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Craig
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How could ANYBODY rip the Dodgers/Marlins trade from the Marlins perspective?

 

I mean honestly, you get a very good OF in Encarnacion (he's struggling this year I know, so don't throw numbers at me) a AWESOME setup man in Mota, AND solve the catcher hole with Lo Duca.

 

And to do this, you give up a young 1B who can't hit lefties, a AA pitcher, and Penny, who wasn't coming back IMO next year anyways.

 

Then, you go out and pitch up Seanez for another pen arm, and get Valdez, who will be a pretty good #5 starter.

 

You guys FLEECED LA, that's all there is to it. Now go ahead and rip me Choiaholics, Pennymaniacs, and Bill Murphy Fan Club Members, because your wrong.

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Now go ahead and rip me Choiaholics, Pennymaniacs, and Bill Murphy Fan Club Members, because your wrong.

488032[/snapback]

 

It's you're wrong or you are wrong not your wrong. Sorry I'm part of the Spelling Fan Club. ;)

 

As for the deal, it's growing on me.

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It's a new day so I can do this again.

 

I don't like this trade because we lost offense (if you go by OPS), we lost pitching (if you feel starters are more valuable than relievers), and we lost a prospect (we should have gotten one). This trade is bad today, and worse in the future. That's why I don't like it. Yes, we filled holes...that's the new buzzword around here, holes. But we got a little more mediocre in the process.

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How could ANYBODY rip the Dodgers/Marlins trade from the Marlins perspective?

 

I mean honestly, you get a very good OF in Encarnacion (he's struggling this year I know, so don't throw numbers at me) a AWESOME setup man in Mota, AND solve the catcher hole with Lo Duca.

 

And to do this, you give up a young 1B who can't hit lefties, a AA pitcher, and Penny, who wasn't coming back IMO next year anyways.

 

Then, you go out and pitch up Seanez for another pen arm, and get Valdez, who will be a pretty good #5 starter.

 

You guys FLEECED LA, that's all there is to it. Now go ahead and rip me Choiaholics, Pennymaniacs, and Bill Murphy Fan Club Members, because your wrong.

488032[/snapback]

 

All I'm going to say is look at Encarnacion's career numbers.

 

thats all.

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It's a new day so I can do this again.

 

I don't like this trade because we lost offense (if you go by OPS), we lost pitching (if you feel starters are more valuable than relievers), and we lost a prospect (we should have gotten one). This trade is bad today, and worse in the future. That's why I don't like it. Yes, we filled holes...that's the new buzzword around here, holes. But we got a little more mediocre in the process.

488048[/snapback]

 

 

A few things in response:

 

1. I could give a s*** less about OPS

 

2. They are called prospects for a reason, because they COULD be good in MLB, not because they are yet.

 

3. You still have 4 very good starters and then a decent #5, reminds me of that team the Marlins won the WS with last year.

 

4. Filling holes is a GOOD thing buddy, don't forget that.

 

5. Why is this worse in the future? Because you gave up a young 1B who can't hit lefties and a AA pitcher??

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Now go ahead and rip me Choiaholics, Pennymaniacs, and Bill Murphy Fan Club Members, because your wrong.

488032[/snapback]

 

It's you're wrong or you are wrong not your wrong. Sorry I'm part of the Spelling Fan Club. ;)

 

As for the deal, it's growing on me.

488045[/snapback]

It's real simple Enc is as big a downgrade to Choi as Redmond is to Lo Duca. So we pretty much traded Bill Murphy and Brad Penny for Mota.

 

And the fact that getting rid of Choi will come back to hurt us next season, and for seasons to come.

 

In the end I hope it all works out, but I just don't feel we upgraded enough to warrant hurting our future like that.

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Now go ahead and rip me Choiaholics, Pennymaniacs, and Bill Murphy Fan Club Members, because your wrong.

488032[/snapback]

 

It's you're wrong or you are wrong not your wrong. Sorry I'm part of the Spelling Fan Club. ;)

 

As for the deal, it's growing on me.

488045[/snapback]

It's real simple Enc is as big a downgrade to Choi as Redmond is to Lo Duca. So we pretty much traded Bill Murphy and Brad Penny for Mota.

 

And the fact that getting rid of Choi will come back to hurt us next season, and for seasons to come.

 

In the end I hope it all works out, but I just don't feel we upgraded enough to warrant hurting our future like that.

488059[/snapback]

 

Bill Murphy isn't Mark Prior man.......and why is Enc so much worse than Choi??

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really the only reason I was upset over it was because all the rumored trades I was excited about, then all the sudden Kaz Ishii disappeared from the rumors, replaced by Choi for Encarnacion. That's the only part I wasn't happy about.

 

Mota & Lo Duca I'm happy to have. Mota in particular because we can afford him another year at least. Lo Duca less so because I have my doubts whether we'll keep him when he's arbitration eligible next year.

 

I'm not sure how the Dodgers got so fleeced, getting a frontline stud starting pitcher at the top of his game, and a 1B in his first full year who's already got the highest .OPS on the team. Not to mention Finley.

 

Bottom-line, I'm glad the Marlins made a move though, something had to be done. I don't know whether it will work, but I hope so.

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It's a new day so I can do this again.

