December 12, 200421 yr I'm sorry but you people overvalue AJ AJ has had TJ surgery, is the same age as Javy, and only has had one good year and that was pre-TJ surgery. Vasquez had three great seasons consecutively in Montreal, has great stuff, is the same age as AJ and if the Yankees could eat up a good chunk of his contract we could get a big steal. The kid didn't adjust well to the pressure cooker in NY coming from Montreal, but his raw ability is there. Considering AJ doesn't have all that much loyalty to this place, considering what they've done for him,...I'd trade him for Vasquez in a heartbeat.
December 12, 200421 yr But you trade Beckett, not only do you get the higher return on the deal but you probably get a higher reward on the team because Burnett is a better pitcher. Plus, even if they throw in ten mil, we have to pay him 8 mil a season for three years. That just ain't right
December 12, 200421 yr All you guys saying trade AJ instead of Beckett, you simply don't understand. AJ is a free agent after this season and once he becomes a free agent, he is as good as gone regardless of how much money we throw in his face. He has made it very clear over the past year that he does not want to be a Marlin and he'll get his wish when he becomes a free agent after 2005, so we might as well trade him now and get something in return rather than allow him to leave and we get absolutely nothing.
December 12, 200421 yr The Yankees and Marlins appear to be in serious discussions about a deal that would send Javier Vazquez to Florida for A.J. Burnett. The Yankees would probably have to pay $10 million or more of the $34.5 million Vazquez is owed over the next three years. In return, they'd get a pitcher who is due to earn $4 million or so in his final year of arbitration. The Yankees would also likely have to give up either Felix Rodriguez or Brad Halsey to make the deal work. Dec. 12 - 3:40 am et Maybe I'm lost, but since when do they have Felix Rodriguez? It's expected to be announced Sunday that the Dodgers will acquire Tim Hudson from Oakland in exchange for Edwin Jackson and Antonio Perez. That's a lot to give up for one year of a pitcher, but the Dodgers likely will be able to work out an extension with Hudson. While Jackson could step into Hudson's rotation spot, the A's should make him compete for the job. Last year's inconsistency hasn't dimmed his long-term outlook, but he might not be ready to help right away. Perez probably is. He'll be the favorite to start at second base for Oakland, though Mark Ellis's presence will make him a risky pick in fantasy leagues Scratch Hudson off your lists.
December 12, 200421 yr All you guys saying trade AJ instead of Beckett, you simply don't understand.? AJ is a free agent after this season and once he becomes a free agent, he is as good as gone regardless of how much money we throw in his face.? He has made it very clear over the past year that he does not want to be a Marlin and he'll get his wish when he becomes a free agent after 2005, so we might as well trade him now and get something in return rather than allow him to leave and we get absolutely nothing. 633077[/snapback] Maybe so, but you don't sell him to the Yankees because of his impending free agency. Vazquez had a bad year last season, and is unbelievably overpaid. You play the "trade Burnett" card just like Billy Beane is doing with Hudson. Pitching is at a premium, if you put a 27 year old ace making only 3.5 million on the market you're going to start a bidding war.... If Beinfest trades Burnett for Vazquez, he's a fool...i'm not opposed to dealing Burnett, but we better get full value for him -- and after the season Vazquez had last year and his current contract status, he sure as hell isn't near Burnett's value.
December 12, 200421 yr I think I would have to make this trade if it is AJ for Vazquez, another player, and cash. AJ has more potential than Vazquez, no doubt. His stuff is top 5 in baseball. But, Vazquez isn't much of a drop off. In fact, he's much more polished of a pitcher. Look at his numbers the last 3 years in Montreal. Even last year in New York, which was by most accounts a bad season for him, he still put up 200 innings and 14 wins. He is a work-horse. In 7 big league seasons, he's gone over 200 innings 4 times, and had 198 last year. I don't think you can legitimately depend on Burnett to give you 200 innings a year. This doesn't even take into account the money the team would save in the long run or the fact that I think the organization probably wants a little more loyalty from a guy that they paid (what was it, over $2 million?) to rehab for a year. Don't get me wrong, I like AJ. I just think this deal would make a lot of sense. Especially considering AJ's history of arm problems. Also, I think you guys are underestimating just how good a pitcher Vazquez is.
