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Great to see ya Cliffie...


Marlins2003
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3 strikeouts, that slight limp, and although he made the catch in left he needed to make, I was pleased to watch him in someone else's uniform. I will always love Cliff for those moments of joy he brought us, but he never brought us respectability, he never led this team anywhere.

 

Maybe tomorrow Cliff will redeem himself. Who knows, who cares. He wasn't worth $6.5 million last year and he certainly isn't this year either.

 

I'll take Juan Encarncion any day. Great catch tonight, but he also blew a terrific chance to bring in an insurance run late in the game with a guy on third but all in all, he is definitely an upgrade as an everyday right fielder.

 

The Marlins played as well as any team in the MLB tonight. To watch Alex vacuum up shot after shot was inspiring. And Lowell. But I have to say, as down as I've been on Derrick, the fact is his play at first is nothing less than extraordinary! These guys are playing like they believe in themselves like I haven't seen in many years.

 

What I really like is hearing these guys talking up making the playoffs. For the third or fourth time in the after game shows, Dontrelle tonight, and others have talked about their feeling they can make the playoffs. The want to WIN! Jack and Wayne are doing a terrific job, they have transformed this team into one that believes in itself.

 

Does anyone miss Torborg and Arnie? Or Demp and Cliffie? Am I happy about Hollandsworth? No. Would I be willing to let Millar play left field in exchange for his bat? Maybe, I don't know yet. He's such a one dimensional player its frightening.

 

Do I miss CJ and Preston? Nope. As players here did nothing, nothing, nothing.

 

If the Marlins think they can make it to the playoffs I say great! Go for it. Let's make this a fun summer around here and once and for all shut up the Orlando Alzegarys and the Hanks and the LeBatards with a winning season.

 

Anyone wanna discuss Clement and Alfonseca for Taveres and DONTRELLE WILLIS? now? I doubt it.

 

As for Cliff, I bow and say thank you. Thank you for all the good times and thanks for leaving. You are a constant reminder that baseball is about winning (thank you Jack for reminding us all) and not about hero worship. We've had enough of the latter. I look forward to winning now for the first time in many, way too many years.

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To add to your ranting about Floyd....in a pre-game interview the Marlins reporter asked him about the problems w/ the front office, & if everyone had gotten over it now, etc... Cliff said yeah & that other Marlins players probably learned from watching him so that when they're in the same position they hopefully won't let it affect them. He said "you know what guys I'm talking about, Lowell, Castillo and Lee." And something about it being a shame about what might happen with the current team. I'm not getting the quotes right, but it was something like that. It was kind of a backhanded way to say they still didn't give him the money he was worth, and they'll dump these 3 guys too but hopefully they won't let it bother them. At least that's what I got from it, maybe I'm wrong.

 

Yeah you're right Cliff. You should have gotten 10 million a year here. And also the Marlins next year should still have you, plus Lowell, Lee, and Castillo all at 7 million too. And Preston at 10 million and CJ at 7. Then we could field a team of 6 players, because there wouldn't be any money left for anything else. :whistle

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Mike Lowell is no more worth $10 million than you are (well maybe he's a little closer lol). Baseball is a business, there are rules and scales and arbitration for players with his time served. He will be paid what an arbitrator concludes he is worth compared to his peers both in years played but also on skill level.

 

He makes $3.4 million this year. He'll probably make $5.5-6.5 million next year. Less than Cliff. I rest my case.

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IMO Cliff was/is worth every bit of 6.5 mil., just not for us. Cliff is a good guy and played hard for us everyday, I don't really understand the animosity. The FO was not up front with him, so he is not real happy with them. The FO has been so-so on baseball decisions, but they are terrible "people persons.", and I think that greatly contributes to their bad PR.

 

Cliff was great for us, I'm sure a lot of you guys sounded different when he was here. Cliff is no more self centered than most other players.

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Mike Lowell is no more worth $10 million than you are (well maybe he's a little closer lol). Baseball is a business, there are rules and scales and arbitration for players with his time served. He will be paid what an arbitrator concludes he is worth compared to his peers both in years played but also on skill level.

 

He makes $3.4 million this year. He'll probably make $5.5-6.5 million next year. Less than Cliff. I rest my case.

I'm just saying that he is our "Franchise player" he should be signed long term.

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Do I miss CJ and Preston? Nope. As players here did nothing, nothing, nothing

Great post, but I do miss P-Dub. I could handle someone with 15+ HRs and 60+RBI hitting behind Lowell right now. Talk about keeping a pitcher honest.

.

I'm just saying that he is our "Franchise player" he should be signed long term

 

You are right, but a couple of years too late. The Marlins needed to sign him to a long-term deal a year ago. Because they stood pat and didn't extend his contract in order to save a mil or so they now will lose at least three times that in attendence and publicity when he's gone. Sign the youngin's early..... AS far as I'm concerned, it's time to talk extension with Willis, Banks, Beckett and any other young player with promise RIGHT NOW!

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IMO Cliff was/is worth every bit of 6.5 mil., just not for us. Cliff is a good guy and played hard for us everyday, I don't really understand the animosity. The FO was not up front with him, so he is not real happy with them. The FO has been so-so on baseball decisions, but they are terrible "people persons.", and I think that greatly contributes to their bad PR.

