December 12, 200421 yr Only way I would do this trade with the Yankees We get: Vasquez their catching prospect Dioner Navarro about $15 million They get: AJ Burnett Enc Stokes We get a solid starter and a guy who can start for us at catcher in 2006, and will also see plenty of playing time this season. The Yankees get exactly what they need to get the Johnson deal done in Burnett and Stokes.? Oh yeah and Enc. 633162[/snapback] That makes no sense? Why hand over things that help the Yankees get Johnson essentially for Vazquez? I mean, I know the reasons to trade AJ, but why not make every effort to sign AJ long-term before we give up on him. I don't see how people think this is a fair trade, even if the contract is paid AND we make them take Encarnacion (which I don't get because he's only on a one year deal). Vazquez' three "good years" in Montreal produced records of: 16-11, 10-13, 13-12 with ERA's of (respecitvely): 3.42, 3.91, 3.24. Not to mention, he had significantly more IP than K's, AJ's at about a K per inning. I know the argument "he's going to walk at the end of the season, we have to deal him while we can still get return on him." And I also know that we have to deal him now because we can't deal him in season unless we're way out of it, because if we're competitve and we deal AJ Burnett at the deadline, that's a mess. I'm simply saying I hope we go about this methodically, step one should be to see how much AJ wants us to give him to stay; step two should be presenting him with a long term contract; step three (in the event the contract is not signed) should be to find a trade partner (I bet we get way more out of Baltimore than NY); step four should then be the trade. This is opening an old scab wide open, but if we're so hot after the former Loria Montreal Expos team, why the hell were we so passive on the best one of them all, Guerrero? Vazquez, I fear, may have been permanently damaged by New York, and I don't think there's any hope to get him to be anywhere near the level he was in Montreal for this season. Remember, Stottlemeyer has a reputation for messing up guys who come to New York from pitching oriented small market teams. 633180[/snapback] WHY? because to some AJ is the equivalent of Cliff Floyd can you take that risk of signing him long term with his past injuries? Personaly NO. I believe the organization doesn't want to go through this again next year(like this year with Pavano) Your getting a young pitcher in Vasquez(remember just because you can't pitch in NY doesn't mean you can't pitch in the ML) who the organization knows very well from there days in with the Expos. 633195[/snapback] AJ and Cliff Floyd are worlds apart. Floyd had one freak injury in Montreal and after that he kept having recurring injuries in all different places. AJ, until 2003, never had a major injury, never missed extended time, nor did he have shoulder or elbow troubles. One Thommy John surgery later and he's fine. We shut him down at the end of the year as a precaution, but everyone here is high on Chad Fox (who had two TJ surgeries) Tim Spooneybarger (who will be coming back from his first TJ surgery) and wanted to sign John Lieber (who, also, had one TJ surgery). If Thommy John surgery makes you an injury liability, a lot of GM's are taking a dangerous risk.
December 12, 200421 yr Why don't we just sign O. Perez and keep AJ for a year. Our rotation ends up as Burnett, Willis, Beckett, Perez and Leiter. So we lose AJ to free agency next year. NO BIG DEAL!!!! We had two spots to fill this year we'll have two to fill next year. AJ is really due for a breakout year. So what if he's a pain in the butt, Leiter will be huge helping the lefties who will be around for a couple more years anyways.
December 12, 200421 yr Another point, I'm against trading AJ unless Enc is involved. 633207[/snapback] Please, I'm not being sarcastic, explain to me why trading Encarnacion is so damn important. He's got one year left, he's not "blocking" anyone, and all we need is a one year hold-over until Hermida is ready to play in 2006. Plus, the need to dump a one year contract is still something I don't understand. Getting out of a 4, 5, 6 year contract makes sense, but paying someone $2 million of a $4 million deal to play elsewhere doesn't make sense. Wouldn't it make more sense to stick him on the bench as an injury insurance/defensive replacement? We're not even talking about Jason Kendall kind of money here, we're talking about $4.5 million dollars. Who the hell are we going to get for that kind of money that is going to be better than Juan? And, if we do trade him, who are we going to get to replace him? First person to say JD Drew is sent to time-out to think about what they said :whistle .