 

I don't like this trade because we lost offense (if you go by OPS), we lost pitching (if you feel starters are more valuable than relievers), and we lost a prospect (we should have gotten one). This trade is bad today, and worse in the future. That's why I don't like it. Yes, we filled holes...that's the new buzzword around here, holes. But we got a little more mediocre in the process.

488048[/snapback]

 

 

A few things in response:

 

1. I could give a s*** less about OPS

 

2. They are called prospects for a reason, because they COULD be good in MLB, not because they are yet.

 

3. You still have 4 very good starters and then a decent #5, reminds me of that team the Marlins won the WS with last year.

 

4. Filling holes is a GOOD thing buddy, don't forget that.

 

5. Why is this worse in the future? Because you gave up a young 1B who can't hit lefties and a AA pitcher??

488058[/snapback]

 

1- OPS is one of the best ways to determine a players offensive capabilities.

 

2- I agree with you on the prospects and didnt mind giving up Murphy even if he had potential.

 

3- I agree with that and didnt mind trading Penny since he wasnt going to be back next year anyways.

 

4- We filled 2 holes but made another one in the outfield

 

5- The futures a bit worse since we added salary and lost a good young player in Choi. How can you say he cant hit lefties when he doesnt even get a chance too.

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OPS is for all you moneyball geeks.

 

 

 

its an overrated stat when looking at the big picture.

488065[/snapback]

 

Question

 

 

How is OPS over-rated?

 

It measures your power and ability to get extra bases and your ability to get on base which usually leads to scoring runs last time I checked.

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you want yoru rbi guys to have high slg % which generally leads to higher rbi totals.

 

 

you want your top of the order guys with high OBP numbers, which usually leads to them getting on base.

 

 

 

OPS isnt as bad as some of the idiotic stats out there......but it shouldnt be THE number to be looked at.

 

 

eyes can still do a hell of a lot more than anythign else.

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It's a new day so I can do this again.

 

I don't like this trade because we lost offense (if you go by OPS), we lost pitching (if you feel starters are more valuable than relievers), and we lost a prospect (we should have gotten one).? This trade is bad today, and worse in the future.? That's why I don't like it.? Yes, we filled holes...that's the new buzzword around here, holes.? But we got a little more mediocre in the process.

488048[/snapback]

 

 

A few things in response:

 

1. I could give a s*** less about OPS

 

2. They are called prospects for a reason, because they COULD be good in MLB, not because they are yet.

 

3. You still have 4 very good starters and then a decent #5, reminds me of that team the Marlins won the WS with last year.

 

4. Filling holes is a GOOD thing buddy, don't forget that.

 

5. Why is this worse in the future? Because you gave up a young 1B who can't hit lefties and a AA pitcher??

488058[/snapback]

 

OK,

 

1. It's hard to argue with you if you don't care about OPS. That's my argument. If your response is that OPS means nothing to you, I guess we'll just leave it at that. I don't think that would hold in a court of law, though. ("I could give a s*** less about DNA!")

 

2. I really don't care about the prospects. It's a bad trade without Bill Murphy (who I'd never heard of before). I'm just saying that since it's a bad trade we should be getting prospects, not giving them).

 

3. Five good starters...obviously better than 4 good starters. That seems to me a silly argument.

 

4. Filling holes is good, but not when you're opening more holes, and hurting yourself on both sides of the ball, so to speak. I would say improving your offense and your pitching is also a good thing. And far more important than filling holes.

 

5. I obviously like Choi more than you. He was cheap, too. I don't know if these other guys will be here long term.

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you want yoru rbi guys to have high slg % which generally leads to higher rbi totals.

 

 

you want your top of the order guys with high OBP numbers, which usually leads to them getting on base.

 

 

 

OPS isnt as bad as some of the idiotic stats out there......but it shouldnt be THE number to be looked at.

 

 

eyes can still do a hell of a lot more than anythign else.

488073[/snapback]

 

I wont argue with that but I've seen Carny's numbers and I have seen him play with my own eyes.

 

And he isnt good. He's one of the worst hitting Rightfielders in the game.

 

period.

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Now go ahead and rip me Choiaholics, Pennymaniacs, and Bill Murphy Fan Club Members, because your wrong.

488032[/snapback]

 

It's you're wrong or you are wrong not your wrong. Sorry I'm part of the Spelling Fan Club. ;)

 

As for the deal, it's growing on me.

488045[/snapback]

It's real simple Enc is as big a downgrade to Choi as Redmond is to Lo Duca. So we pretty much traded Bill Murphy and Brad Penny for Mota.

 

And the fact that getting rid of Choi will come back to hurt us next season, and for seasons to come.

 

In the end I hope it all works out, but I just don't feel we upgraded enough to warrant hurting our future like that.

488059[/snapback]

 

Bill Murphy isn't Mark Prior man.......and why is Enc so much worse than Choi??

488062[/snapback]

Enc makes an out 71% of the time. Choi makes an out 61% of the time. Choi is slugging near .500 while Enc is slugging about .410. Here's a real simple reason, why Choi is better. Choi's 2003 salary $310,000, Enc's 2003 salary: $4 million. Choi's 2004 salary: definitely less than $1 million, Enc's 2004 salary: $4.5 million, and the fact that Choi wouldn't become a free agent until 2009.

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