 

Cliff was great for us, I'm sure a lot of you guys sounded different when he was here. Cliff is no more self centered than most other players.

i do like him as a player and he was worth 6.5. he didn't want to sign for 6.5 however. he wanted closer to 10. i don't side with this front office in many cases, and i didn't in that one either, but for cliff to take it as some kind of slap that they wouldn't agree to his demands and to keep spouting off to the media was just silly.

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"He makes $3.4 million this year. He'll probably make $5.5-6.5 million next year. Less than Cliff. I rest my case. "

 

- There's no way that Lowell will make only 5.5-6.5 mil next year. With the season he's having it will be at least 7+ mil in arbitration and even more if he's signed long term. That's the reason for all the trade talk with the Cubs.

 

I actually think Floyd is reasonable @ 6.5 mil a season given his production the last few seasons. .280 BA, .370 OB%, 30 HR's, 90 RBI's is a relative bargain at 6.5 mil in this day of baseball contracts.

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Maybe tomorrow Cliff will redeem himself. Who knows, who cares. He wasn't worth $6.5 million last year and he certainly isn't this year either.

 

I'll take Juan Encarncion any day.

You will take Juan anyday? I wouldnt, with Cliff's power Juan isnt close to having Cliff's power. Floyd has and will have better numbers than Encarnacion....

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Wildcard - arbitration has nothing to do with the Marlins financial situation. It's based soley on how an independent person (ie arbitrator) views Lowells stats vs. other players. It's not based only on 1 season but his last few seasons.

 

Lowell has been a 20 HR 90 RBI type of 3B over the last 3 season (on average). There are not many 3B's that do that. Small list of 3B's and their salaries.

 

Glaus - 9 mil in 2004

Rolen - 11 mil average over contract

Chavez - 5.2 (last year of a below market contract)

Ventura - 5 mil

Tony Batista - 6 mil

David Bell - 4.5

Alfonzo - 5.5 in 2004

 

I think your underestimating Lowell's value on the open market.

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I think your underestimating Lowell's value on the open market.

 

Dak, there is no "open market" for Mike Lowell and there won't be for this season and next.

 

And Filet O' Fish,

"You are right, but a couple of years too late. The Marlins needed to sign him to a long-term deal a year ago. Because they stood pat and didn't extend his contract in order to save a mil or so they now will lose at least three times that in attendence and publicity when he's gone. Sign the youngin's early..... AS far as I'm concerned, it's time to talk extension with Willis, Banks, Beckett and any other young player with promise RIGHT NOW!"

 

A year ago Mike Lowell was recovering from testicular cancer, who knew what his situation might be. He certainly didn't distinguish himself last year in the second half. And why would you want to lavish a guy like Banks (who I love and followed all last year at Calgary) when you've yet to see him play a full season starting. It seems to me you're way too quick to blame management for imaginary sins and you're always ready to write a check with someone elses money.

 

By your standard I guess we should have signed AJ to a long term contract too, gee maybe we could have given him $20 million guaranteed. Next spring is plenty of time to cut a deal with Lowell. Pay for play with the watchword in baseball today, virtually every team is faced with economic woes, the Marlins aren't alone.

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Do I miss CJ and Preston? Nope. As players here did nothing, nothing, nothing

 

Great post, but I do miss P-Dub. I could handle someone with 15+ HRs and 60+RBI hitting behind Lowell right now. Talk about keeping a pitcher honest.

.

I'm just saying that he is our "Franchise player" he should be signed long term

You are right, but a couple of years too late. The Marlins needed to sign him to a long-term deal a year ago. Because they stood pat and didn't extend his contract in order to save a mil or so they now will lose at least three times that in attendence and publicity when he's gone. Sign the youngin's early..... AS far as I'm concerned, it's time to talk extension with Willis, Banks, Beckett and any other young player with promise RIGHT NOW!Just because PW is having a successful season with Rockies doesn't mean he would have the same outcome in a Marlins uniform.Being traded sometimes is a wakeup call for some players and to to other is a step backward.

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Most of those players aren't making that money through arbitration, but because of big contracts they have signed...

what's the difference though? wouldn't arbitrators take all those players' salaries under consideration when deciding on a figure if the Marlins take Lowell to a hearing? Hopefully Lowell would take a little less to stay with the Marlins...no state tax, can stay at home, etc... Anyhow, I think 6 or 6.5 would be great if they can get him for that.

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"Dak, there is no "open market" for Mike Lowell and there won't be for this season and next. "

 

- Marlins2003 - Open market was a poor choice of words. I should have said that he'll get 'market value' for his production. If 30 HR 90 RBI type 3B's are getting 8-10 mil a season theh his salary will be in line with that.

 

If Lowell is open to resigning at 6-6.5 then he would have given the team a big discount IMO - especially after the season he's currently having.

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Cliffy was also willing to take a discount here...

 

Except he wasn't as good as Lowell has been to this point (last year), Mikey is the real fan fav here, and he's the hometown hero.

 

Like I have said a million times... Mike lowell will be in Florida next season... Dispite the Cubs fans hopes and dreams...

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You all need to get off the crack. There is NO WAY Mike Lowell resigns with the Fish before the start of next year without going through arbitration. He'd be throwing millions away.

 

And another thing... Even if Mike Lowell suffered a closed head wound and decided to take a pay cut to stay with the Marlins, he's not going to do it on a one or two year deal, which is what the Fish will offer. He will demand (and get) a long-term deal somewhere, and the Marlins WILL NOT sign him to a long-term deal at fair market value. Simple as that.

 

Really, people. Start dealing with reality.

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