Our offense SUCKS ASS and won't get any better.

 

Nomar/Kim/cash for Pavano/Gonzo (and possibly a pitching prospect). They want to get rid of Kim, and Nomar is gone after the year. They're dead money right now to Boston. Gonzo will be locked up for next year and they seem to want Pavano pretty bad. Have them pay the difference of their salaries this year and throw in a couple million for next year for Kim's salary. We can even throw in a SP prospect to get more money from them. Use the money freed up from Pavano next year to resign Penny and Benitez. Perhaps we could even resign Nomar if we find "special money" and he decides not to go to the West Coast. Either way, it is worth the risk, IMO. We aren't going anywhere this year with this terrible offense. :thumbdown

NO!

not Pavano.... but Id talk about Penny

Go after Kim :thumbup

not Pavano.... but Id talk about Penny

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Unless we can resign Pavano (which I have my doubts about), what is the point in keeping him this year? Our starting pitching is decent and our offense and bullpen is pretty bad. I don't see the point in keeping Pavano unless we can resign him. Penny is at least locked up if arbitration doesn't give him an insane amount of money.

theres no way kim could be a starter.i dont know who we can put in there to fill for pavano..bad deal...

theres no way kim could be a starter.i dont know who we can put in there to fill for pavano..bad deal...

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He'd be in the pen. Beckett/Penny/AJ/Willis would be the top 4. Number 5 doesn't really matter. Unless we can score enough runs to win with our good pitchers (which we can't right now), winning with our #5 doesn't matter.

Kim could be had cheaply.

Isn't Kim still in the minors, or did they recall him?

you cant get rid of someone that has been as dependable as Pavano if you plan on making any sort of playoff run

Why send the Sox anyone who might beat us in the WS?

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Do you think this offense can get us anywhere near the WS? Please! We won it last year with Pavano in the pen and AJ on the DL. Our starting pitching would be fine in the WD without one of Penny/Pavano if Beckett/AJ are healthy.

you cant get rid of someone that has been as dependable as Pavano if you plan on making any sort of playoff run

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When you have our starting pitching depth and seem to score two damn runs a game, I'll give up Pavano if it gave us a chance to ignite our offense and stabalize our bullpen.

 

Lets face the facts, my friends. If we were in a 4 game series, AJ and Beckett would be our 1/2. Penny and Pavano would be fighting for the 3/4 spots with Willis in the pen. We proved last year you could win with only ONE constant post-season pitcher. Penny/Pavano/Willis/Redman all filled in various starts and roles outside of Beckett. We have the starting pitching depth to lose one guy; especially since I seriously doubt we can resign Pavano. We have NO OFFENSE!!!!

 

Unless we can resign Pavano long-term before the All Star break, trade him NOW for more offense or younger players.

ah dont think we can afford to keep nomar for more then the rest of the year...

Uh, the Sox will probably win the wild card, so why would they deal the favorite player of half the city? Also, they have better chance of making the playoffs then the marlins, they won't trade one of their best players.

Pavano stays no matter what!

Pavano stays no matter what!

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Hopefully, the marlins resign carl at the end of the season so the bosox won't pick him up in free agency.

I would do Penny for Nomar. In fact, I wonder if we couldnt also get Lowe and Kim somehow thrown into the deal. That would free up a lot of contract for the Red Sux who could then make some moves down the road.

 

Penny

AGon

 

for:

 

Nomar

Kim

(Lowe?)

 

When Beckett comes back, with he, Burnett, and Pavano pitching consistently, we have enough pitching to get back into the playoffs. We proved we had enough when our staff ace was on the shelf for pretty much the whole year (Burnett was out). I also think Penny has peaked out - he is a 15 game winner, strong #2. It will be a while before he becomes the ace he is capable of just because he doesnt seem to have that killer instinct and fire consistently like Burnett and Beckett do. Pavano can flat out pitch, but he is not overpowering and could have some off games here and there.

