January 21, 200521 yr DAVISON, Mich. ? Oscar on the shelf or not, Michael Moore (search) is not getting much respect at his old high school. Despite his fame and many honors, the filmmaker has been rejected all four times that he has been nominated for Davison High School's Hall of Fame. "Would you want him as a role model? Would you want your son or daughter to be like him?" asked Don Hammond, a member of the Hall of Fame selection committee. "I haven't talked to anybody yet who's for him. The word to describe Michael Moore is embarrassing. He embarrasses everybody." Ryan Eashoo disagrees. The 1997 Davison High (search) graduate has spent 80 hours in the last two weeks and $600 of his own money trying to get Moore elected. "We've been blacklisted," Eashoo, 25, told the Detroit Free Press. "I'm a huge Michael Moore fan. He's a great producer, great filmmaker, always sticking up for minorities. He's kind of an underdog." So far, Eashoo has 300 signed nominations of Moore. His goal is 2,000 by Feb. 1. The committee meets Feb. 11 to choose its inductees. Moore's film "Fahrenheit 9/11" (search) attacked President Bush's rationale for the war in Iraq and accused him and his administration of fostering fear for political gain. Moore spent the weeks before the election traveling across the country to urge Americans to vote Bush out of office.
January 21, 200521 yr This reminds me of the Ryan Leaf thing. As if it should have been a hint to the Chargers that Leaf's HS never put up any award of his or made any mention of him in anyway once he went onto his Wazzou greatness.
January 21, 200521 yr Moore is scum. Hes exploited the same capitalist system he claims to hate for his own personal gain
January 21, 200521 yr Author Moore is scum. Hes exploited the same capitalist system he claims to hate for his own personal gain 661565[/snapback] haha yeah, did you see him on Leno about a week after the election?
January 22, 200521 yr Shouldnt some of you be clamoring about free speech? Dont like what he has to say and he gets blacklisted? Last time I checked, Moore didnt rape or kill anyone. He just criticized the President. Oh right, thats illegal. I guess the 1st amendment only works for those u like. Or maybe private actors arent held to it...kind of like message board patrons. :whistle
January 22, 200521 yr Shouldnt some of you be clamoring about free speech? Dont like what he has to say and he gets blacklisted? Last time I checked, Moore didnt rape or kill anyone. He just criticized the President. Oh right, thats illegal. I guess the 1st amendment only works for those u like. Or maybe private actors arent held to it...kind of like message board patrons. :whistle 662579[/snapback] hes free to criticize all he wants, and his high school has the right to reject him, so dont bring up anything about the 1st amendment
January 22, 200521 yr Shouldnt some of you be clamoring about free speech? Dont like what he has to say and he gets blacklisted? Last time I checked, Moore didnt rape or kill anyone. He just criticized the President. Oh right, thats illegal. I guess the 1st amendment only works for those u like. Or maybe private actors arent held to it...kind of like message board patrons.? :whistle 662579[/snapback] hes free to criticize all he wants, and his high school has the right to reject him, so dont bring up anything about the 1st amendment 662587[/snapback] Context is important here. Posters have been accused of violating tonyi's first amendment rights for being critical of his opinions.
January 22, 200521 yr Moore is scum. Hes exploited the same capitalist system he claims to hate for his own personal gain 661565[/snapback] When has more ever claimed to hate capitalism? Its a common misconception that liberals despise free markets. Moore, like many Americans, believes in the idea of the American dream and safety nets and making sure people arent being exploited while having a system of healthy competition and division of goods and services. Has Moore ever said he despises paying taxes or has he been more than willing to pay his share? Has Moore ever exploited people that work for him to make more money for himself? There are many liberals who are wealthy. Warren Buffet was very critical of Bush's tax cuts. Does that make him a anticapitalist hypocrite? Not all wealthy have to oppose taxes and think the workers are lazy bums you know. Contrary to what people like cubsfaninflorida believes, liberals appreciate free markets. But its Henry Ford's vision of American that we love. With success comes the idea of responsibility. Just because they understand that theyve had breaks in life and want to do their part, doesnt make them anti capitalist.
