Skip to content
View in the app

A better way to browse. Learn more.

MarlinsBaseball.com

A full-screen app on your home screen with push notifications, badges and more.

To install this app on iOS and iPadOS
  1. Tap the Share icon in Safari
  2. Scroll the menu and tap Add to Home Screen.
  3. Tap Add in the top-right corner.
To install this app on Android
  1. Tap the 3-dot menu (⋮) in the top-right corner of the browser.
  2. Tap Add to Home screen or Install app.
  3. Confirm by tapping Install.

Jack's use of the bench

Featured Replies

This is something that has been bugging me ever since McKeon has taken over as our manager in 2003. The way McKeon manages the bench has been simply terrible in my opinion and I'll show you why.

 

Matt Treanor- He's backing up a guy who is known maybe more than any other in the league for his 2nd half slumps. So you would think that as a manager you would try to keep your starting catcher fresh for the team's playoff push in August and September. Well, Mckeon wasn't going to let that happen not even when his backup catcher started the season 5-10. No not only did he not give him more starts after that McKeon responded to Treanor's good play by not giving him an at-bat for another 2 weeks, and his average has slowly slipped since. As the season grinds on you would think that Treanor's playing time would increase due to the grind of the season on Lo Duca, but quite the contrary, Treanor has a total of 8 at-bats in the month of June.

 

Joe Dillon- You would think a guy whose put up some of the best numbers in the minor leagues would get some playing time when the guy who is starting at his position is barely hitting over .200 and has only 2 home runs 2 months into the season. Well, McKeon obviously was not aware that Joe was brought up because Dillon was not given 1 start in his month in the bigs. This despite the fact that Dillon started his stay by going 3-7 including a game winning home run.

 

Chris Aguila- After impressing people at the end of last season and having a very strong spring, most people expected Aguila to play a bigger role this season than in the last season. Obviously McKeon wasn't paying attention, because despite the fact that his starting center fielder had an OBP under .300 Aguila got a grand total of 16 at-bats in his 2 months with the team. This despite the fact that Aguila is a defensive upgrade to Pierre, and probably the best defensive outfielder in our organization.

 

Damion Easley- While Easley certainly has seen much more playing time than the others, but he has been misused. On June 3rd Easley was tied for 3rd on the team in home runs, as a guy coming off the bench. On a team where it's biggest offensive weakness is the lack of home runs it produces you would expect a guy that can play so many positions and with that kind of power would have no problem getting playing time, but instead he's only been given 14 at-bats in 21 games.

 

The same now seems to be happening to Josh Willingham.

 

McKeon has been saying that he's done all he could to get the offense going by switching the lineup around, well that's bull crap, switching around the lineup does practically nothing. Players may be better utilized in different slots in the lineup, but they're not gonna become better hitters just because you moved them up or down in the lineup.

 

 

Look over to the other dugout tonight to find a manager who knows how to utilize his bench. Cox uses his bench better than any other manager in the big leagues. Rarely do you see the braves with the same lineup 2 games in a row. Every year the braves have a young kid coming up that contributes and it's because Cox gives them a chance. No other team has gotten as much from role players like Eddie Perez and Julio Franco. I think McKeon needs to take a page from Cox's book and give these bench guys a chance once in a while.

Very true. Jack sticks by his guys to a fault. However it's a slight improvement over last year when he used the lesser pieces of the bench (Harris, Mordecai) way too frequently. So in 5 years I predict his bench management will be close to major league average.

Treanor, Dillon, Aguilar or for that matter, Willingham are not on same page as Franco or Perez who are veterans. Easley is utlilized similarly as Franco and Perez.

 

The Marlins are not today in the same situation as the Braves. Like with the Marlins in 2003, the Braves have to play rookies because of injuries.

  • Author

Treanor, Dillon, Aguilar or for that matter, Willingham are not on same page as Franco or Perez who are veterans. Easley is utlilized similarly as Franco and Perez.

829808[/snapback]

Just because those guys don't have the experience does mean their lesser players.

 

Cox continually gets good performances from guys like Nick Green, and Pete Orr this year.

 

The Marlins are not today in the same situation as the Braves. Like with the Marlins in 2003, the Braves have to play rookies because of injuries.

 

What about Charles Thomas last year?

Marcus Giles in 2001?

Guys like Javy Lopez and Ryan Klesko in the mid-90s who took over for Veterans mid season?

The last year Valentine managed the Mets, they hardly ever had the same lineup twice, and that didn't work out so well for them.

 

McKeon is from a time when pitchers threw 10 innings and 160 pitches on 3 days rest. He's the same way with the starters- he's not going to "coddle" them by giving them 2 days off per week. Whether that's a good thing or not is debatable, but I think his use of the bench has to do with where he's come from.

  • Author

He's the same way with the starters- he's not going to "coddle" them by giving them 2 days off per week.

829988[/snapback]

What I'm saying though, is that he is coddling them by not taking playing time away from them when they aren't performing. There are 25 players on this team, and we could be counting on these bench players at some point in this season, and if they are never playing, there not going to perform when we need them to.

The last year Valentine managed the Mets, they hardly ever had the same lineup twice, and that didn't work out so well for them.

 

McKeon is from a time when pitchers threw 10 innings and 160 pitches on 3 days rest. He's the same way with the starters- he's not going to "coddle" them by giving them 2 days off per week. Whether that's a good thing or not is debatable, but I think his use of the bench has to do with where he's come from.

829988[/snapback]

 

It's not like Bobby Cox is 12 years old.

I am not sure that using your bench should be equated with coddling.

The last year Valentine managed the Mets, they hardly ever had the same lineup twice, and that didn't work out so well for them.

 

McKeon is from a time when pitchers threw 10 innings and 160 pitches on 3 days rest.? He's the same way with the starters- he's not going to "coddle" them by giving them 2 days off per week.? Whether that's a good thing or not is debatable, but I think his use of the bench has to do with where he's come from.

829988[/snapback]

 

It's not like Bobby Cox is 12 years old.

I am not sure that using your bench should be equated with coddling.

830026[/snapback]

I don't necessarily think it is either- I feel that's the way he thinks of it- that's why I put it in quotation marks.

Matt Treanor- He's backing up a guy who is known maybe more than any other in the league for his 2nd half slumps. So you would think that as a manager you would try to keep your starting catcher fresh for the team's playoff push in August and September. Well, Mckeon wasn't going to let that happen not even when his backup catcher started the season 5-10. No not only did he not give him more starts after that McKeon responded to Treanor's good play by not giving him an at-bat for another 2 weeks, and his average has slowly slipped since. As the season grinds on you would think that Treanor's playing time would increase due to the grind of the season on Lo Duca, but quite the contrary, Treanor has a total of 8 at-bats in the month of June.

...

Look over to the other dugout tonight to find a manager who knows how to utilize his bench. Cox uses his bench better than any other manager in the big leagues. Rarely do you see the braves with the same lineup 2 games in a row. Every year the braves have a young kid coming up that contributes and it's because Cox gives them a chance. No other team has gotten as much from role players like Eddie Perez and Julio Franco. I think McKeon needs to take a page from Cox's book and give these bench guys a chance once in a while.

829798[/snapback]

 

Why's Lo Duca considered to be the guy who has the worst second-half slumps? It seems Lowell's always just as awful in the second half as he's been this whole season, and Castillo's had several severe slides in the second half too...

 

I agree with the rest of what you said though, and especially about Bobby Cox. