from the Sun-Sentinel: "BERARDINO: Heavy thinking on Leiter deal"

 

BERARDINO: Heavy thinking on Leiter deal

Published December 6, 2004

 

The Marlins are waiting. Al Leiter is waiting. And the question is why.

 

Is it because they are still negotiating? Or is it because they have a handshake deal to bring back the former World Series hero so he can close out an impressive career near his Weston home and his young family?

 

Is it all about the draft pick, as so many of these artificial delays are? As a Type-A free agent, Leiter can't be signed before Wednesday without costing a first-round pick in compensation.

 

With the Mets almost certain to withhold an arbitration offer by Tuesday's deadline, there seems little incentive to announce a deal beforehand. Why give up a pick when you don't have to, right?

 

George Steinbrenner, that's why.

 

The Yankees don't want to burn a pick on Leiter either, but they have told him they'd still like to talk once the arbitration deadline has passed. Considering Leiter's deep roots in the New York area, including a childhood in New Jersey and the last seven years in a Mets uniform, a last-minute Yankee swoop-down shouldn't be discounted.

 

Remember how Steinbrenner stole David Wells out from under Jerry Colangelo's clutches a few years back when the former Diamondbacks chairman thought he had a handshake deal with Wells?

 

And where would that leave the Marlins if Leiter winds up in pinstripes? Looking like greedy fools.

 

Sure, they could take the same money -- anywhere from $5 million to $8 million next season, depending on whom you believe -- and put it back into the Carl Pavano Retention Fund, but let's face it: Pavano isn't coming back here.

 

Not with Carlpalooza in full flower and his talented right arm causing more genuflecting than the Virgin Mary Grilled Cheese Sandwich Tour.

 

Even at 39, Leiter makes a lot of sense for the Marlins, who prefer to go year to year with their investments anyway. All right, so he failed to last six innings in 13 of his 30 starts last year and he has been bothered in recent years by a creaky knee and shoulder.

 

But the man can still pitch, as shown by his 3.21 ERA last year, ninth in the National League. Just as vitally, the man can communicate.

 

Fox Sports understands that, adding Leiter to its postseason broadcast booth the past two Octobers. His former Mets teammates understand that, too, having seen his impact on Shawn Estes, Jeff D'Amico and Braden Looper over the years.

 

And if any rotation could use some veteran guidance, it's the Marlins' volatile triumvirate of Josh Beckett, A.J. Burnett and Dontrelle Willis.

 

"They're not bad [people]," Marlins manager Jack McKeon insisted recently. "I really don't think they're bad. They're just dying to get information."

 

Hiring the respected Mark Wiley to replace Wayne Rosenthal as pitching coach was a solid first step. Importing Leiter to add the finishing touches to those impressionable young minds would be a coup.

 

"The man has great work habits," said free-agent Marlins reliever David Weathers. "He prepares awesome. I think that may help some of the younger guys to show them the way the game is played. You just don't show up every fifth day and it just happens."

 

Weathers knows what Leiter could bring to the table, having teamed with him in parts of six seasons: Blue Jays (1991-92), Marlins ('96) and Mets (2002-04).

 

Plus, you know how many pitchers 36 or older the Marlins have had the last seven seasons? Four, and that includes Weathers, who was 35 until the last week of this past season.

 

The others are Josias Manzanillo (2003), Joe Strong (2000-01) and Donn Pall (1998).

 

That's right. Not a single veteran starter anywhere close to Leiter's vintage has passed through the Marlins clubhouse since the Great Fire Sale of '97. Alex Fernandez doesn't count because he retired at 31.

 

Talk about your wisdom gaps. No wonder a cad like Dan Miceli assumed a svengali role in that pen several years back.

 

(By the way, has anyone else noticed how much new Florida Gators football coach Urban Meyer looks like Leiter? If Leiter does sign here, the Marlins ought to have Meyer throw out the first pitch before his home debut.)

 

There's also talk Leiter would join the Marlins' TV broadcast team upon his retirement. If so, Leiter could remain a valuable resource for Marlins pitchers for years to come.

 

Just as it helps the Braves immeasurably having Don Sutton around, not to mention the Yankees with Jim Kaat and the Mets with Tom Seaver, the Marlins could have their own pitching Ph.D.

 

Sold yet? The Marlins should be. Draft pick or no draft pick.

 

Get the deal done already.

 

Mike Berardino can be reached at mberardino@sun-sentinel.com.

Copyright ? 2004, South Florida Sun-Sentinel

If he doesn't sign by Wed, then I'll start to get nervous

good read

 

 

bring Leiter NOW !!!