December 12, 200421 yr I was excitied last year when the Yanks got Vasquez.... now I see myself wishing him out... but he is a good pitcher and I think he would do better being back in the NL. AJ may be a Yankee for just a short while before he gets included in a Randy Johnson deal... that would suck but the Yanks STILL haven't found a lefty starter.
December 12, 200421 yr i would hate to see burnett go. they shouldnt even touch him, he plays great here.
December 12, 200421 yr Pavano and Burnett on the Yankees would be awesome.... better chemistry for the team, and since I collect autographs from Yankees and Marlins more than any other team, it would be pretty convenient if I could get Vasquez Yankees 8x10 signed while he's here on Marlins, and opposite goes for AJ and Pavano
December 12, 200421 yr So i guess my source was right :whistle , anyways I'm hearing if AJ goes, O.Perez will signed to go with Vasquez.
December 12, 200421 yr So i guess my source was right :whistle , anyways I'm hearing if AJ goes, O.Perez will signed to go with Vasquez. 633150[/snapback] Ed, you are THE man!
December 12, 200421 yr I'm sorry but you people overvalue AJ AJ has had TJ surgery, is the same age as Javy, and only has had one good year and that was pre-TJ surgery. Vasquez had three great seasons consecutively in Montreal, has great stuff, is the same age as AJ and if the Yankees could eat up a good chunk of his contract we could get a big steal. The kid didn't adjust well to the pressure cooker in NY coming from Montreal, but his raw ability is there. Considering AJ doesn't have all that much loyalty to this place, considering what they've done for him,...I'd trade him for Vasquez in a heartbeat. 633074[/snapback] I am getting sick and tired of Burnett's attitude. We need to move him. Vazquez is a great pitcher who didn't do well in NY last year, but he's still very talented. Let's trade AJ for Vazquez and a reliever or two. AJ needs to go. If he doesn't want to be here, he should get the fck out!! :mad :
December 12, 200421 yr Only way I would do this trade with the Yankees We get: Vasquez their catching prospect Dioner Navarro about $15 million They get: AJ Burnett Enc Stokes We get a solid starter and a guy who can start for us at catcher in 2006, and will also see plenty of playing time this season. The Yankees get exactly what they need to get the Johnson deal done in Burnett and Stokes. Oh yeah and Enc.
December 12, 200421 yr Agreed. This is compete BS and doesn't deserve the right to be on this site. Just forget it people. No need to worry. I guess they just got bored and wanted to report something. 632947[/snapback] I don't see why the idea is BS. I think it has great insight. Burnett doesn't waste an opportunity to trash management, thinks he is the cream of the cup, and will walk out the door and join the Yankees the minute he is able to become a free agent. The guy obviously does not hold pitching for the Marlins in high regard. Trading him for Vazquez, who is a proven NL pitcher, and adding Felix Rodriguez and/or another reliever and/or money is a pretty good trade and I, for one, think it should be done. Let the Yankees deal with this pretty boy... :thumbup
December 12, 200421 yr Fran, no stokes 633163[/snapback] Cape, I don't ever see the kid making the big leagues and doing anything of value. I'm serious. The kid has "light-tower power" but that's about it. He can't play defense, he's setting records in AA for strikeouts, and rarely draws a walk. Not to mention he is always hurt. Despite his power Willingham led Carolina in homers while having less at-bats than Stokes. Willingham is the future at 1st base. It's gonna take on of our prospects to get that deal done. Arizona has shown they've been interested in stokes all year, so I think he'd be the perfect guy to get the deal done.