December 12, 200421 yr Another point, I'm against trading AJ unless Enc is involved. 633207[/snapback] Please, I'm not being sarcastic, explain to me why trading Encarnacion is so damn important. He's got one year left, he's not "blocking" anyone, and all we need is a one year hold-over until Hermida is ready to play in 2006. Plus, the need to dump a one year contract is still something I don't understand. Getting out of a 4, 5, 6 year contract makes sense, but paying someone $2 million of a $4 million deal to play elsewhere doesn't make sense. Wouldn't it make more sense to stick him on the bench as an injury insurance/defensive replacement? We're not even talking about Jason Kendall kind of money here, we're talking about $4.5 million dollars. Who the hell are we going to get for that kind of money that is going to be better than Juan? And, if we do trade him, who are we going to get to replace him? First person to say JD Drew is sent to time-out to think about what they said :whistle . 633216[/snapback] Easy, Cabrera back to Right Field, Conine back to left, Willingham plays a little first and a little left, sign Tino Martinez. (waits for ridiculous comments about how Cabrera can only play left not right.)
December 12, 200421 yr Only way I would do this trade with the Yankees We get: Vasquez their catching prospect Dioner Navarro about $15 million They get: AJ Burnett Enc Stokes We get a solid starter and a guy who can start for us at catcher in 2006, and will also see plenty of playing time this season. The Yankees get exactly what they need to get the Johnson deal done in Burnett and Stokes. Oh yeah and Enc. 633162[/snapback] That makes no sense? Why hand over things that help the Yankees get Johnson essentially for Vazquez? I mean, I know the reasons to trade AJ, but why not make every effort to sign AJ long-term before we give up on him. I don't see how people think this is a fair trade, even if the contract is paid AND we make them take Encarnacion (which I don't get because he's only on a one year deal). Vazquez' three "good years" in Montreal produced records of: 16-11, 10-13, 13-12 with ERA's of (respecitvely): 3.42, 3.91, 3.24. Not to mention, he had significantly more IP than K's, AJ's at about a K per inning. I know the argument "he's going to walk at the end of the season, we have to deal him while we can still get return on him." And I also know that we have to deal him now because we can't deal him in season unless we're way out of it, because if we're competitve and we deal AJ Burnett at the deadline, that's a mess. I'm simply saying I hope we go about this methodically, step one should be to see how much AJ wants us to give him to stay; step two should be presenting him with a long term contract; step three (in the event the contract is not signed) should be to find a trade partner (I bet we get way more out of Baltimore than NY); step four should then be the trade. This is opening an old scab wide open, but if we're so hot after the former Loria Montreal Expos team, why the hell were we so passive on the best one of them all, Guerrero? Vazquez, I fear, may have been permanently damaged by New York, and I don't think there's any hope to get him to be anywhere near the level he was in Montreal for this season. Remember, Stottlemeyer has a reputation for messing up guys who come to New York from pitching oriented small market teams. 633180[/snapback] WHY? because to some AJ is the equivalent of Cliff Floyd can you take that risk of signing him long term with his past injuries? Personaly NO. I believe the organization doesn't want to go through this again next year(like this year with Pavano) Your getting a young pitcher in Vasquez(remember just because you can't pitch in NY doesn't mean you can't pitch in the ML) who the organization knows very well from there days in with the Expos. 633195[/snapback] AJ and Cliff Floyd are worlds apart. Floyd had one freak injury in Montreal and after that he kept having recurring injuries in all different places. AJ, until 2003, never had a major injury, never missed extended time, nor did he have shoulder or elbow troubles. One Thommy John surgery later and he's fine. We shut him down at the end of the year as a precaution, but everyone here is high on Chad Fox (who had two TJ surgeries) Tim Spooneybarger (who will be coming back from his first TJ surgery) and wanted to sign John Lieber (who, also, had one TJ surgery). If Thommy John surgery makes you an injury liability, a lot of GM's are taking a dangerous risk. 633208[/snapback] "We shut him down at the end of the year as a precaution" OK I'll leave it at. Also do you want someone in that clubhouse who doesn't want to be here, and has one foot out the door thinking about his upcoming free agency? look the organization knows who wants to stay here long term and who doesn't. Chemistry is a BIG thing in this clubhouse The Carl thing was different they honestly they thought they had a chance to keep him late last year. Things change, but if you have a chance to get something very good for AJ instead of a first round pick next season...DO IT and don't look back
