heavily we would just be a halfway house for Beltran unless we would be trading him to a contender in the American League that would send back two or three pretty big parts that can contribute now and would be financially covered.

I agree with that. I dont think we would deal for Beltran then turn around and deal him like we did with Piazza and Zeile. That was a different era. This team is trying to contend - actually, is ALREADY contending.

 

I think it is really too early to worry about making a deal right now. I think we have the pieces in place - we just need to have some patience, and make a couple of adjustments (see my sig!).

I doubt heavily we would just be a halfway house for Beltran unless we would be trading him to a contender in the American League that would send back two or three pretty big parts that can contribute now and would be financially covered.

I agree with that. I dont think we would deal for Beltran then turn around and deal him like we did with Piazza and Zeile. That was a different era. This team is trying to contend - actually, is ALREADY contending.

 

I think it is really too early to worry about making a deal right now. I think we have the pieces in place - we just need to have some patience, and make a couple of adjustments (see my sig!). I dont think conine batting third is the answer....what we need is not from within...

 

we need a change, we need a new left fielder and make niner a super sub or we need an impact catcher....and ofcourse bullpen

 

conine has been AWFUL with RISP.... I understand he'd see better pitches batting third and yadda yadda yadda... but the line up doesnt need to be tweaked....the answer lies outside of our organization

 

although, i agree, we shouldnt be in panic mode right now.... i just think a move will have to eventually be made

Hold on a sec. Yadda yadda yadda? If Conine will see better pitches to hit at the #3 slot, why wouldnt you put him there? Conine has 26 Ks in 190 ABs - that means the ball in is play 86% of the time! Guys get on base, more than likely Conine is going to do something with it. You dont think that would be effective for both Conine and this team?

 

Sure, Conine doesnt have 40 HR power. Hell, even 30HR power. That would be Cabs and Lowell and maybe even Choi. But Fudge batted .297 16HR 85 RBI. RISP .375 last season. Conine, for the last 3 years, hit .299 with RISP. That is good for some runs. I think Conine is totally capable of putting up the same numbers that Fudge put up. You put him 3rd and you dont waste anymore time doing it. Conine is a clutch hitter and will only get better as you put him in those situations. He is a professional hitter who will make contact and knows how to advance the runners.

 

You dont need to make a deal for Beltran (who at .349RISP last 3 years is nice, but not worth renting for half a season at the cost of farm talent) or anyone else right now. Give Conine a chance here and see what happens.

I think it might be a better idea to trade for a grizzly veteran who is desperate for a ring (Call it the Ray Bourque manuever- we did it for Darren Daulton in 1997) more than a younger player that is just playing for a contract. The older guys know rings don't come around very often.

 

We have a very young core, and while they say they know that winning the big one is special, I don't think they fully grasp it. Dontrelle and Miguel have played one season each and have a ring to boast. Josh and Brad have been here a little while, but they don't fully comprehend the title impact either I don't believe. Even Choi, who was on a different team last season but that team still went to the NLCS, doesn't quite know yet that winning doesn't just come every season. Mikey, Luiy, Alex, players that have been around since the losing years know what it's like to be on both ends. Chad Fox, while not only being an amazing arm out of the pen, was a veteran presence who had spent his previous time with a team that hasn't won a World Series since the Woodrow Wilson administration.

 

We could use someone who has been to the playoffs many times and always failed. Or someone who won when he was young but hasn't won since. Maybe even someone that hasn't won at all. Finding these players isn't hard. Finding good ones at the positions we need might be a little harder. But if we can do it, pull the trigger. It's a low risk/high reward kind of move if we get lucky enough to be in the position to make one.

Hold on a sec. Yadda yadda yadda? If Conine will see better pitches to hit at the #3 slot, why wouldnt you put him there? Conine has 26 Ks in 190 ABs - that means the ball in is play 86% of the time! Guys get on base, more than likely Conine is going to do something with it. You dont think that would be effective for both Conine and this team?

 

Sure, Conine doesnt have 40 HR power. Hell, even 30HR power. That would be Cabs and Lowell and maybe even Choi. But Fudge batted .297 16HR 85 RBI. RISP .375 last season. Conine, for the last 3 years, hit .299 with RISP. That is good for some runs. I think Conine is totally capable of putting up the same numbers that Fudge put up. You put him 3rd and you dont waste anymore time doing it. Conine is a clutch hitter and will only get better as you put him in those situations. He is a professional hitter who will make contact and knows how to advance the runners.