January 22, 200521 yr And Its Henry Ford's idea of success that I was arguing about in my discussion against Walmart. Henry Ford accomplished so much for this nation and is often forgotten all he truly did.
January 22, 200521 yr Moore is scum. Hes exploited the same capitalist system he claims to hate for his own personal gain 661565[/snapback] When has more ever claimed to hate capitalism? Its a common misconception that liberals despise free markets. Moore, like many Americans, believes in the idea of the American dream and safety nets and making sure people arent being exploited while having a system of healthy competition and division of goods and services. Has Moore ever said he despises paying taxes or has he been more than willing to pay his share? Has Moore ever exploited people that work for him to make more money for himself? There are many liberals who are wealthy. Warren Buffet was very critical of Bush's tax cuts. Does that make him a anticapitalist hypocrite? Not all wealthy have to oppose taxes and think the workers are lazy bums you know. Contrary to what people like cubsfaninflorida believes, liberals appreciate free markets. But its Henry Ford's vision of American that we love. With success comes the idea of responsibility. Just because they understand that theyve had breaks in life and want to do their part, doesnt make them anti capitalist. 662700[/snapback] When you forget about personal responsibility and you want constan safety nets to the point where everyone can fail as much as they want and it isnt a problem b/c the workers are paying for your safety net, it is no longer capitalism. Its socialism. And poeple who are socialist dont like capitalism.
January 22, 200521 yr Moore is scum. Hes exploited the same capitalist system he claims to hate for his own personal gain 661565[/snapback] When has more ever claimed to hate capitalism? Its a common misconception that liberals despise free markets. Moore, like many Americans, believes in the idea of the American dream and safety nets and making sure people arent being exploited while having a system of healthy competition and division of goods and services. Has Moore ever said he despises paying taxes or has he been more than willing to pay his share? Has Moore ever exploited people that work for him to make more money for himself? There are many liberals who are wealthy. Warren Buffet was very critical of Bush's tax cuts. Does that make him a anticapitalist hypocrite? Not all wealthy have to oppose taxes and think the workers are lazy bums you know. Contrary to what people like cubsfaninflorida believes, liberals appreciate free markets. But its Henry Ford's vision of American that we love. With success comes the idea of responsibility. Just because they understand that theyve had breaks in life and want to do their part, doesnt make them anti capitalist. 662700[/snapback] When you forget about personal responsibility and you want constan safety nets to the point where everyone can fail as much as they want and it isnt a problem b/c the workers are paying for your safety net, it is no longer capitalism. Its socialism. And poeple who are socialist dont like capitalism. 662787[/snapback] Liberals in this country dont advocate socialism and you know better than that. Its not black and white. If you wanna resist people like Grover Norquist and want to maintain the strength of social security, medicare, and medicaid and make sure people in this country can actually raise a family, you become socialist? Come on legacy. Thats follows the same line of logic as saying if you question US foreign policy, you are unpatriotic. How many conservatives recieved federal college assistance? I know of many. Does that make them hypocrites for wanting to minimize the size of federal government? Only if I label them with extremes. Outside of that, youre wrong for saying socialists are against making wealth for themselves. Im not a socialist, but it doesnt seem foolish that someone who advocates a socialist system might strive to make money within that system. That doesnt make them a hypocrite. By that logic, anyone who isnt absolutely opposed to taxes is a hypocrite for making wealth.