December 12, 200421 yr All you guys saying trade AJ instead of Beckett, you simply don't understand.? AJ is a free agent after this season and once he becomes a free agent, he is as good as gone regardless of how much money we throw in his face.? He has made it very clear over the past year that he does not want to be a Marlin and he'll get his wish when he becomes a free agent after 2005, so we might as well trade him now and get something in return rather than allow him to leave and we get absolutely nothing. 633077[/snapback] Maybe so, but you don't sell him to the Yankees because of his impending free agency. Vazquez had a bad year last season, and is unbelievably overpaid. You play the "trade Burnett" card just like Billy Beane is doing with Hudson. Pitching is at a premium, if you put a 27 year old ace making only 3.5 million on the market you're going to start a bidding war.... If Beinfest trades Burnett for Vazquez, he's a fool...i'm not opposed to dealing Burnett, but we better get full value for him -- and after the season Vazquez had last year and his current contract status, he sure as hell isn't near Burnett's value. 633088[/snapback] We'd be paying 8 million for Vazquez a season, and money aside he is better than Burnett. We'd have a guaranteed number 1 or number 2 for 3 years instead of risking the chance (high at that) that Burnett leaves next season. If Milton, Ortiz, Leiber are getting these contracts we won't be able to get anyone in next year's FA not even Burnett for less than what Vazquez will make. Plus AJ with is a timebomb. The Yanks want to throw in Felix Rodriguez too? Maybe milk them for more money as oppose to bringing in Felix. Our bullpen far from great is solid, if Beinfest can lower Vazquez's 5 - 6 million by not taking Felix then we'd be stupid not to make the deal, even know it's stupid to not take it.
December 12, 200421 yr Only way I would do this trade with the Yankees We get: Vasquez their catching prospect Dioner Navarro about $15 million They get: AJ Burnett Enc Stokes We get a solid starter and a guy who can start for us at catcher in 2006, and will also see plenty of playing time this season. The Yankees get exactly what they need to get the Johnson deal done in Burnett and Stokes.? Oh yeah and Enc. 633162[/snapback] That makes no sense? Why hand over things that help the Yankees get Johnson essentially for Vazquez? I mean, I know the reasons to trade AJ, but why not make every effort to sign AJ long-term before we give up on him. I don't see how people think this is a fair trade, even if the contract is paid AND we make them take Encarnacion (which I don't get because he's only on a one year deal). Vazquez' three "good years" in Montreal produced records of: 16-11, 10-13, 13-12 with ERA's of (respecitvely): 3.42, 3.91, 3.24. Not to mention, he had significantly more IP than K's, AJ's at about a K per inning. I know the argument "he's going to walk at the end of the season, we have to deal him while we can still get return on him." And I also know that we have to deal him now because we can't deal him in season unless we're way out of it, because if we're competitve and we deal AJ Burnett at the deadline, that's a mess. I'm simply saying I hope we go about this methodically, step one should be to see how much AJ wants us to give him to stay; step two should be presenting him with a long term contract; step three (in the event the contract is not signed) should be to find a trade partner (I bet we get way more out of Baltimore than NY); step four should then be the trade. This is opening an old scab wide open, but if we're so hot after the former Loria Montreal Expos team, why the hell were we so passive on the best one of them all, Guerrero? Vazquez, I fear, may have been permanently damaged by New York, and I don't think there's any hope to get him to be anywhere near the level he was in Montreal for this season. Remember, Stottlemeyer has a reputation for messing up guys who come to New York from pitching oriented small market teams. 633180[/snapback] WHY? because to some AJ is the equivalent of Cliff Floyd can you take that risk of signing him long term with his past injuries? Personaly NO. I believe the organization doesn't want to go through this again next year(like this year with Pavano) Your getting a young pitcher in Vasquez(remember just because you can't pitch in NY doesn't mean you can't pitch in the ML) who the organization knows very well from there days in with the Expos. 633195[/snapback] AJ and Cliff Floyd are worlds apart. Floyd had one freak injury in Montreal and after that he kept having recurring injuries in all different places. AJ, until 2003, never had a major injury, never missed extended time, nor did he have shoulder or elbow troubles. One Thommy John surgery later and he's fine. We shut him down at the end of the year as a precaution, but everyone here is high on Chad Fox (who had two TJ surgeries) Tim Spooneybarger (who will be coming back from his first TJ surgery) and wanted to sign John Lieber (who, also, had one TJ surgery). If Thommy John surgery makes you an injury liability, a lot of GM's are taking a dangerous risk. 633208[/snapback] "We shut him down at the end of the year as a precaution" OK I'll leave it at. Also do you want someone in that clubhouse who doesn't want to be here, and has one foot out the door thinking about his upcoming free agency? look the organization knows who wants to stay here long term and who doesn't. Chemistry is a BIG thing in this clubhouse The Carl thing was different they honestly they thought they had a chance to keep him late last year. Things change, but if you have a chance to get something very good for AJ instead of a first round pick next season...DO IT and don't look back 633230[/snapback] AJ won't get us a first round pick. He's a "no compensation" player right now, so barring the greatest single season performance in history, he won't make type-a status. This too is a big reason why we need to try to sign him. He will not get Tim Hudson money ($12-14 mil) he'll probably get a Kris Benson deal (3 years, $22.5 mil), and even at that, he'll be cheaper than what we'd likely end up paying Javy.
December 12, 200421 yr I don't want F-Rod, we've addressed the bullpen and I think it'll be fine as it is. We've already spent too much money on it. 633197[/snapback] Mota-Spooney-Alfonseca-Jones-F-Rod is too much. You're left in the same spot as the White Sox, Yankees, Phillies and lot of other teams last year. No place to move the ineffective veterans and try out the promising rookies. This is a Billy Koch situation waiting to happen. There's no 40-man active roster as there was over the bulk of Koch's tenure here. Another point, I'm against trading AJ unless Enc is involved. :thumbup Exactly. If the team is going to improve the offense, WHICH IT HAS TOO for us to win, we need Enc's contract and roster spot off the books. Dellucci and Gibbons don't want to come here to compete for a starting job. No one better than Dellucci (who is only slightly-better than Enc anyway) will come here for what's been offered. These are the freaking Yankees, tell them to eat Enc's contract or they can't have Burnett. If that doesn't work, throw in an overrated prospect like Stokes or Miller. Or have them eat the bulk of another offensive player (Giambi?) to send here.
December 12, 200421 yr yea, if AJ goes I hope they throw Enc into any deal as well although I dont see why we dont sign AJ to a 3 year deal anyway
December 12, 200421 yr I don't want F-Rod, we've addressed the bullpen and I think it'll be fine as it is.? We've already spent too much money on it. 633197[/snapback] Exactly. If the team is going to improve the offense, WHICH IT HAS TOO for us to win, we need Enc's contract and roster spot off the books. Dellucci and Gibbons don't want to come here to compete for a starting job. No one better than Dellucci (who is only slightly-better than Enc anyway) will come here for what's been offered. These are the freaking Yankees, tell them to eat Enc's contract or they can't have Burnett. If that doesn't work, throw in an overrated prospect like Stokes or Miller. Or have them eat the bulk of another offensive player (Giambi?) to send here. 633243[/snapback] So, how exactly does trading Encarnacion and freeing up his whopping $4 million help the offense? As you said, no one we can get at that salary will be better than Encarnacion.
