August 1, 200421 yr btw....what numbers are we using to compare choi with juan. this year or career? 488099[/snapback] Does it really matter? Carnys best year is probably worse or maybe on par with the year Choi's having. 488107[/snapback] that is simply incorrect. hwo many rbi is choi on pace to get? 488111[/snapback] Dammit, rbis are the most useless stat in baseball. I don't know how many times I've said that in the past 2 days. 488117[/snapback] I dont think its useless but its defintely not more important than Slugging and On Base Percentage.
August 1, 200421 yr the only thing that matters to me is wins for a pitcher and rbi for a hitter --john shurholtz
August 1, 200421 yr It's simple if the guys in front of you don't get on base, you won't be getting a lot of rbis. How can you use a stat that is dependent on other players to evaluate one player's value?
August 1, 200421 yr If the guys in front of Scott Rolen aren't getting on base he doesn't have 300 RBIs already. RBIs are sexy!
August 1, 200421 yr the only thing that matters to me is wins for a pitcher and rbi for a hitter --john shurholtz 488127[/snapback] Yeah I've read that he considers that the most important thing. Its flawed logic but hes gotten somehow lucky with it. But remeber hes only won one WS and I know hes one a bunch of division titles in a row but that soon can be said about Beane just without the ring which he will get soon. Also its easy for him to say Wins for pitchers when he had some great pitchers in Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Avery who all had pretty good ERA's during their time with the braves.
August 1, 200421 yr the only thing that matters to me is wins for a pitcher and rbi for a hitter --john shurholtz 488127[/snapback] i dont know.... how much has shurholtz won? how much has moneyball won? next.
August 1, 200421 yr the only thing that matters to me is wins for a pitcher and rbi for a hitter --john shurholtz 488127[/snapback] Yeah I've read that he considers that the most important thing. Its flawed logic but hes gotten somehow lucky with it. But remeber hes only won one WS and I know hes one a bunch of division titles in a row but that soon can be said about Beane just without the ring which he will get soon. Also its easy for him to say Wins for pitchers when he had some great pitchers in Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Avery who all had pretty good ERA's during their time with the braves. 488136[/snapback] has moneyball even won ONE playoff series?
August 1, 200421 yr Bobby Cox, Leo Mazzone and their coaching staff in the minors, have way more to do with the Braves success than Schuerholz.
August 1, 200421 yr This trade will do us very good. Even though Encarnacion is struggling at some point he will recover and hit good. We got a two solid arms in the pen, i checked out Seanez stats and they arent that bad and then of course Mota who has turned into one of the most dominating setup men. He will set up Mando for the 9 th inning and there wont be much blown games by the bullpen ( i hope). Then we get Loduca who came up big for us tonight and is a great catcher and great to have around. We gave up a good young pitcher, Brad Penny. He has been on and off. He hasnt gotten to the stage of being consistant yet. He did battle his ass of for us but we just needed to trade someone to fill our bullpen and catcher holes which were more important. Then we went out and a got a solid reliever who can fill in for penny this year. We also gave up Choi, a good bat but strikes out way to many times for the little At bats he had. He never played against lefties because he had a low average against them. We got Conine over at first who is experienced at that position and put encarnacion in RF. This deal worked out for us. The dodgers just handed us the division (probably).
August 1, 200421 yr Bobby Cox, Leo Mazzone and their coaching staff in the minors, have way more to do with the Braves success than Schuerholz. 488142[/snapback] cause schuerholz doesnt sign the players right.....
August 1, 200421 yr You look at the guys the Braves have signed over the past couple years, I'm not so sure the GM is following his own advice.
August 1, 200421 yr the only thing that matters to me is wins for a pitcher and rbi for a hitter --john shurholtz 488127[/snapback] Yeah I've read that he considers that the most important thing. Its flawed logic but hes gotten somehow lucky with it. But remeber hes only won one WS and I know hes one a bunch of division titles in a row but that soon can be said about Beane just without the ring which he will get soon. Also its easy for him to say Wins for pitchers when he had some great pitchers in Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Avery who all had pretty good ERA's during their time with the braves. 488136[/snapback] has moneyball even won ONE playoff series? 488141[/snapback] I'd answer that if I knew the answer. lol Playoffs also have a high degree amount of luck too.
August 1, 200421 yr the only thing that matters to me is wins for a pitcher and rbi for a hitter --john shurholtz 488127[/snapback] Yeah I've read that he considers that the most important thing. Its flawed logic but hes gotten somehow lucky with it. But remeber hes only won one WS and I know hes one a bunch of division titles in a row but that soon can be said about Beane just without the ring which he will get soon. Also its easy for him to say Wins for pitchers when he had some great pitchers in Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Avery who all had pretty good ERA's during their time with the braves. 488136[/snapback] has moneyball even won ONE playoff series? 488141[/snapback] I'd answer that if I knew the answer. lol Playoffs also have a high degree amount of luck too. 488146[/snapback] well the answer is none
August 1, 200421 yr Bobby Cox, Leo Mazzone and their coaching staff in the minors, have way more to do with the Braves success than Schuerholz. 488142[/snapback] cause schuerholz doesnt sign the players right..... 488144[/snapback] If you're coaching staff can turn bad players into good ones (AKA Jaret Wright) they can make a GM look very good. The biggest reason though that the Braves continue to have success is their farm system spits out a quality player or 2 every year. I think it's safe to say that when the Braves make a decision on whether to draft or sign a high school, college, or foreign player they don't make their decision based on wins and rbis.
August 1, 200421 yr don't pigeonhole it into schuerholz vs. moneyball no matter how much stock you put in a stat like RBI, choi is a better offensive talent than juan encarnacion, hands down. a guy who sees .270 / .388 / .498 / 15 HR / 40 rbi (choi) versus .235 / .289 / .411 / 13 HR / 43 rbi (enc) and thinks choi is better offensively doesn't necessarily fall into the "moneyball" group. by the way, another peter gammons quote on the dodgers (yeah, it's worth jack, but its fun anyway): "they've replaced encarnacion with choi. upgraded seriously there."
August 1, 200421 yr don't pigeonhole it into schuerholz vs. moneyball no matter how much stock you put in a stat like RBI, choi is a better offensive talent than juan encarnacion, hands down. a guy who sees .270 / .388 / .498 / 15 HR / 40 rbi (choi) versus .235 / .289 / .411 / 13 HR / 43 rbi (enc) and thinks choi is better offensively doesn't necessarily fall into the "moneyball" group. by the way, another peter gammons quote on the dodgers (yeah, it's worth jack, but its fun anyway): "they've replaced encarnacion with choi. upgraded seriously there." 488155[/snapback] Encarnacion=overrated ever since he started putting good numbers in cincy, and he became really overrated after last year
August 1, 200421 yr To all of u who say that RBI's dont matter and that it depends on the htter in front of u....well choi had very good hitters i front of him, if i recall JP, Cabs, castillo, and Lowell are all hitting over .300 and get on base a lot so choi had many chances to bring them in and he was not able to, Also choi started hot with his HR and besides the one vs the phillies and mets i dont recall another HR in JULY
August 1, 200421 yr don't pigeonhole it into schuerholz vs. moneyball no matter how much stock you put in a stat like RBI, choi is a better offensive talent than juan encarnacion, hands down. a guy who sees .270 / .388 / .498 / 15 HR / 40 rbi (choi) versus .235 / .289 / .411 / 13 HR / 43 rbi (enc) and thinks choi is better offensively doesn't necessarily fall into the "moneyball" group. by the way, another peter gammons quote on the dodgers (yeah, it's worth jack, but its fun anyway): "they've replaced encarnacion with choi. upgraded seriously there." 488155[/snapback] thank you. & despite Gammonds saying it, it's still correct. there's no questioning that Choi's better at the plate. And this doesn't even get into salaries. we're on the hook for 5.5 million through next year for a Enc, while Choi would've cost PENNIES. But hey the Marlins have plenty of money to throw around don't they?