 

Nomar at the 3 would be a huge lift to this offense. But lets be realistic here - he is going to cost A LOT of money and we may not have him back again next season. And remember, last year's team averaged 4.6 runs a game. This year's is at 4.3 currently.

 

We are struggling, but we should not panic here. Still plenty of time.

Uh, the Sox will probably win the wild card, so why would they deal the favorite player of half the city? Also, they have better chance of making the playoffs then the marlins, they won't trade one of their best players.

 

You may not have noticed, but Nomar dislikes the Red Sox organization, and the organization and fans don't like him. It all started with the ARod talks...

ATLANTA -- Theo Epstein has heard the gamut of raw emotions engulfing the Red Sox lately, from trading Nomar Garciaparra to getting rid of the manager he signed to a three-year contract just seven months ago.

While the GM is hardly pleased that the Red Sox were 42-36 entering Saturday night action -- and 27-30 since May 1 -- he isn't anywhere close to losing his rationality by responding to public outcry.

 

Thanks to his Boston upbringing, Epstein understands the kind of panic that takes hold of Red Sox Nation when the team performs below expectations.

 

As for Garciaparra, who has endured a major amount of scrutiny since coming off the disabled list on June 9, Epstein remains confident that the star shortstop is close to regaining his form.

 

"The reality of it is Nomar is a great player, an elite player, a star player, who is coming off a major injury that was enough to put him on the shelf for a third of the season," said Epstein. "He came back quickly to help the team out. He's getting better and better every single day, but he's kind of playing through a rehab to a certain extent.

 

"He's getting better every day and we need him to win. That's the reality. We need this guy to win. It was a great sign to see him swing the bat the way he did yesterday. That's the reality of the matter. The perception is attributable to the nature of our market, which I love, by the way."

 

Epstein took exception to all the second-guessing that came from Garciaparra sitting out of Thursday's 13-inning epic at Yankee Stadium.

 

"He was hurting the other day to the point where he couldn't play," said Epstein. "The day off did him a world of good. You saw how well he swung the bat yesterday. He was a medical scratch [Thursday]. He was not healthy enough to play that day. And the day off did him a world of good. He played yesterday, he played his [rear end] off."

 

Garciaparra, who missed the first 57 games of the season with right Achilles tendinitis, had three hits in Friday's game and was in the lineup again on Saturday. Epstein said that he sees no change from the type of desire that has marked Garciaparra over his eight-year career.

 

"This guy did everything in his power to help us win [Friday's] game and almost did for us. He's in the game," said Epstein. "He wants to win. He's a competitor. A guy doesn't change his stripes after eight years. He's going to help us get where we want to go."

 

The only person taking as much heat as Garciaparra on the Boston talk media circuit of late is Terry Francona. Such is the case for any Red Sox manager when the team is underachieving.

 

But Epstein is pleased with the way Francona is handling a tumultuous time.

 

"Terry is doing a great job," said Epstein. "There are always things a manager does to help the club, to help the club win, to help the club through 162 games that you guys don't see. In Terry's case, that happens more with Terry than with any other manager because he is fiercely loyal, because he is committed to always doing the right thing. He'll take more bullets for the club than anyone I've ever seen. That makes him an easy target at times. If it leads to a perception that doesn't match with reality, that's something we'll have to live with."

 

One perception of Francona is that he's too much of a player's manager. Epstein isn't buying it.

 

"This guy is helping us win. He's going to help us get where we want to go. He's doing a good job," said Epstein.

 

As for the team in general, Epstein seemed more pleased with their direction than last Sunday at Fenway Park, when he clearly seemed disappointed by the way the Red Sox were playing.

 

Despite 25 innings worth of losses on Thursday and Friday, Epstein saw signs that the Sox were starting to play a winning brand of baseball again.

 

"The last two games, we've had bad results because we've lost, but we've lost in heartbreaking fashion," Epstein said. "I think we've played the kind of baseball the last two games that we can be proud of. I think that might represent the start of a change in direction for this club. We have to play better fundamental baseball in the second half and we have the last two days."