December 12, 200421 yr Only way I would do this trade with the Yankees We get: Vasquez their catching prospect Dioner Navarro about $15 million They get: AJ Burnett Enc Stokes We get a solid starter and a guy who can start for us at catcher in 2006, and will also see plenty of playing time this season. The Yankees get exactly what they need to get the Johnson deal done in Burnett and Stokes.? Oh yeah and Enc. 633162[/snapback] That makes no sense? Why hand over things that help the Yankees get Johnson essentially for Vazquez? I mean, I know the reasons to trade AJ, but why not make every effort to sign AJ long-term before we give up on him. I don't see how people think this is a fair trade, even if the contract is paid AND we make them take Encarnacion (which I don't get because he's only on a one year deal). Vazquez' three "good years" in Montreal produced records of: 16-11, 10-13, 13-12 with ERA's of (respecitvely): 3.42, 3.91, 3.24. Not to mention, he had significantly more IP than K's, AJ's at about a K per inning. I know the argument "he's going to walk at the end of the season, we have to deal him while we can still get return on him." And I also know that we have to deal him now because we can't deal him in season unless we're way out of it, because if we're competitve and we deal AJ Burnett at the deadline, that's a mess. I'm simply saying I hope we go about this methodically, step one should be to see how much AJ wants us to give him to stay; step two should be presenting him with a long term contract; step three (in the event the contract is not signed) should be to find a trade partner (I bet we get way more out of Baltimore than NY); step four should then be the trade. This is opening an old scab wide open, but if we're so hot after the former Loria Montreal Expos team, why the hell were we so passive on the best one of them all, Guerrero? Vazquez, I fear, may have been permanently damaged by New York, and I don't think there's any hope to get him to be anywhere near the level he was in Montreal for this season. Remember, Stottlemeyer has a reputation for messing up guys who come to New York from pitching oriented small market teams. 633180[/snapback] WHY? because to some AJ is the equivalent of Cliff Floyd can you take that risk of signing him long term with his past injuries? Personaly NO. I believe the organization doesn't want to go through this again next year(like this year with Pavano) Your getting a young pitcher in Vasquez(remember just because you can't pitch in NY doesn't mean you can't pitch in the ML) who the organization knows very well from there days in with the Expos. 633195[/snapback] AJ and Cliff Floyd are worlds apart. Floyd had one freak injury in Montreal and after that he kept having recurring injuries in all different places. AJ, until 2003, never had a major injury, never missed extended time, nor did he have shoulder or elbow troubles. One Thommy John surgery later and he's fine. We shut him down at the end of the year as a precaution, but everyone here is high on Chad Fox (who had two TJ surgeries) Tim Spooneybarger (who will be coming back from his first TJ surgery) and wanted to sign John Lieber (who, also, had one TJ surgery). If Thommy John surgery makes you an injury liability, a lot of GM's are taking a dangerous risk. 633208[/snapback] "We shut him down at the end of the year as a precaution" OK I'll leave it at. Also do you want someone in that clubhouse who doesn't want to be here, and has one foot out the door thinking about his upcoming free agency? look the organization knows who wants to stay here long term and who doesn't. Chemistry is a BIG thing in this clubhouse The Carl thing was different they honestly they thought they had a chance to keep him late last year. Things change, but if you have a chance to get something very good for AJ instead of a first round pick next season...DO IT and don't look back 633230[/snapback] AJ won't get us a first round pick. He's a "no compensation" player right now, so barring the greatest single season performance in history, he won't make type-a status. This too is a big reason why we need to try to sign him. He will not get Tim Hudson money ($12-14 mil) he'll probably get a Kris Benson deal (3 years, $22.5 mil), and even at that, he'll be cheaper than what we'd likely end up paying Javy. 633237[/snapback] Burnett is good as gone next year. I don't think he'd re-sign and miss out on negotiating with the likes of Boston, New York and LA which if he'd leave for even if we matched their offer sheets. Also the Elias rankings take into account what you've done for the past 2 seasons. Burnett received single digit points for 2003. 40-some for his 2004. If he remains healthy and productive, he'd be a Type A or B free agent and would net the team a 1st round pick. However it's one thing to re-stock the farm, and entirely other thing to get the immediate help that this trade would bring.