August 1, 200421 yr To all of u who say that RBI's dont matter and that it depends on the htter in front of u....well choi had very good hitters i front of him, if i recall JP, Cabs, castillo, and Lowell are all hitting over .300 and get on base a lot so choi had many chances to bring them in and he was not able to, Also choi started hot with his HR and besides the one vs the phillies and mets i dont recall another HR in JULY 488162[/snapback] you might want to keep in mind also that this is Choi's FIRST FULL SEASON in the majors, he hasn't been terrific but the numbers he's putting up are very promising. would you like to support Encarnacion's job lately too then?
August 1, 200421 yr To all of u who say that RBI's dont matter and that it depends on the htter in front of u....well choi had very good hitters i front of him, if i recall JP, Cabs, castillo, and Lowell are all hitting over .300 and get on base a lot so choi had many chances to bring them in and he was not able to, Also choi started hot with his HR and besides the one vs the phillies and mets i dont recall another HR in JULY 488162[/snapback] he also had Conine infront of him and a lot of rally's ended with Conine. The fact of the matter is Cabs and Lowell had twice as many at-bats with runners on than Choi did, and that's why Choi didn't have a lot of rbis, it's not that hard to figure out.
August 1, 200421 yr Pudge last year hit .297 with 16 hr's Lo Duca is hitting .303 with 11 hr's so will at least equal or be better than pudge offenisvley....defensivley he is almost as good as pudge.....Mota is the best set up man in the NL period. Encarnacion plays great D...has speed ... and has occasional pop in his bat a carrer .270 hitter so im sure he will heat up some time...plus we got saenez who is reliable....and Valdez does not make up for penny but i think he will be able to keep us in games...our bullpen went from a weakness to a strength....and we have one of the best catchers in the game this year....i say we made a GOOD DEAL !
August 1, 200421 yr remember we got 2 bats in the trade not only 1 AND I'LL TAKE LO DUCA AND ENCARNACION OVER REDMAN AND CHOI ANYDAY 2003----------2004 JP-------------JP Castillo-------Castillo pudge---------Lo Duca all star and better then most C (not better then pudge) Lowell---------Lowell Cabrera-------Cabrera Lee-------------Conine Encarnacin-----Encanacion Gonzo----------Gonzo Beckett---------Beckett Pavano---------Pavano Willis------------Willis Penny-----------A.J. Redman--------- Valdez (basically not much of a downgrade) Urbina-----------Benitez Fox--------------Mota THE TEAM LOOKS GOOD TO ME (ALMOST THE SAME THE WON THE CHAMP.)
August 1, 200421 yr remember we got 2 bats in the trade not only 1 AND I'LL TAKE LO DUCA AND ENCARNACION OVER REDMAN AND CHOI ANYDAY 2003----------2004 JP-------------JP Castillo-------Castillo pudge---------Lo Duca all star and better then most C (not better then pudge) Lowell---------Lowell Cabrera-------Cabrera Lee-------------Conine Encarnacin-----Encanacion Gonzo----------Gonzo Beckett---------Beckett Pavano---------Pavano Willis------------Willis Penny-----------A.J. Redman--------- Valdez (basically not much of a downgrade) Urbina-----------Benitez Fox--------------Mota THE TEAM LOOKS GOOD TO ME (ALMOST THE SAME THE WON THE CHAMP.)
August 1, 200421 yr I mean honestly, you get a very good OF in Encarnacion (he's struggling this year I know, so don't throw numbers at me) 488032[/snapback] If he just sucked this year it would be less of an issue. Encarnacion has always sucked. He has some stats that some people confuse as meaningful, but really he doesn't produce runs.
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