I don't want to rush this, but if the Yanks snatch him I'll be pulling my hair out. And they can most certainly outbid the Marlins for Leiter.

 

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but aren't the Marlins getting another 1st round pick from somewhere anyway?

I don't want to rush this, but if the Yanks snatch him I'll be pulling my hair out. And they can most certainly outbid the Marlins for Leiter.

 

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but aren't the Marlins getting another 1st round pick from somewhere anyway?

628070[/snapback]

San Fran, and Minny (not sure on that one).

he failed to last six innings in 13 of his 30 starts last year

 

Its a good thing we have that aweomse bullpen waiting....

 

 

Oh wait, nevermind.

Wait until Wednesday so we don't lose a draft pick.

As is always the case with Berardino, he looks to package a story to cast the worst possible light on the Marlins and in this case, what may be going on is that it's LEITER who doesn't want to sign until Weds. in hopes getting that offer from George.

 

It takes two to tango, and two sides to make a deal. I wouldn't blame Leiter if he wanted to wait. I don;t like it, but I understand it.

Wait until Wednesday so we don't lose a draft pick.

628171[/snapback]

Agree! anyways I believe the Yankees will sign Eric Milton instead of Leiter,... but with that bottomless pit of $$$ anything is possible :confused

I hope we can sign Leiter because we're in trouble if we don't sign him or Pavano.

I don't want his old ass....Sign Odalis Perez or Jon Lieber.

If we lose him waiting for the arbitration deadline to pass, so what? There are much better pitchers still out there.

If we lose him waiting for the arbitration deadline to pass, so what? There are much better pitchers still out there.

628229[/snapback]

 

 

In the case of Leiter, the case being made for acquiring him is predicated not just on his value as a pitcher but also on his value as a mentor. How you value that component is your decision but a significant number of people in the media seem to think the Marlins organization places a high value on it.

As is always the case with Berardino, he looks to package a story to cast the worst possible light on the Marlins and in this case, what may be going on is that it's LEITER who doesn't want to sign until Weds. in hopes getting that offer from George.

 

It takes two to tango, and two sides to make a deal. I wouldn't blame Leiter if he wanted to wait. I don;t like it, but I understand it.

628176[/snapback]

 

The Yankees are making Milton their top priority along with Pavano, and they're waiting on Pedro, and the D'backs to come to their senses. At this point, calling Leiter their plan C is accurate.

 

What's more, if I were forced to fathom a guess, the only reason it's taking this long is that Leiter is simply waiting to see if the Mets offer him arbitration, if they do (which I don't think they will) he returns...if not he's here. We're offering him the best possible deal (because of the broadcasting thing) and a chance to stay in the National League...something he unquestionably wants over going to the hitters' haven of the AL.

 

Come Thursday, if he isn't signed, I'm worried.

The thing that I've been trying to grok is exactly how valuable having an additional draft pick is to the Marlins considering they have an one in hand from Mando plus the sandwich pick for Redmond.

 

I'm not an expert on it but my sense is few of them, for one reason or another - injury, skill, etc. - ever really work out. For every Josh Beckett there's a Josh Booty. Then there's develop costs and time value. The Marlins are picking fifteenth or sixteenth, how much lesser a player is the team going to be able to acquire if they slide down to San Fran's slot?

 

My guess is by the time you pick 15th or 25th there isn't a whole lot of difference.

 

So this not wanting to give up a draft pick may very well be a red herring.

 

If anyone knows a good site that focuses on draft picks - past draft signing costs, numbers who made it to the bigs, etc., I'd like to take a look.

The thing that I've been trying to grok is exactly how valuable having an additional draft pick is to the Marlins considering they have an one in hand from Mando plus the sandwich pick for Redmond.

 

I'm not an expert on it but my sense is few of them, for one reason or another - injury, skill, etc. - ever really work out. For every Josh Beckett there's a Josh Booty. Then there's develop costs and time value. The Marlins are picking fifteenth or sixteenth, how much lesser a player is the team going to be able to acquire if they slide down to San Fran's slot?

 

My guess is by the time you pick 15th or 25th there isn't a whole lot of difference.

 

So this not wanting to give up a draft pick may very well be a red herring.

 

If anyone knows a good site that focuses on draft picks - past draft signing costs, numbers who made it to the bigs, etc., I'd like to take a look.

628233[/snapback]

 

Your logic is very sound, and I agree with it. But, I'm torn on how Beinfest is approaching this, I mean, I don't think he's overvaluing the pick.