December 12, 200421 yr I don't want F-Rod, we've addressed the bullpen and I think it'll be fine as it is.? We've already spent too much money on it. 633197[/snapback] Exactly. If the team is going to improve the offense, WHICH IT HAS TOO for us to win, we need Enc's contract and roster spot off the books. Dellucci and Gibbons don't want to come here to compete for a starting job. No one better than Dellucci (who is only slightly-better than Enc anyway) will come here for what's been offered. These are the freaking Yankees, tell them to eat Enc's contract or they can't have Burnett. If that doesn't work, throw in an overrated prospect like Stokes or Miller. Or have them eat the bulk of another offensive player (Giambi?) to send here. 633243[/snapback] So, how exactly does trading Encarnacion and freeing up his whopping $4 million help the offense? As you said, no one we can get at that salary will be better than Encarnacion. 633247[/snapback] A platoon of Willingham and Tino Martinez would be a huge upgrade over Enc.
December 12, 200421 yr I don't want F-Rod, we've addressed the bullpen and I think it'll be fine as it is.? We've already spent too much money on it. 633197[/snapback] Exactly. If the team is going to improve the offense, WHICH IT HAS TOO for us to win, we need Enc's contract and roster spot off the books. Dellucci and Gibbons don't want to come here to compete for a starting job. No one better than Dellucci (who is only slightly-better than Enc anyway) will come here for what's been offered. These are the freaking Yankees, tell them to eat Enc's contract or they can't have Burnett. If that doesn't work, throw in an overrated prospect like Stokes or Miller. Or have them eat the bulk of another offensive player (Giambi?) to send here. 633243[/snapback] So, how exactly does trading Encarnacion and freeing up his whopping $4 million help the offense? As you said, no one we can get at that salary will be better than Encarnacion. 633247[/snapback] Four plus four equals eight, does it not?
December 12, 200421 yr I don't want F-Rod, we've addressed the bullpen and I think it'll be fine as it is.? We've already spent too much money on it. 633197[/snapback] Exactly. If the team is going to improve the offense, WHICH IT HAS TOO for us to win, we need Enc's contract and roster spot off the books. Dellucci and Gibbons don't want to come here to compete for a starting job. No one better than Dellucci (who is only slightly-better than Enc anyway) will come here for what's been offered. These are the freaking Yankees, tell them to eat Enc's contract or they can't have Burnett. If that doesn't work, throw in an overrated prospect like Stokes or Miller. Or have them eat the bulk of another offensive player (Giambi?) to send here. 633243[/snapback] So, how exactly does trading Encarnacion and freeing up his whopping $4 million help the offense? As you said, no one we can get at that salary will be better than Encarnacion. 633247[/snapback] A platoon of Willingham and Tino Martinez would be a huge upgrade over Enc. 633250[/snapback] :banghead Tino won't come here, he's just waiting for an offer from the Yankees, and Willingham had a shot last year to outproduce Matt Treanor and Mike Redmond (big names, let me assure you) and he couldn't even convince anyone in the front office he was up for that.
December 12, 200421 yr I don't want F-Rod, we've addressed the bullpen and I think it'll be fine as it is.? We've already spent too much money on it. 633197[/snapback] Exactly. If the team is going to improve the offense, WHICH IT HAS TOO for us to win, we need Enc's contract and roster spot off the books. Dellucci and Gibbons don't want to come here to compete for a starting job. No one better than Dellucci (who is only slightly-better than Enc anyway) will come here for what's been offered. These are the freaking Yankees, tell them to eat Enc's contract or they can't have Burnett. If that doesn't work, throw in an overrated prospect like Stokes or Miller. Or have them eat the bulk of another offensive player (Giambi?) to send here. 633243[/snapback] So, how exactly does trading Encarnacion and freeing up his whopping $4 million help the offense? As you said, no one we can get at that salary will be better than Encarnacion. 633247[/snapback] Four plus four equals eight, does it not? 633251[/snapback] Yeah, which is what we're going to be on the hook for to Javy. Or, if you want to say that we're just going to give him the money we offered Pavano, we have to pay Odalis somehow, the most we're going to be left with after we reshape the rotation is $4 million.
