Passion Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Question: Does anyone know what kind of personality Beltran is? Would he fit in the clubhouse? That is probably as important or more than what he can do on the field. based on what I seen, he looks to be very low key. At least, he doesn't have a bad rep (like Guillen/Pierz/Mondesi) I agree, possibly on a team like the Marlins which has more Spanish speaking players and is a Spanish speaking city, he would have a bigger persona.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnylons Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 I think Beltran would fit right in with this clubhouse. I am not so sold on his tools though - he has them, but they arent polished and I wonder if he can perform under pressure. I must say, I always thought of him as being inconsistent and never reaching his potential, but it seems that he is good for .290 25HR+ 25SB+. Getting him would be nice, that has never been in question, but it is about what it would take that bothers me. I dont like the idea of giving up premium talent for a rental. Now, the Uggy situation was different because I felt we gave up solid prospects but nothing that was going to be in our future. And we won a WS. I also have confidence in our scouts and our GM that if they pull the trigger on this deal and send away some of our better prospects, that in time they will get more back in here. Remember, Loria took over in '02 and started immediately re-filling the talent pool. It has paid off thus far, and AA down I would say we are very thick in talent. Next year to two we could have it totally re-filled again if we deal for Beltran. I am starting to come around on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rferry Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 If there's a good chance we can resign him go for it. Otherwise I don't think a superstar bat is needed to push the team over the top and not worth giving up top prospects for supplemental draft picks. There are a number of lefty-hitting outfielders that might be available in July. Michael Tucker and Raul Ibanez (cuban) are the cheaper of the bunch, and there's Steve Finley, Matt Lawton and Bobby Higginson too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishfan25 Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 that's the thing though....if we get beltran we gotta bench one of the guys in the OF and i know we are not trading or benching conine or pierre. so that leaves choi and cabs....do not see the 2 young guys on the bench.....would love it if it happened but no spot for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramp Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 that's the thing though....if we get beltran we gotta bench one of the guys in the OF and i know we are not trading or benching conine or pierre. so that leaves choi and cabs....do not see the 2 young guys on the bench.....would love it if it happened but no spot for him. Conine would be on the bench before Cabs dont be silly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libelula Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 We all know Choi and Conine can't bat every day so if we got Beltran the obvious thing to do would be to put him in right, leave JP in center, and move Cabs back to left. Platoon Choi and Conine with the righty/lefty matchup. Vs lefties, Conine is hitting .400 and just .252 against righties. Vs righties, Choi is batting .268 and just .167 against lefties. Let the platoon live until the offseason. Let go of either Pavano or Penny and resign Beltran. Continue the platoon until Conine's contract is up and by that time, Choi should learn how to hit lefties. Didn't Beinfest say he has some special money somewhere? With the stadium deal I would imagine he could go out and spend a little extra too. Don't mind me, I'm just dreaming. @_@ And by the way, like most, I would hate to get rid of Penny or Pavano but we need hitting as well. With AJ, Willis, Beckett, and either Penny or Pavano, we should be set for next season along with a 5th starter who's name is hopefully not Darren Oliver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Man Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 no way we give up Penny or Pavano, at least i dont hope we do...I mean, especially Pavano...Hes the man. Ive said it before, and i'll say it again.And Penny is also the man...We cant give up any of our pitching, without it, wed be behind Atlanta and New York right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libelula Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 no way we give up Penny or Pavano, at least i dont hope we do...I mean, especially Pavano...Hes the man. Ive said it before, and i'll say it again.And Penny is also the man...We cant give up any of our pitching, without it, wed be behind Atlanta and New York right now. Can't have everything, man. Our offense is clearly struggling and we need to do something. Bring up Bill Murphy next year to replace Pavano or Penny. Pitching and defense wins championships, but you gotta hit too. I would imagine Pavano would want quite a raise too. He could be a number 2 starter on many other teams. You gotta stay balanced. Look at the A's. They have the big three, but you know one of them or maybe two of them will be gone soon. Besides Tejada and Chavez, their offense stunk last year. Look at the Rangers. They had that one good player named Alex Rodriguez but couldn't do anything because of his salary. Now that he's gone, they're contenders. Stay balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Man Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 The Big Three hjave contracts till 2007, thats big. The Marlins need their pitching, good pitching always beats good hitting. Look, Our offense is fine, just now our big guys are slumping, Lowell and...Well, Lowell. If he starts hitting again, our offense'll be fine for the most part. As long as Pierre can get on base, and Louis...we are fine...but the thing is, lately, Pierre hasn't got on base and Louis cant score from fist on a pop up or strike out by lowell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnylons Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 I agree that you have to stay balanced. I dont think we need fiver superlative starters to win every year. Look at the Braves, for example. They were able to do it by maintaining their big three for a while (Glavine, Maddux, Smoltz) and supplemented them with a solid rotation (Avery, Millwood, Hampton, Ortiz, etc.). The same goes with the A's who have been able to get solid arms to round out their rotation. Now, with Harden, they could even conceivably afford to lose one of their 'big three'. The DBacks went to the World Series with Unit and Schilling. The Cubs have 2 dominant starters, Wood and Prior, and 2 very good starters in Zambrano and Clement. We have Burnett, Beckett, Penny - all #1's on practically any roster - and Willis and Pavano who are also very good starters. We have talent developing in the minors that could become starting material (Murphy, Hutchinson, Olsen, Tankersley, etc.). So we can afford to lose Penny/Pavs (which we may have to lose one because of impending FA) because you can always find a starter to round out the roster and chew up innings. You cannot, however, rely on finding a #1 to anchor your rotation - but that is something we dont have to worry about. That said, you dont trade Penny or Pavs because of impending FA. You keep them because that is the key to winning right now - pitching and defense gives you a chance every night. Improving the offense at the expense of that philosophy only opens up a new hole. No, what