Posted April 12, 200520 yr I am calling for the end of the Jack McKeon era in Florida, am I crazy? Sure enough some people will think I am. Others will just see me as a fan that is overreacting because our team is now 3-4...how dreadful, right? I went to bed thinking Bill Robinson had to go since he can watch the games and add nothing from home just the same way he watches the game and adds nothing from the dugout. But I woke up with a different opinion. Bill Robinson is not the problem by himself. Robinson is like a tornado during a hurricane. The hurricane itself must end for the tornados to end. Hurricane Jack will forever be a part of Marlins history but that is where he needs to be I am afraid, in our history. We were all shocked when Wayne Rosenthal was fired. We were all shocked when we heard there was a complete lack of respect for him among the pitchers. How does this feeling get born, grow and thrive in a clubhouse? It was all Rosenthal's fault? That's hard to imagine especially when we may hear the same thing the day Robinson is fired. Why do our players go into pro-longed slumps like no other team? Why can't players such as Mike Lowell, Miguel Cabrera, Juan Encarnacion, Luis Castillo and Alex Gonzalez take the ball the other way the way Juan Pierre, Carlos Delgado and Jeff Conine do and the way Pudge did during the 2003 season? Why can't this team sacrafice a runner? Why can't they move runners along with smart outs like hitting behind runners? Is Robinson to blame for all of this? Is there a complete lack of respect among the players for him too? What about Miguel's fielding and his base running? Both are extremely below average. Age wise he belongs in the minors, I understand this. But the off-season and spring time should have been an opportunity to improve his game and TEACH but other than Perry Hill I don't know if we have a teacher for our non-pitchers. Jack is fortunate this teams pitching is what it is - very talented. And this year so far he has an A+ bullpen. I agree that last season his pen was horrible but how often did we lose a game because he burned through his pitchers early on and we were left with Bump or Wayne to pitch from the 10th inning on? Jack is consistently out-managed and was done so again versus the Braves Bobby Cox in Games 2&3 this season. This has little to do wth wins and losses. Wins and losses just magnifies the problem. This is about poor execution. Lack of game preperation. Non-existent forward movement where each player is weak and were we have holes as a team. This is about bad baseball. This is about poor leadership. Imagine the Twins' Ron Gardenhire as manager of the Marlins. I'd love to draw the fundemental-driven Tom Kelly out of retirement. Maybe Bucky Dent wants to spend more time in South Florida?
April 12, 200520 yr I am calling for the end of the Jack McKeon era in Florida, am I crazy? Sure enough some people will think I am. Others will just see me as a fan that is overreacting because our team is now 3-4...how dreadful, right? I went to bed thinking Bill Robinson had to go since he can watch the games and add nothing from home just the same way he watches the game and adds nothing from the dugout. But I woke up with a different opinion. Bill Robinson is not the problem by himself. Robinson is like a tornado during a hurricane. The hurricane itself must end for the tornados to end. Hurricane Jack will forever be a part of Marlins history but that is where he needs to be I am afraid, in our history. We were all shocked when Wayne Rosenthal was fired. We were all shocked when we heard there was a complete lack of respect for him among the pitchers. How does this feeling get born, grow and thrive in a clubhouse? It was all Rosenthal's fault? That's hard to imagine especially when we may hear the same thing the day Robinson is fired. Why do our players go into pro-longed slumps like no other team? Why can't players such as Mike Lowell, Miguel Cabrera, Juan Encarnacion, Luis Castillo and Alex Gonzalez take the ball the other way the way Juan Pierre, Carlos Delgado and Jeff Conine do and the way Pudge did during the 2003 season? Why can't this team sacrafice a runner? Why can't they move runners along with smart outs like hitting behind runners? Is Robinson to blame for all of this? Is there a complete lack of respect among the players for him too? What about Miguel's fielding and his base running? Both are extremely below average. Age wise he belongs in the minors, I understand this. But the off-season and spring time should have been an opportunity to improve his game and TEACH but other than Perry Hill I don't know if we have a teacher for our non-pitchers. Jack is fortunate this teams pitching is what it is - very talented. And this year so far he has an A+ bullpen. I agree that last season his pen was horrible but how often did we lose a game because he burned through his pitchers early on and we were left with Bump or Wayne to pitch from the 10th inning on? Jack is consistently out-managed and was done so again versus the Braves Bobby Cox in Games 2&3 this season. This has little to do wth wins and losses. Wins and losses just magnifies the problem. This is about poor execution. Lack of game preperation. Non-existent forward movement where each player is weak and were we have holes as a team. This is about bad baseball. This is about poor leadership. Imagine the Twins' Ron Gardenhire as manager of the Marlins. I'd love to draw the fundemental-driven Tom Kelly out of retirement. Maybe Bucky Dent wants to spend more time in South Florida? 739160[/snapback] While the press likes to talk about how wonderful Jack is, Jack's history is that he has one or two great years as a manager and then it's downhill. Only time will tell this year. It's early yet but I think they do need to hire a new hitting coach.
April 12, 200520 yr I will take what ever it takes to get this team to show some consistency but I dont know if firing Jack is what needs to be done.
April 12, 200520 yr Why fire McKeon? It's not like there are more qualified candidates available, and if we fire him now after only 7 games, it just shows our guys "if you screw up once, you're out of here." Bad idea.
April 12, 200520 yr Fans would hate it even if it were the right move there is no way it can happen. Jack would have to leave on his own.
April 12, 200520 yr I just read this "I am calling for the end of the Jack McKeon era in Florida, am I crazy?" One week of baseball and we are already pushing the panic buttom?
April 12, 200520 yr haha. a fire jack thread. the season has officially begun. 739190[/snapback] Exactly. You're fired!
April 12, 200520 yr 7 games into a season and you decide to fire the same guy that 2 years ago brought this team out and shocked the world by winning the World Series, and you want his head? I think we'd owe it to Jack to get more time to gel this team together.
April 12, 200520 yr Two things need to happen. 1) Miggy needs to stop going after bad pitches... he should just take walks in front of Delgado. 2) Lowell should go with the pitches instead of trying to jack one every time he goes up there.
April 12, 200520 yr It is true that Jack seems to wear out his welcome wherever he goes after a few years but it's premature to suggest it's time for him to move on seven games into the season. The hole in the lineup created by Castillo's offensive absence and Lowell's inability hit with any authority leaves the manager in a difficult situation that he is going to have to work through. How he does that may cement his future. I have to wonder if there's something wrong with Luis (physically) that is hindering his batting although I admit it's a guess on my part. I keep thinking he ought to (either on his own or be directed to do so) start hitting exclusively from the right side because frankly he's no longer a threat to bunt (which is why he bats fom the left side to get that extra step up the line) or be a significant stolen base stealer, so hitting from the right side "might" get him going again. Anyone who wants to disagree is welcome to do so. But the fact remains a productive Castillo moving JP along and setting up better situations for the 3-4-5 hitters is crucial to the success of this team. I love Luis Castillo and it pains me to see him in this funk. Jack is bearing the brunt of the criticism for what is happening and ultimately it's his head on the chopping block. At the same time I do feel Jack has been a bit heavy-handed in the way he's dealing with Luis but we're not in the clubhouse and none of us can really speak to the dynamics there. Time will tell. Jack's other problem is Lowell's unproductive hitting so far. He's providing no protection to Delgado or LoDuca and until he starts getting on base Jack's hands are tied. Were it me I'd either move LoDuca up to the two hole with Luis hitting sixth or absent that drop Lowell down a spot and LoDuca up, or in the alternative, batting Lowell third and Cabrera fifth, but each suggestion has a downside. Let's see what Jack does (and more importantly, what the players do) by the end of the month before we start calling for his exit or radical changes in personnel.
April 12, 200520 yr It is true that Jack seems to wear out his welcome wherever he goes after a few years but it's premature to suggest it's time for him to move on seven games into the season. The hole in the lineup created by Castillo's offensive absence and Lowell's inability hit with any authority leaves the manager in a difficult situation that he is going to have to work through. How he does that may cement his future. I have to wonder if there's something wrong with Luis (physically) that is hindering his batting although I admit it's a guess on my part. I keep thinking he ought to (either on his own or be directed to do so) start hitting exclusively from the right side because frankly he's no longer a threat to bunt (which is why he bats fom the left side to get that extra step up the line) or be a significant stolen base stealer, so hitting from the right side "might" get him going again. Anyone who wants to disagree is welcome to do so. But the fact remains a productive Castillo moving JP along and setting up better situations for the 3-4-5 hitters is crucial to the success of this team. I love Luis Castillo and it pains me to see him in this funk. Jack is bearing the brunt of the criticism for what is happening and ultimately it's his head on the chopping block. At the same time I do feel Jack has been a bit heavy-handed in the way he's dealing with Luis but we're not in the clubhouse and none of us can really speak to the dynamics there. Time will tell. Jack's other problem is Lowell's unproductive hitting so far. He's providing no protection to Delgado or LoDuca and until he starts getting on base Jack's hands are tied. Were it me I'd either move LoDuca up to the two hole with Luis hitting sixth or absent that drop Lowell down a spot and LoDuca up, or in the alternative, batting Lowell third and Cabrera fifth, but each suggestion has a downside. Let's see what Jack does (and more importantly, what the players do) by the end of the month before we start calling for his exit or radical changes in personnel. 739238[/snapback] Pretty good summary of the situation.