December 12, 200421 yr I don't want F-Rod, we've addressed the bullpen and I think it'll be fine as it is.? We've already spent too much money on it. 633197[/snapback] Exactly. If the team is going to improve the offense, WHICH IT HAS TOO for us to win, we need Enc's contract and roster spot off the books. Dellucci and Gibbons don't want to come here to compete for a starting job. No one better than Dellucci (who is only slightly-better than Enc anyway) will come here for what's been offered. These are the freaking Yankees, tell them to eat Enc's contract or they can't have Burnett. If that doesn't work, throw in an overrated prospect like Stokes or Miller. Or have them eat the bulk of another offensive player (Giambi?) to send here. 633243[/snapback] So, how exactly does trading Encarnacion and freeing up his whopping $4 million help the offense? As you said, no one we can get at that salary will be better than Encarnacion. 633247[/snapback] A platoon of Willingham and Tino Martinez would be a huge upgrade over Enc. 633250[/snapback] :banghead Tino won't come here, he's just waiting for an offer from the Yankees, and Willingham had a shot last year to outproduce Matt Treanor and Mike Redmond (big names, let me assure you) and he couldn't even convince anyone in the front office he was up for that. 633252[/snapback] 20 at-bats is a legitimate shot now? A lot of those were as a pinch hitter, and if I recall correctly he only played 2 games at catcher so I wouldn't exactly call that a shot.
December 12, 200421 yr I don't want F-Rod, we've addressed the bullpen and I think it'll be fine as it is.? We've already spent too much money on it. 633197[/snapback] Exactly. If the team is going to improve the offense, WHICH IT HAS TOO for us to win, we need Enc's contract and roster spot off the books. Dellucci and Gibbons don't want to come here to compete for a starting job. No one better than Dellucci (who is only slightly-better than Enc anyway) will come here for what's been offered. These are the freaking Yankees, tell them to eat Enc's contract or they can't have Burnett. If that doesn't work, throw in an overrated prospect like Stokes or Miller. Or have them eat the bulk of another offensive player (Giambi?) to send here. 633243[/snapback] So, how exactly does trading Encarnacion and freeing up his whopping $4 million help the offense? As you said, no one we can get at that salary will be better than Encarnacion. 633247[/snapback] A platoon of Willingham and Tino Martinez would be a huge upgrade over Enc. 633250[/snapback] :banghead Tino won't come here, he's just waiting for an offer from the Yankees, and Willingham had a shot last year to outproduce Matt Treanor and Mike Redmond (big names, let me assure you) and he couldn't even convince anyone in the front office he was up for that. 633252[/snapback] 20 at-bats is a legitimate shot now? A lot of those were as a pinch hitter, and if I recall correctly he only played 2 games at catcher so I wouldn't exactly call that a shot. 633255[/snapback] I'm not saying that he's going to be a .200 hitter for the rest of his career, but the fact that so many people here are high on this guy is astounding to me. He was brought up as a bat, not necessarily a catcher. If the kid has the offensive prowess so many here claim, his bat would have found a way to ease him into left, first, or catcher last season.
December 12, 200421 yr I don't want F-Rod, we've addressed the bullpen and I think it'll be fine as it is.? We've already spent too much money on it. 633197[/snapback] Exactly. If the team is going to improve the offense, WHICH IT HAS TOO for us to win, we need Enc's contract and roster spot off the books. Dellucci and Gibbons don't want to come here to compete for a starting job. No one better than Dellucci (who is only slightly-better than Enc anyway) will come here for what's been offered. These are the freaking Yankees, tell them to eat Enc's contract or they can't have Burnett. If that doesn't work, throw in an overrated prospect like Stokes or Miller. Or have them eat the bulk of another offensive player (Giambi?) to send here. 633243[/snapback] So, how exactly does trading Encarnacion and freeing up his whopping $4 million help the offense? As you said, no one we can get at that salary will be better than Encarnacion. 633247[/snapback] A platoon of Willingham and Tino Martinez would be a huge upgrade over Enc. 633250[/snapback] :banghead Tino won't come here, he's just waiting for an offer from the Yankees, and Willingham had a shot last year to outproduce Matt Treanor and Mike Redmond (big names, let me assure you) and he couldn't even convince anyone in the front office he was up for that. 633252[/snapback] 20 at-bats is a legitimate shot now? A lot of those were as a pinch hitter, and if I recall correctly he only played 2 games at catcher so I wouldn't exactly call that a shot. 633255[/snapback] I'm not saying that he's going to be a .200 hitter for the rest of his career, but the fact that so many people here are high on this guy is astounding to me. He was brought up as a bat, not necessarily a catcher. If the kid has the offensive prowess so many here claim, his bat would have found a way to ease him into left, first, or catcher last season. 633257[/snapback] He wasn't going to light it up coming off the bench and only starting once or twice a week. Hell the kid was making the jump from AA. If you look back at 2003 Cabrera didn't start off too hot making the jump from AA to the majors, and that was as an every day starter. Most, people on this very board wanted us to make a move for an outfielder and send Cabs back to the minors, but we all know what happened after that.