December 12, 200421 yr Fran, no stokes 633163[/snapback] Cape, I don't ever see the kid making the big leagues and doing anything of value. I'm serious. The kid has "light-tower power" but that's about it. He can't play defense, he's setting records in AA for strikeouts, and rarely draws a walk. Not to mention he is always hurt. Despite his power Willingham led Carolina in homers while having less at-bats than Stokes. Willingham is the future at 1st base. It's gonna take on of our prospects to get that deal done. Arizona has shown they've been interested in stokes all year, so I think he'd be the perfect guy to get the deal done. 633172[/snapback] Stokes is too young to give up on. He's only, what... 21 or 22? Willingham will be 26 this coming year. I wouldn't trade stokes. I would trade Enc. though, just to free up some salary. Maybe with that money we can get another starter or a left handed bat. ... Beckett Leiter Vaz Willis Perez or Millwood Plus a good left handed bat, and we're in good shape.
December 12, 200421 yr Only way I would do this trade with the Yankees We get: Vasquez their catching prospect Dioner Navarro about $15 million They get: AJ Burnett Enc Stokes We get a solid starter and a guy who can start for us at catcher in 2006, and will also see plenty of playing time this season. The Yankees get exactly what they need to get the Johnson deal done in Burnett and Stokes. Oh yeah and Enc. 633162[/snapback] That makes no sense? Why hand over things that help the Yankees get Johnson essentially for Vazquez? I mean, I know the reasons to trade AJ, but why not make every effort to sign AJ long-term before we give up on him. I don't see how people think this is a fair trade, even if the contract is paid AND we make them take Encarnacion (which I don't get because he's only on a one year deal). Vazquez' three "good years" in Montreal produced records of: 16-11, 10-13, 13-12 with ERA's of (respecitvely): 3.42, 3.91, 3.24. Not to mention, he had significantly more IP than K's, AJ's at about a K per inning. I know the argument "he's going to walk at the end of the season, we have to deal him while we can still get return on him." And I also know that we have to deal him now because we can't deal him in season unless we're way out of it, because if we're competitve and we deal AJ Burnett at the deadline, that's a mess. I'm simply saying I hope we go about this methodically, step one should be to see how much AJ wants us to give him to stay; step two should be presenting him with a long term contract; step three (in the event the contract is not signed) should be to find a trade partner (I bet we get way more out of Baltimore than NY); step four should then be the trade. This is opening an old scab wide open, but if we're so hot after the former Loria Montreal Expos team, why the hell were we so passive on the best one of them all, Guerrero? Vazquez, I fear, may have been permanently damaged by New York, and I don't think there's any hope to get him to be anywhere near the level he was in Montreal for this season. Remember, Stottlemeyer has a reputation for messing up guys who come to New York from pitching oriented small market teams.
December 12, 200421 yr Fran, no stokes 633163[/snapback] Cape, I don't ever see the kid making the big leagues and doing anything of value. I'm serious. The kid has "light-tower power" but that's about it. He can't play defense, he's setting records in AA for strikeouts, and rarely draws a walk. Not to mention he is always hurt. Despite his power Willingham led Carolina in homers while having less at-bats than Stokes. Willingham is the future at 1st base. It's gonna take on of our prospects to get that deal done. Arizona has shown they've been interested in stokes all year, so I think he'd be the perfect guy to get the deal done. 633172[/snapback] Stokes is too young to give up on. He's only, what... 21 or 22? Willingham will be 26 this coming year. I wouldn't trade stokes. I would trade Enc. though, just to free up some salary. Maybe with that money we can get another starter or a left handed bat. ... Beckett Leiter Vaz Willis Perez or Millwood Plus a good left handed bat, and we're in good shape. 633178[/snapback] obviously the only reason I included stokes was because that's what I thought it would take. The Yankees are not going to give us Vazquez, $15 million from Vazquez's contract, and one of their best prospectsc. For AJ and Enc.