 

You dont need to make a deal for Beltran (who at .349RISP last 3 years is nice, but not worth renting for half a season at the cost of farm talent) or anyone else right now. Give Conine a chance here and see what happens.

alright, maybe IF he batted third he'd be better.....but i doubt mckeon is gonna do it....i doubt it has even been brought up....since that is the case, a change is gonna have to be made eventually

if we could resign Beltran Im all for giving up WHOEVER they want(minus Willingham unless that is the sticking point)

 

but again, its all about if we could resign him

Big If

one problem is that his agent is Borass, I believe

one problem is that his agent is Borass, I believe

yea, that's his agent

 

i doubt very highly we could resign him

 

1. Small Market Team

2. Big Player

3. Boras is agent

4. Will want to see how much he can get if he plays well

 

it's really a lose-lose, he plays well, and we lose him. he plays poorly, and we gave up a lot for not much

one problem is that his agent is Borass, I believe

yea, that's his agent

 

i doubt very highly we could resign him

 

1. Small Market Team

2. Big Player

3. Boras is agent

4. Will want to see how much he can get if he plays well

 

it's really a lose-lose, he plays well, and we lose him. he plays poorly, and we gave up a lot for not much lose lose???

 

if he plays well and we win the WS then thats a big WIN

 

thank you Mr. Beltran for this years Championship.....now go make your millions somewhere else

I agree with FishFanFoLIfe that we are not in dire need of our farm talent. If anything, we are overstocked at some positions. Some candidates we could deal are Hutch, Stokes, Aguila (if you keep Hermida around) or even Ambres, Abe Nunez could be dealt also. KC would like a 3B (Dillon) and a C (Castro?). There are plenty of ways to sweeten that deal. (About Castro, dont laugh. Tony Pena was a former catcher and should know how to help Castro get a fresh start.)

Out of all the players you just named there only 1 of those has any significant trade value. Stokes. All the rest of those guys have minimal to no trade value.

one problem is that his agent is Borass, I believe

yea, that's his agent

 

i doubt very highly we could resign him

 

1. Small Market Team

2. Big Player

3. Boras is agent

4. Will want to see how much he can get if he plays well

 

it's really a lose-lose, he plays well, and we lose him. he plays poorly, and we gave up a lot for not much lose lose???

 

if he plays well and we win the WS then thats a big WIN

 

thank you Mr. Beltran for this years Championship.....now go make your millions somewhere else IF we win the WS again. That is a big IF. What IF we get knocked out in the first round?

 

I dont think the reward is worth the risk as this point - but it all depends on who KC wants in return. I dont think that it is worth it right now.

 

People, we dont need an offensive juggernaut here. And I dont see any reason to go outside the organization just to acquire a hitter like the ones we currently have. No one is going to be available, reasonably, that is going to push Conine to the bench. So use what you got, and see what happens. I think this team will be fine.

considering that we wont need a strong farm for the next few years....i think the reward is worth the risk....even if beltran gets us into the playoffs it would be worth it...

 

i feel dumb arguing this because i dont think this deal is going to get down...i think its all smoke and no fire, but i'm just saying...if we WERE to this, it would be smart

Let's be realistic here.

 

Just think how much we gave up for Uggy and Conine. I don't even want to think what it would take to trade for Beltran. I have faith that Conine will turn it around soon.

 

I think we are set with Catcher. Red is holding its own, and Treanor is a solid backup catcher.

 

I'll be happy with one or two decents arms for the pen.

Let's be realistic here.

 

Just think how much we gave up for Uggy and Conine. I don't even want to think what it would take to trade for Beltran. I have faith that Conine will turn it around soon.

 

I think we are set with Catcher. Red is holding its own at Catcher, and Treanor is a solid backup catcher.

 

I'll be happy with one or two decents arms for the pen.

We have 7 guys in our farm system who have significant trade value.

 

Hermida, Stokes, Scott Olsen (not Kevin), Bazardo, Murphy, Reed, and Josh Wilson.

 

Hutchinson and Willingham have some trade value, but not a lot because they are older.

 

It would take 3 or 4 of those guys I just mentioned to get a deal done for Beltran. So we get the deal done with Beltran, and then we make a deal for a relief pitcher and we lose 1 or 2 more of those guys. What's left after that? Not much.

i would really not want to part with hermida and Yorman, i just have a good feeling about yorman, and hermida is a beast

 

other than that, i'd cringe at losing one of them, but i'd do so willingly

I would do a small trade w/ Toronto for Greg Zaun to shore up the catcher position.

Is Zaun really an improvement over the likes of Treanor and Redmond? I don't think so.

the way i see it is, we got to live year to year. we are in a VERY brief window right now - a team with a salary ceiling of $50 million cannot afford to play for the World Series every year, and every year we have a chance is a blessing. Guys like Benitez, Beckett, Penny, Pavano, and maybe even Pierre could very easily price their way out of South Florida in the next few years, especially since this team will be extra-strapped for cash in the 3 years it will take to get the new stadium (and the increased revenues it hopefully will bring).

 

i don't think we can afford to plan for next year, or two years down the road. this team is poised to win the NL East (and possibly, the NL) this year, and i think that's what we need to focus on. at some point, if we need to restock our farm system, we'll have the chips to do it with (Lowell, Castillo, etc). I know it sucks to think like that, but I don't think the Marlins can afford to have it both ways - planning for the future AND winning in the present. they took an extreme "plan for the future" approach from 1998-2002, and now that they finally have their window, it's time to swing the other way. Let's get Beltran, take a real shot at a third world title, and worry about the future when the future comes.

At least Berardino is stressing that the talks are preliminary, and that there are several hold-ups in getting a deal done.

the way i see it is, we got to live year to year. we are in a VERY brief window right now - a team with a salary ceiling of $50 million cannot afford to play for the World Series every year, and every year we have a chance is a blessing. Guys like Benitez, Beckett, Penny, Pavano, and maybe even Pierre could very easily price their way out of South Florida in the next few years, especially since this team will be extra-strapped for cash in the 3 years it will take to get the new stadium (and the increased revenues it hopefully will bring).

 

i don't think we can afford to plan for next year, or two years down the road. this team is poised to win the NL East (and possibly, the NL) this year, and i think that's what we need to focus on. at some point, if we need to restock our farm system, we'll have the chips to do it with (Lowell, Castillo, etc). I know it sucks to think like that, but I don't think the Marlins can afford to have it both ways - planning for the future AND winning in the present. they took an extreme "plan for the future" approach from 1998-2002, and now that they finally have their window, it's time to swing the other way. Let's get Beltran, take a real shot at a third world title, and worry about the future when the future comes.

You are absolutely right

 

Who knows what happens in the next 2 years?

 

Our starting rotation might go from the best to the worst...

 

Enjoy it while it lasts

 

If this year is unsuccessful, all of the fans gained from last year's championship are gone.

 

We need to build consecutive good seasons to create a larger fan base.

I remember hearing that we were in the hunt of getting Vlad for 10 mills in the offseason, therfore I see Beltran at 5.5 or even less being a possibility, remember Jeff Loria is high on big name guys.............I have a feeling that Carlos Beltran will be wearing teal sooner than u think, he will be a Marlin.........start the countdown. Remember if we trade key pieces from the farm system, we are awarded two draft choices from the team that signs him in the offseason, unless we some how get him to stay which is what everyone else wants, maybe am getting ahead on myself, but I seriously think he will be wearing teal soon......it's a perfect vision, he'd look perfect in teal :-)....and he fits our style with his speed.....

There are some big obstacles

 

Will he except the move to left (or hopefully, right)?

How will we resign him?

How much will we pay?

Will he perform to the level we hope?

Will it leave us with enough chips to cash in for more ammo or maybe even a new gun later?

 

But this is our chance, let's go for broke. We are priviledged to have another shot at winning the title. Like said, it isn't going to last long. Why not?

 

Hopefully, if we land Beltran, we can look elsewhere for a veteran reliever or two off of a team that isn't going to contend and we could do it early enough where everyone could gell and we could be set to go.

Maybe we could get one of their relievers in a potential trade. I am all for it, we can't just keep stock piling minor leaguers. Alot of times you just have to use them as assets and trade them away for established players.

Question: Does anyone know what kind of personality Beltran is? Would he fit in the clubhouse? That is probably as important or more than what he can do on the field.

Question: Does anyone know what kind of personality Beltran is? Would he fit in the clubhouse? That is probably as important or more than what he can do on the field.

based on what I seen, he looks to be very low key. At least, he doesn't have a bad rep (like Guillen/Pierz/Mondesi)