August 1, 200421 yr you want yoru rbi guys to have high slg % which generally leads to higher rbi totals. 488073[/snapback] Encarnacion's slugging .415, about the worst by NL outfielders.
August 1, 200421 yr you only use 3 and a half starters in the playoffs. if Valdez can eat innings and keep the team in games....you are in a win/win situation. and i think he will. 488084[/snapback] It was nice having starters in the pen in the playoffs. I'd still probably take Penny over Mota in the pen, if that were the choice. And we still have to make the playoffs.
August 1, 200421 yr did we even add salary? 488071[/snapback] Yeah we did. Carny makes about 1.3 million for the rest of the year and he makes 4.4 million next year. Loduca is making close to 4 million right now. And is up for arbitration next year Mota is making about 1.5 million. Also up for arbitration.
August 1, 200421 yr ya well you arent getting mota and loduca for penny and murphy. period. 488086[/snapback] It should've been Penny and Murphy for Lo Duca and Ishii. Mota's great and all, but in the big picture starting pitching will always be more important than the bullpen.
August 1, 200421 yr did we even add salary? 488071[/snapback] Yeah we did. Carny makes about 1.3 million for the rest of the year and he makes 4.4 million next year. Loduca is making close to 4 million right now. And is up for arbitration next year Mota is making about 1.5 million. Also up for arbitration. 488090[/snapback] but I read that we got Loduca paid for by the Dodgers and how much is Penny making? I doubt we even took on money
August 1, 200421 yr you only use 3 and a half starters in the playoffs. if Valdez can eat innings and keep the team in games....you are in a win/win situation. and i think he will. 488084[/snapback] It was nice having starters in the pen in the playoffs. I'd still probably take Penny over Mota in the pen, if that were the choice. And we still have to make the playoffs. 488088[/snapback] Penny would never be happy in the pen though. here's the bottom line....the marlins won this deal. and its not really THAT close.
August 1, 200421 yr ya well you arent getting mota and loduca for penny and murphy. period. 488086[/snapback] So your telling me a young starting pitcher with a low 3 era is not worth a 32 year old catcher who is above average but far from great and a 32 year old reliever whos only had 2 good seasons in his career. Oh they also got a pretty good pitching prospect in Murphy.
August 1, 200421 yr you only use 3 and a half starters in the playoffs. if Valdez can eat innings and keep the team in games....you are in a win/win situation. and i think he will. 488084[/snapback] It was nice having starters in the pen in the playoffs. I'd still probably take Penny over Mota in the pen, if that were the choice. And we still have to make the playoffs. 488088[/snapback] Penny would never be happy in the pen though. here's the bottom line....the marlins won this deal. and its not really THAT close. 488094[/snapback] Well, no kidding...Dontrelle would be in the pen most likely. I'm not even going to respond to the rest of this message.
August 1, 200421 yr what you cant measure is what Lo Duca brings to the table the heart, the soul, the intangibles we needed a leader. we got one
August 1, 200421 yr did we even add salary? 488071[/snapback] Yeah we did. Carny makes about 1.3 million for the rest of the year and he makes 4.4 million next year. Loduca is making close to 4 million right now. And is up for arbitration next year Mota is making about 1.5 million. Also up for arbitration. 488090[/snapback] but I read that we got Loduca paid for by the Dodgers and how much is Penny making? I doubt we even took on money 488092[/snapback] Well I hadnt read that part on the Dodgers paying the rest of LoDucas salary for the year but we still got Carny on the books for next year at 4.4 million which is about 2.4 million to much for what he provides.
August 1, 200421 yr ya well you arent getting mota and loduca for penny and murphy. period. 488086[/snapback] So your telling me a young starting pitcher with a low 3 era is not worth a 32 year old catcher who is above average but far from great and a 32 year old reliever whos only had 2 good seasons in his career. Oh they also got a pretty good pitching prospect in Murphy. 488095[/snapback] mota is 31 penny's era is in the mid 3's and has underachieved greatly since may...penny also has a problem going more than 6 innings. loduca brings tons of intangibles to the table.
August 1, 200421 yr btw....what numbers are we using to compare choi with juan. this year or career? 488099[/snapback] Does it really matter? Carnys best year is probably worse or maybe on par with the year Choi's having.
August 1, 200421 yr what you cant measure is what Lo Duca brings to the table the heart, the soul, the intangibles we needed a leader. we got one 488102[/snapback] The only way the Marlins win this deal, IMO, is via intangibles. The stuff you can't measure, and the stuff that I admittedly don't know about. I don't know anything about Lo Duca's leadership skills. The only thing I know is the numbers, and via the numbers that are currently en vogue, we got a little bit worse. May the intangibles prove me wrong, I would be a very happy man.
August 1, 200421 yr loduca alone makes this trade worth it. i'd trade penny and choi for loduca almost. loduca brings to the table all the little things that you dont see on teh damn stat sheet. if you ever watch a dodger game you would see this...hell you probably wouldnt....his contributions stretch far beyond the field.