December 12, 200421 yr TSwift, a deal like this would give us so much more payroll flexibility. Sure I'd much rather get Dunn, but if that's not possible we should do this. It'd probably free up enough money to sign Perez. We'd have the best rotation 1-5 in the national league, we'd get a guy whe will be our future at catcher, and a guy who we'll be able to stick him in there next season to make sure Lo Duca is well rested, and we get rid of Enc's sorry ass.
December 12, 200421 yr I don't see how people think this is a fair trade, even if the contract is paid AND we make them take Encarnacion (which I don't get because he's only on a one year deal). Vazquez' three "good years" in Montreal produced records of: 16-11, 10-13, 13-12 with ERA's of (respecitvely): 3.42, 3.91, 3.24. Not to mention, he had significantly more IP than K's, AJ's at about a K per inning. You wouldn't take those numbers? Win-Loss record is a meaningless measure and out of a pitchers control. His ERA numbers were solid and his strikeout numbers were fine also. In 2003, he K'd 241 in 230 innings pitched. I'm not arguing that AJ is not a great pitcher with a ton of potential, but Vazquez is a real good option especially considering AJ's contract status.
December 12, 200421 yr Only way I would do this trade with the Yankees We get: Vasquez their catching prospect Dioner Navarro about $15 million They get: AJ Burnett Enc Stokes We get a solid starter and a guy who can start for us at catcher in 2006, and will also see plenty of playing time this season. The Yankees get exactly what they need to get the Johnson deal done in Burnett and Stokes. Oh yeah and Enc. 633162[/snapback] That makes no sense? Why hand over things that help the Yankees get Johnson essentially for Vazquez? I mean, I know the reasons to trade AJ, but why not make every effort to sign AJ long-term before we give up on him. I don't see how people think this is a fair trade, even if the contract is paid AND we make them take Encarnacion (which I don't get because he's only on a one year deal). Vazquez' three "good years" in Montreal produced records of: 16-11, 10-13, 13-12 with ERA's of (respecitvely): 3.42, 3.91, 3.24. Not to mention, he had significantly more IP than K's, AJ's at about a K per inning. I know the argument "he's going to walk at the end of the season, we have to deal him while we can still get return on him." And I also know that we have to deal him now because we can't deal him in season unless we're way out of it, because if we're competitve and we deal AJ Burnett at the deadline, that's a mess. I'm simply saying I hope we go about this methodically, step one should be to see how much AJ wants us to give him to stay; step two should be presenting him with a long term contract; step three (in the event the contract is not signed) should be to find a trade partner (I bet we get way more out of Baltimore than NY); step four should then be the trade. This is opening an old scab wide open, but if we're so hot after the former Loria Montreal Expos team, why the hell were we so passive on the best one of them all, Guerrero? Vazquez, I fear, may have been permanently damaged by New York, and I don't think there's any hope to get him to be anywhere near the level he was in Montreal for this season. Remember, Stottlemeyer has a reputation for messing up guys who come to New York from pitching oriented small market teams. 633180[/snapback] WHY? because to some AJ is the equivalent of Cliff Floyd can you take that risk of signing him long term with his past injuries? Personaly NO. I believe the organization doesn't want to go through this again next year(like this year with Pavano) Your getting a young pitcher in Vasquez(remember just because you can't pitch in NY doesn't mean you can't pitch in the ML) who the organization knows very well from there days in with the Expos. And if the other pitcher is Felix Rodriguez it just strengthen your bullpen that much more, plus you'll have corner the market on six- fingered pitchers :lol with Felix and double A. Also this will open the door to the signing LHP O.Perez (which I put right now over 50% :thumbup ) All in all you'll be getting guys who have promise and have accoplished something, rather than someone who doesn't want to be here and has accoplished little to nothing in his ML career. Is it a risk? YES because pitchers... most don't hit there peak until there 30's but this organization needs wins not promises. I'm all for it :thumbup go finish it Admin
December 12, 200421 yr I don't want F-Rod, we've addressed the bullpen and I think it'll be fine as it is. We've already spent too much money on it.
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