January 22, 200521 yr Moore is scum. Hes exploited the same capitalist system he claims to hate for his own personal gain 661565[/snapback] When has more ever claimed to hate capitalism? Its a common misconception that liberals despise free markets. Moore, like many Americans, believes in the idea of the American dream and safety nets and making sure people arent being exploited while having a system of healthy competition and division of goods and services. Has Moore ever said he despises paying taxes or has he been more than willing to pay his share? Has Moore ever exploited people that work for him to make more money for himself? There are many liberals who are wealthy. Warren Buffet was very critical of Bush's tax cuts. Does that make him a anticapitalist hypocrite? Not all wealthy have to oppose taxes and think the workers are lazy bums you know. Contrary to what people like cubsfaninflorida believes, liberals appreciate free markets. But its Henry Ford's vision of American that we love. With success comes the idea of responsibility. Just because they understand that theyve had breaks in life and want to do their part, doesnt make them anti capitalist. 662700[/snapback] When you forget about personal responsibility and you want constan safety nets to the point where everyone can fail as much as they want and it isnt a problem b/c the workers are paying for your safety net, it is no longer capitalism. Its socialism. And poeple who are socialist dont like capitalism. 662787[/snapback] Liberals in this country dont advocate socialism and you know better than that. Its not black and white. If you wanna resist people like Grover Norquist and want to maintain the strength of social security, medicare, and medicaid and make sure people in this country can actually raise a family, you become socialist? Come on legacy. Thats follows the same line of logic as saying if you question US foreign policy, you are unpatriotic. How many conservatives recieved federal college assistance? I know of many. Does that make them hypocrites for wanting to minimize the size of federal government? Only if I label them with extremes. Outside of that, youre wrong for saying socialists are against making wealth for themselves. Im not a socialist, but it doesnt seem foolish that someone who advocates a socialist system might strive to make money within that system. That doesnt make them a hypocrite. By that logic, anyone who isnt absolutely opposed to taxes is a hypocrite for making wealth. 662826[/snapback] Wanting to become wealthy and preaching socialism is an oxymoron, thats like sayign yo uwant to win a gold medal in 100 m hurdles but you want thme to tie your legs together. Either way iwasnt makign a blanket statement about liberals. I was referring solely to michael moore, who is as socialist as anyone in america will get
January 22, 200521 yr Liberals in this country dont advocate socialism and you know better than that. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and craps all over the lawn like a duck...it might be a duck. Where do US neo-liberals differ significantly in goals from for example the way Sweden is run? 662828[/snapback] Ah, hence the quote "neo-liberals". I don't particularly like some of the views of radical right-wingers either, but are they the majority of the party? I don't think so. Some of the reasons for such partisanship in politics & society in general is the refusal of each side to believe that there are actually reasonable-minded people on the other side that are NOT radicals. Michael Moore happens to be one, but the left doesn't have a monopoly on these kinds of people. I think some individuals on both sides create this radical persona of themselves just to get media attention. It's the easy and cheap way to get your point across. I mean I don't think Ann Coulter's particularly helpful either.
January 23, 200521 yr Moore is scum. Hes exploited the same capitalist system he claims to hate for his own personal gain 661565[/snapback] When has more ever claimed to hate capitalism? Its a common misconception that liberals despise free markets. Moore, like many Americans, believes in the idea of the American dream and safety nets and making sure people arent being exploited while having a system of healthy competition and division of goods and services. Has Moore ever said he despises paying taxes or has he been more than willing to pay his share? Has Moore ever exploited people that work for him to make more money for himself? There are many liberals who are wealthy. Warren Buffet was very critical of Bush's tax cuts. Does that make him a anticapitalist hypocrite? Not all wealthy have to oppose taxes and think the workers are lazy bums you know. Contrary to what people like cubsfaninflorida believes, liberals appreciate free markets. But its Henry Ford's vision of American that we love. With success comes the idea of responsibility. Just because they understand that theyve had breaks in life and want to do their part, doesnt make them anti capitalist. 662700[/snapback] When you forget about personal responsibility and you want constan safety nets to the point where everyone can fail as much as they want and it isnt a problem b/c the workers are paying for your safety net, it is no longer capitalism. Its socialism. And poeple who are socialist dont like capitalism. 662787[/snapback] Liberals in this country dont advocate socialism and you know better than that. Its not black and white. If you wanna resist people like Grover Norquist and want to maintain the strength of social security, medicare, and medicaid and make sure people in this country can actually raise a family, you become socialist? Come on legacy. Thats follows the same line of logic as saying if you question US foreign policy, you are unpatriotic. How many conservatives recieved federal college assistance? I know of many. Does that make them hypocrites for wanting to minimize the size of federal government? Only if I label them with extremes. Outside of that, youre wrong for saying socialists are against making wealth for themselves. Im not a socialist, but it doesnt seem foolish that someone who advocates a socialist system might strive to make money within that system. That doesnt make them a hypocrite. By that logic, anyone who isnt absolutely opposed to taxes is a hypocrite for making wealth. 662826[/snapback] Wanting to become wealthy and preaching socialism is an oxymoron, thats like sayign yo uwant to win a gold medal in 100 m hurdles but you want thme to tie your legs together. Either way iwasnt makign a blanket statement about liberals. I was referring solely to michael moore, who is as socialist as anyone in america will get 662921[/snapback] The intention of socialism is not to hinder people from doing something though that might be the effect. Ask any socialist person if they were given the question "would u be ok with people having extreme wealth if it was promised that no person would fall below a standard of living" then they would be fine with it. They wouldnt want to tie the legs by your analogy. Maybe some foolish people would have some status statement but as an ethos, it would be ok. That being said, the goal of socialism is to preserve a way of life which ends up regulating wealth. The ends justify the means to socialists. The means are not the ends. Thats why it isnt hypocritical for a socialist who wants the means to be part of society to attain the ends of his desired society to also have alterior ends within these means.