December 12, 200421 yr why can't we just draft latin or korean studs so we dont have to read about how much they dont want to be on this team complete bs
December 12, 200421 yr I am completely opposed to trading Burnett...If anyone, Josh has to go...Burnett is a complete stud, and is going to be even better after he fully recovers from Tommy John. Beckett has not given us a full healthy season. If he would have performed like he was supposed to last year...we would have been in the playoffs. IN addittion, it has been said that he is not a true team player and is always starting s***...(i.e. the Gonzo making an error story) I would like to keep it the way it is...but if we need to trade someone...send Josh away.
December 12, 200421 yr you guys also have to understand that the way things are printed may or may not be how they were said but alot of you are on the "trade that SOB Burnett" wagon already
December 12, 200421 yr I'm all for trading AJ. I just want NY to chew him up and spit him out alive so he know what the real baseball world is like. I want him to see how good he has it now down here, with basically no pressure from anyone.
December 12, 200421 yr I don't want F-Rod, we've addressed the bullpen and I think it'll be fine as it is.? We've already spent too much money on it. 633197[/snapback] Exactly. If the team is going to improve the offense, WHICH IT HAS TOO for us to win, we need Enc's contract and roster spot off the books. Dellucci and Gibbons don't want to come here to compete for a starting job. No one better than Dellucci (who is only slightly-better than Enc anyway) will come here for what's been offered. These are the freaking Yankees, tell them to eat Enc's contract or they can't have Burnett. If that doesn't work, throw in an overrated prospect like Stokes or Miller. Or have them eat the bulk of another offensive player (Giambi?) to send here. 633243[/snapback] So, how exactly does trading Encarnacion and freeing up his whopping $4 million help the offense? As you said, no one we can get at that salary will be better than Encarnacion. 633247[/snapback] Four plus four equals eight, does it not? 633251[/snapback] Yeah, which is what we're going to be on the hook for to Javy. Or, if you want to say that we're just going to give him the money we offered Pavano, we have to pay Odalis somehow, the most we're going to be left with after we reshape the rotation is $4 million. 633253[/snapback] Burnett (4), Encarnacion (4.5) for Vazquez (3.5-5). OK, so you were right. Until you add the current offer to Dellucci (3-4). Making a total of $7-9 to spend elsewhere. Who knows if these numbers are right? After spending over $10 million on Leiter, Jones and Six Fingers I don't know where the Marlins stand payroll-wise. But I don't think they made that offer to Dellucci two weeks ago knowing that the Yankees would come calling after Wright failed his physical, Arizona making an effort to keep Randy, Boston signing Wells and Burnett acted like an ass (OK, maybe that last one).
December 12, 200421 yr At this point trading Encarnacion shouldn't be a big priority, it's obvious we aren't going to add a bat that matters anyhow. It'd be nice to get rid of his contract but then again it is just for this year and he is a good defensive prescence when he tries. His OBP is horrible, but it's over-rated...the team needs more power. If Beinfest was gunning for Delgado, Drew, Ordonez then it'd make sense to push Encarnacion out the door, but he isn't whether or not we trade him. Willingham/Aguila are no guarantees and if Encarnacion can hit 20 homers and play great D then his value would be close to his contract. It looks like Dellucci is over-valued right now with so many teams having an interest in him. He was attractive at first because he seemed like a player that could potentially be a solid starter for a team but with little name recognition someone that could be had cheap. Not anymore. Regardless of what anyone says, there is noone that would come at 4 million or less that would be a much better option offensively... Bringing in Tino would entail a likely bidding war with the Yanks, Cabs in right, and adding a 37 year old to the team...no guarantees
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