August 1, 200421 yr ya well you arent getting mota and loduca for penny and murphy. period. 488086[/snapback] So your telling me a young starting pitcher with a low 3 era is not worth a 32 year old catcher who is above average but far from great and a 32 year old reliever whos only had 2 good seasons in his career. Oh they also got a pretty good pitching prospect in Murphy. 488095[/snapback] mota is 31 penny's era is in the mid 3's and has underachieved greatly since may...penny also has a problem going more than 6 innings. loduca brings tons of intangibles to the table. 488105[/snapback] I'll give the LoDuca intangibles to you because thats one thing I know that Championship teams need and he will provide that. And like I've said I dont mind giving up Penny because he wasnt going to be back with the team anyways. I just hate the fact we gave up Choi and got back Carny to replace his hitting. I hope they do some type of waiver move.
August 1, 200421 yr btw....what numbers are we using to compare choi with juan. this year or career? 488099[/snapback] Does it really matter? Carnys best year is probably worse or maybe on par with the year Choi's having. 488107[/snapback] that is simply incorrect. hwo many rbi is choi on pace to get?
August 1, 200421 yr ya well the bottom line is that by trading choi...which was almost a necessity to make the deal work....we had to take back someone....juan was the guy the dodgers wanted to move. he fills a void and he plays stellar defense.
August 1, 200421 yr I mean honestly, you get a very good OF in Encarnacion (he's struggling this year I know, so don't throw numbers at me) a AWESOME setup man in Mota, AND solve the catcher hole with Lo Duca. 488032[/snapback] no offense, but you're using the same flawed logic that a lot of the folks who aren't too familiar with the team use. they think to themselves, "hmm, the marlins need a catcher. "hey, they got one! "hmm, the marlins need a setup man. "hey, they got one!" the first flaw in the reasoning is we didn't need a catcher, per se. we needed our offense upgraded. one of the positions where we were lagging the worst, offensively, was catcher. though we got a got a good hitting catcher (who, btw, always tires after the ASB), we gave up one of our better hitters in choi and replaced his bat in the lineup with the worst hitting starting corner outfielder in the game, bar none. juan encarnacion is a piece....who is hitting .234 with a stunning .288 on-base percentage. you dont have to use fancy stats like OPS to see that juan encarnacion is AWFUL and a marked downgrade from hee seop choi. whatever offensive gain we get from lo duca over redmond has just been nullified by replacing choi with the flaming sack of poo known as 432juan. oh, and btw, choi makes $310k and will be paid almost nothing until 2007 when he's arbitration-eligible. these other guys make tons more. once you get past that, the rest of the trade is brad penny and bill murphy for guillermo mota. you're a smart guy oheeoh, so i don't think i need to explain why trading a stud starting pitcher and a great SP prospect for a setup guy is a terrible deal. even peter gammons, perhaps after someone broke it down for him, has pulled a 180 and come to the conclusion that the dodgers have improved "talentwise."
August 1, 200421 yr btw....what numbers are we using to compare choi with juan. this year or career? 488099[/snapback] Does it really matter? Carnys best year is probably worse or maybe on par with the year Choi's having. 488107[/snapback] that is simply incorrect. hwo many rbi is choi on pace to get? 488111[/snapback] Probably around 70 rbis. I'm sorry but I dont measure a players success by RBI's only. Its a determining factor but not the only one.
August 1, 200421 yr btw....what numbers are we using to compare choi with juan. this year or career? 488099[/snapback] Does it really matter? Carnys best year is probably worse or maybe on par with the year Choi's having. 488107[/snapback] that is simply incorrect. hwo many rbi is choi on pace to get? 488111[/snapback] Dammit, rbis are the most useless stat in baseball. I don't know how many times I've said that in the past 2 days.
August 1, 200421 yr Wow everyone is complaining, Why dont you guys become GMs if so you can make the Marlins better with all your trades. Maybe then the Marlins would have 1-8 all over .700 SLG % and 400+ OPS. Sigh, I like this trade helps out this team alot.
August 1, 200421 yr I mean honestly, you get a very good OF in Encarnacion (he's struggling this year I know, so don't throw numbers at me) a AWESOME setup man in Mota, AND solve the catcher hole with Lo Duca. 488032[/snapback] no offense, but you're using the same flawed logic that a lot of the folks who aren't too familiar with the team use. they think to themselves, "hmm, the marlins need a catcher. "hey, they got one! "hmm, the marlins need a setup man. "hey, they got one!" the first flaw in the reasoning is we didn't need a catcher, per se. we needed our offense upgraded. one of the positions where we were lagging the worst, offensively, was catcher. though we got a got a good hitting catcher (who, btw, always tires after the ASB), we gave up one of our better hitters in choi and replaced his bat in the lineup with the worst hitting starting corner outfielder in the game, bar none. juan encarnacion is a piece....who is hitting .234 with a stunning .288 on-base percentage. you dont have to use fancy stats like OPS to see that juan encarnacion is AWFUL and a marked downgrade from hee seop choi. whatever offensive gain we get from lo duca over redmond has just been nullified by replacing choi with the flaming sack of poo known as 432juan. once you get past that, the rest of the trade is brad penny and bill murphy for guillermo mota. you're a smart guy oheeoh, so i don't think i need to explain why trading a stud starting pitcher and a great SP prospect for a setup guy is a terrible deal. even peter gammons, perhaps after someone broke it down for him, has pulled a 180 and come to the conclusion that the dodgers have improved "talentwise." 488114[/snapback] :notworthy
August 1, 200421 yr Look at how many runs Choi is on pace to score despite his limited playing time and his spot in the lineup. He's been pretty productive.
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