 

Epstein is always examining the trade market, but the 0-4 start to this road trip hasn't changed his opinion from last week that the Sox can still win with the current core of players.

 

"I still believe in this team," Epstein said. "I still think we're going to turn things around. I wish more than anything we'd have found a way to win both these last two games because it's great when that kind of play is rewarded. But it will be. If we can keep it up, this kind of focus, intensity, smart aggressive baseball, we'll be OK.

 

"Some change may be necessary eventually, certainly we'll make change that makes us better. Right now we're just trying to play better every day and I think the last two days has been a good step, except for the results, which is the only thing that matters."

 

Ian Browne is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

 

 

 

Nomar is going nowhere.

(winning with our #5 doesn't matter.

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Ask the White Sox if the 5th starter doesn't matter before they got Freddy. Do you want to go through every 5th game with a very slim chance of winning

ChoitotheWorld,

 

Read between the lines there. Nomar did not play in that final game against the Yankees - in fact, the WHOLE team was standing in support of the Red Sox rally but Nomar was alone, sitting on the bench. He didnt hurt that much.

 

Secondly, Nomar has been pretty average offensively AWAY from Fenway (.243 .687OPS in '03). Of course, this year it is almost the opposite thus far (.189 .619OPS home, .375 .916OPS away). He is struggling.

 

The Red Sux need pitching and defense. We have plenty (if it would only perform consistently...). I dont know if we would acquire Nomar, but I do not believe that the Red Sux will keep him around if they can deal him and get something to help them win more consistently. They only have 2 good starters right now and terrible defense. That wont beat the Yankees or even get them a wild card berth.

 

Besides, there are enough teams out there that perceive still that Nomar is an elite player. The numbers, and the injury (which smells of an unenthused player more than a nagging injury) are red flags.

ah dont think we can afford to keep nomar for more then the rest of the year...

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Next year is irrelevant. It appears we'll lose Pavano anyway. I'd rather have Nomar/Kim the rest of the year than Gonzo/Pavano. But that is just me.

 

And for the Red Sox not being willing to deal Nomar, get real. He is gone after this year. The Red Sox let Clemens and Mo leave town, and they were willing to get rid of Nomar and Manny for ARod and Magglio. Nomar is miserable on the Red Sox right now. They'd love to deal him if they could get equal value for him, which we can give.

I would do Penny for Nomar. In fact, I wonder if we couldnt also get Lowe and Kim somehow thrown into the deal. That would free up a lot of contract for the Red Sux who could then make some moves down the road.

 

Penny

AGon

 

for:

 

Nomar

Kim

(Lowe?)

 

When Beckett comes back, with he, Burnett, and Pavano pitching consistently, we have enough pitching to get back into the playoffs. We proved we had enough when our staff ace was on the shelf for pretty much the whole year (Burnett was out). I also think Penny has peaked out - he is a 15 game winner, strong #2. It will be a while before he becomes the ace he is capable of just because he doesnt seem to have that killer instinct and fire consistently like Burnett and Beckett do. Pavano can flat out pitch, but he is not overpowering and could have some off games here and there.

 

Nomar at the 3 would be a huge lift to this offense. But lets be realistic here - he is going to cost A LOT of money and we may not have him back again next season. And remember, last year's team averaged 4.6 runs a game. This year's is at 4.3 currently.

 

We are struggling, but we should not panic here. Still plenty of time.

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Nomar and Lowe are free agents. They'll be rid of their contracts next year.

 

I still would trade Pavano before Penny if we can't reach a long-term deal with Pavano before the trade deadline. If we could resign him, I'd trade Penny instead in a second. I just don't see us reaching a deal with Pavano.

not Pavano.... but Id talk about Penny

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Same here. Pavano can stay, penny can go.

Depends on the likelihood we can resign Pavano. We atleast hold the rights to Penny.