 

Regardless of losing the 16th pick, we will have at the very least one first rounder (from the Giants, and depending on where Pavano signs) two sandwich rounders (Pavano, 'Mando) and an additionaly second rounder (Redmond) that 16th pick will only be valuable if we had a good scouting system and talent evaluator (as far as I'm concerned, Beinfest's track record on draft day suggests that the first rounder is insignificant considering that our top "picks" over the last few drafts have come from the second round or later).

 

I repeat, the only reason this is taking so long is because Leiter wants to see if the Mets will offer him arbitration. Other than that, he's not going anywhere besides the Marlins. He has no loyalty to the Yankees, and he's a class act, so I don't anticipate him pulling the carpet out from under us. I don't know the legality of a deal like this, but Leiter may have at least agreed (in some form) to a contract with the Marlins contingent upon the Mets NOT offering arbitration...because we've always known that the Mets are his first choice.

The thing that I've been trying to grok is exactly how valuable having an additional draft pick is to the Marlins considering they have an one in hand from Mando plus the sandwich pick for Redmond.

 

 

Very valuable, considering this is a budget-conscious team and you never know what you're going to get from a baseball pick. If you want the Marlins to be competitive year-in and year-out then you're not going to want them to throw away high draft picks on aged talent; otherwise you'll be bitching about how we can't afford X superstar, because we have to spend millions of dollars on veteran stopgaps, 'cos the minors aren't stocked. Drafting at lower rounds is a game of severly diminishing returns.

Swifty, that's been your contention all along and it's shared by a number of people in the media. I suspect you're right and if you are, then the entire Berardino theory (that the Marlins selfishly don't want to give up a draft pick) goes right out the window.

We're not going to get a pick for Pavano unless he magically signs by tomorrow, to my knowledge.

Swifty, that's been your contention all along and it's shared by a number of people in the media. I suspect you're right and if you are, then the entire Berardino theory (that the Marlins selfishly don't want to give up a draft pick) goes right out the window.

628245[/snapback]

 

I think that if the Marlins were told you can have Leiter at the expense of the 16th pick in the draft, it's a no-brainer, and everyone in the organization would conced that for our needs, no pitcher available fits what we want more than Al Leiter. He's a lefthanded starter, he's a big game pitcher, and he's a veteran who is also a "teacher." However, what Berardino neglects to mention is that Leiter will not sign anywhere until every single possible return to the Mets is exhausted.

 

And, again, check the papers: they (the Yankees) are focused on getting at least 2 of these 3 in pinstripes for next season Lieber, Pavano, Milton. After that, they'd like to see what they can do to get Brown out of town, but that's not going to be easy considering he has a no-trade and no desire to leave.

We're not going to get a pick for Pavano unless he magically signs by tomorrow, to my knowledge.

628266[/snapback]

 

We will absolutely offer him arbitration. It's a win win for us, one year of Pavano at $8-$9 mil or the picks...or *gasp* he decides to come back. I mean, every thing lately says we're still negotiating with him, so not offering him arbitration would be dumb.

We're not going to get a pick for Pavano unless he magically signs by tomorrow, to my knowledge.

628266[/snapback]

 

We will absolutely offer him arbitration. It's a win win for us, one year of Pavano at $8-$9 mil or the picks...or *gasp* he decides to come back. I mean, every thing lately says we're still negotiating with him, so not offering him arbitration would be dumb.

628269[/snapback]

agreed

We're not going to get a pick for Pavano unless he magically signs by tomorrow, to my knowledge.

628266[/snapback]

 

We will absolutely offer him arbitration. It's a win win for us, one year of Pavano at $8-$9 mil or the picks...or *gasp* he decides to come back. I mean, every thing lately says we're still negotiating with him, so not offering him arbitration would be dumb.

628269[/snapback]

Hopefully they won't forget to offer any of the free agents (Benitez, Pavano, Redmond) arbitration. What do you have to lose?

We're not going to get a pick for Pavano unless he magically signs by tomorrow, to my knowledge.

628266[/snapback]

 

We will absolutely offer him arbitration. It's a win win for us, one year of Pavano at $8-$9 mil or the picks...or *gasp* he decides to come back. I mean, every thing lately says we're still negotiating with him, so not offering him arbitration would be dumb.

628269[/snapback]

Hopefully they won't forget to offer any of the free agents (Benitez, Pavano, Redmond) arbitration. What do you have to lose?

628274[/snapback]

is Redmond even a "C" FA?

 

what do we get from the Twins?.... a homer hanky?

I'm pretty sure we'd pick up a sandwich pick from them.