you do is deal away prospects at the minor league level to get a Beltran - and that is 'doable' for the Marlins. Even Reynolds on BBT made that same point about the Indians. They are contending and the time is now for that team to get to the next level. The window of opportunity only comes along every now and then. The same for the Marlins - we may have a young team, but the window is open and the Marlins, as an organization, cannot afford not to take that opportunity. IF they can get a Beltran, they should try and make the deal happen. Same thing happened last season with Uggy and Conine. Simply put, Beltran means Conine is on the bench. Our bench gets a whole lot better - and it is already pretty good. Improving the offense takes some pressure off the pitching too. The window is open - better climb through it before it closes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramp Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 hey jonnylons.... that Maddux guy aint too bad either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnylons Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 hey jonnylons.... that Maddux guy aint too bad either Oh yeah... :lol Not what he was though. But they match our starting five pretty well. Especially since we beat them last year WITHOUT Burnett. But that is a whole 'nother topic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marlin Man Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 I agree that you have to stay balanced. I dont think we need fiver superlative starters to win every year. Look at the Braves, for example. They were able to do it by maintaining their big three for a while (Glavine, Maddux, Smoltz) and supplemented them with a solid rotation (Avery, Millwood, Hampton, Ortiz, etc.). The same goes with the A's who have been able to get solid arms to round out their rotation. Now, with Harden, they could even conceivably afford to lose one of their 'big three'. The DBacks went to the World Series with Unit and Schilling. The Cubs have 2 dominant starters, Wood and Prior, and 2 very good starters in Zambrano and Clement. We have Burnett, Beckett, Penny - all #1's on practically any roster - and Willis and Pavano who are also very good starters. We have talent developing in the minors that could become starting material (Murphy, Hutchinson, Olsen, Tankersley, etc.). So we can afford to lose Penny/Pavs (which we may have to lose one because of impending FA) because you can always find a starter to round out the roster and chew up innings. You cannot, however, rely on finding a #1 to anchor your rotation - but that is something we dont have to worry about. That said, you dont trade Penny or Pavs because of impending FA. You keep them because that is the key to winning right now - pitching and defense gives you a chance every night. Improving the offense at the expense of that philosophy only opens up a new hole. No, what you do is deal away prospects at the minor league level to get a Beltran - and that is 'doable' for the Marlins. Even Reynolds on BBT made that same point about the Indians. They are contending and the time is now for that team to get to the next level. The window of opportunity only comes along every now and then. The same for the Marlins - we may have a young team, but the window is open and the Marlins, as an organization, cannot afford not to take that opportunity. IF they can get a Beltran, they should try and make the deal happen. Same thing happened last season with Uggy and Conine. Simply put, Beltran means Conine is on the bench. Our bench gets a whole lot better - and it is already pretty good. Improving the offense takes some pressure off the pitching too. The window is open - better climb through it before it closes. I agree 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishFanPR Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 I agree that you have to stay balanced. I dont think we need fiver superlative starters to win every year. Look at the Braves, for example. They were able to do it by maintaining their big three for a while (Glavine, Maddux, Smoltz) and supplemented them with a solid rotation (Avery, Millwood, Hampton, Ortiz, etc.). The same goes with the A's who have been able to get solid arms to round out their rotation. Now, with Harden, they could even conceivably afford to lose one of their 'big three'. The DBacks went to the World Series with Unit and Schilling. The Cubs have 2 dominant starters, Wood and Prior, and 2 very good starters in Zambrano and Clement. We have Burnett, Beckett, Penny - all #1's on practically any roster - and Willis and Pavano who are also very good starters. We have talent developing in the minors that could become starting material (Murphy, Hutchinson, Olsen, Tankersley, etc.). So we can afford to lose Penny/Pavs (which we may have to lose one because of impending FA) because you can always find a starter to round out the roster and chew up innings. You cannot, however, rely on finding a #1 to anchor your rotation - but that is something we dont have to worry about. That said, you dont trade Penny or Pavs because of impending FA. You keep them because that is the key to winning right now - pitching and defense gives you a chance every night. Improving the offense at the expense of that philosophy only opens up a new hole. No, what you do is deal away prospects at the minor league level to get a Beltran - and that is 'doable' for the Marlins. Even Reynolds on BBT made that same point about the Indians. They are contending and the time is now for that team to get to the next level. The window of opportunity only comes along every now and then. The same for the Marlins - we may have a young team, but the window is open and the Marlins, as an organization, cannot afford not to take that opportunity. IF they can get a Beltran, they should try and make the deal happen. Same thing happened last season with Uggy and Conine. Simply put, Beltran means Conine is on the bench. Our bench gets a whole lot better - and it is already pretty good. Improving the offense takes some pressure off the pitching too. The window is open - better climb through it before it closes. I agree 100% idealists...it'd be nice to have Beltran, but wake up and smell the coffee! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heckeroo Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 never say never Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlins04 Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 :happydance :marlins dont give up until the dancing marshmellow stops dancing!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marlin Man Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 please read what was written... It was never said that we WILL get Beltran or that we are GONNA get beltran.. there has been an ongoing argument on this site on whether or not we should trade for a bat and if we should sacrafice our farm system for that bat The post states our opinion that if we can get a bat to help our team win we should trade anyone in our system for that bat (however, it is also my opinion that hermidia and willy should be untouchable along with one pitcher) now, its just so happens that beltran was used as a prime example for a bat that we could trade for that would help us and it wouldn't even be idealist thinking to think that we could trade for beltran... what would be idealist thinking is if one thought that we could sign him long term this off season, as that would be almost impossible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libelula Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Beltran = Guerrero Part 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.