April 12, 200520 yr I think we need to start putting the runners in motion... I know Hutton has been saying this for a few games now the Braves do this alot and it usually works out for the better
April 12, 200520 yr True, there is no reason why at the very least Enc, JP and Castillo aren't active on the bases.
April 12, 200520 yr True, there is no reason why at the very least Enc, JP and Castillo aren't active on the bases. 739246[/snapback] I dont necessarily mean them either
April 12, 200520 yr It is true that Jack seems to wear out his welcome wherever he goes after a few years but it's premature to suggest it's time for him to move on seven games into the season. The hole in the lineup created by Castillo's offensive absence and Lowell's inability hit with any authority leaves the manager in a difficult situation that he is going to have to work through. How he does that may cement his future. I have to wonder if there's something wrong with Luis (physically) that is hindering his batting although I admit it's a guess on my part. I keep thinking he ought to (either on his own or be directed to do so) start hitting exclusively from the right side because frankly he's no longer a threat to bunt (which is why he bats fom the left side to get that extra step up the line) or be a significant stolen base stealer, so hitting from the right side "might" get him going again. Anyone who wants to disagree is welcome to do so. But the fact remains a productive Castillo moving JP along and setting up better situations for the 3-4-5 hitters is crucial to the success of this team. I love Luis Castillo and it pains me to see him in this funk. Jack is bearing the brunt of the criticism for what is happening and ultimately it's his head on the chopping block. At the same time I do feel Jack has been a bit heavy-handed in the way he's dealing with Luis but we're not in the clubhouse and none of us can really speak to the dynamics there. Time will tell. Jack's other problem is Lowell's unproductive hitting so far. He's providing no protection to Delgado or LoDuca and until he starts getting on base Jack's hands are tied. Were it me I'd either move LoDuca up to the two hole with Luis hitting sixth or absent that drop Lowell down a spot and LoDuca up, or in the alternative, batting Lowell third and Cabrera fifth, but each suggestion has a downside. Let's see what Jack does (and more importantly, what the players do) by the end of the month before we start calling for his exit or radical changes in personnel. There's a great possibility he might be hurt, just look at how he has been playing defense. I can't speak to Sunday because I wasn't there and Saturday it wasn't as prominent, but yesterday Luiy spent the entire day perched in double play depth no matter what the count or situation. I was thinking at the beginning of the game that this was ok because Leiter was pounding hitters inside like he always does, but it remained when Al exited the game, even with two powerful lefties like the Phillies have in the game. Their hole to hit was huge, they could have easily put balls through there had they wanted to (and I believe Abreu did once). Honestly, we saw the Phillies do yesterday what we haven't done since 2003 - scratch out runs. Burrell hit a massive homer in the first, yes. However later on the Phillies had a single stretched into a double by alert base running, he advanced to third on a fly, and then scored on a sac fly. We just don't bunt or make productive outs anymore, and we haven't since October of 2003. The lineup I'd go with today, assuming no one is benched because no one will be, would be this: CF Pierre 2B Easley C Lo Duca 1B Delgado RF Encarnacion LF Cabrera SS Gonzalez 3B Lowell P Burnett That's not the lineup I personally would use, but if Jack doesn't bench anyone that's what I would like to see. Pack the four best hitters right now in five slots, with the fifth occupied by a shakeup bench player. If it was me I'd trot that same lineup out there but with Conine playing LF and batting 6th.
April 12, 200520 yr I would rather start the season slow and end the season with a bang thean to start of awesome and end like crap.
April 12, 200520 yr I think we will get better. Thanks for that great analysis. Now Jackie with weather.
April 12, 200520 yr The lineup I'd go with today, assuming no one is benched because no one will be, would be this: CF Pierre 2B Easley C Lo Duca 1B Delgado RF Encarnacion LF Cabrera SS Gonzalez 3B Lowell P Burnett That's not the lineup I personally would use, but if Jack doesn't bench anyone that's what I would like to see. Pack the four best hitters right now in five slots, with the fifth occupied by a shakeup bench player. If it was me I'd trot that same lineup out there but with Conine playing LF and batting 6th. 739249[/snapback] Why isnt Alex in the top 5 if you are going by the best 4 hitters?
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