January 23, 200521 yr you don't think Ann Coulter believes what she says too? I don't see what's so shocking about the fact there are radical wingnuts out there. It's as expected as rain.
January 23, 200521 yr Author I can do no more than laugh at Moore. 663157[/snapback] And Moore is laughing all the way to the bank.
January 23, 200521 yr Moore is scum. Hes exploited the same capitalist system he claims to hate for his own personal gain 661565[/snapback] When has more ever claimed to hate capitalism? Its a common misconception that liberals despise free markets. Moore, like many Americans, believes in the idea of the American dream and safety nets and making sure people arent being exploited while having a system of healthy competition and division of goods and services. Has Moore ever said he despises paying taxes or has he been more than willing to pay his share? Has Moore ever exploited people that work for him to make more money for himself? There are many liberals who are wealthy. Warren Buffet was very critical of Bush's tax cuts. Does that make him a anticapitalist hypocrite? Not all wealthy have to oppose taxes and think the workers are lazy bums you know. Contrary to what people like cubsfaninflorida believes, liberals appreciate free markets. But its Henry Ford's vision of American that we love. With success comes the idea of responsibility. Just because they understand that theyve had breaks in life and want to do their part, doesnt make them anti capitalist. 662700[/snapback] When you forget about personal responsibility and you want constan safety nets to the point where everyone can fail as much as they want and it isnt a problem b/c the workers are paying for your safety net, it is no longer capitalism. Its socialism. And poeple who are socialist dont like capitalism. 662787[/snapback] Liberals in this country dont advocate socialism and you know better than that. Its not black and white. If you wanna resist people like Grover Norquist and want to maintain the strength of social security, medicare, and medicaid and make sure people in this country can actually raise a family, you become socialist? Come on legacy. Thats follows the same line of logic as saying if you question US foreign policy, you are unpatriotic. How many conservatives recieved federal college assistance? I know of many. Does that make them hypocrites for wanting to minimize the size of federal government? Only if I label them with extremes. Outside of that, youre wrong for saying socialists are against making wealth for themselves. Im not a socialist, but it doesnt seem foolish that someone who advocates a socialist system might strive to make money within that system. That doesnt make them a hypocrite. By that logic, anyone who isnt absolutely opposed to taxes is a hypocrite for making wealth. 662826[/snapback] Wanting to become wealthy and preaching socialism is an oxymoron, thats like sayign yo uwant to win a gold medal in 100 m hurdles but you want thme to tie your legs together. Either way iwasnt makign a blanket statement about liberals. I was referring solely to michael moore, who is as socialist as anyone in america will get 662921[/snapback] The intention of socialism is not to hinder people from doing something though that might be the effect. Ask any socialist person if they were given the question "would u be ok with people having extreme wealth if it was promised that no person would fall below a standard of living" then they would be fine with it. They wouldnt want to tie the legs by your analogy. Maybe some foolish people would have some status statement but as an ethos, it would be ok. That being said, the goal of socialism is to preserve a way of life which ends up regulating wealth. The ends justify the means to socialists. The means are not the ends. Thats why it isnt hypocritical for a socialist who wants the means to be part of society to attain the ends of his desired society to also have alterior ends within these means. 663040[/snapback] I understand what you're saying. For a socialist ideologue wealth would be ok if everyone had a high standar dof living etc. But in practice that is impossible.
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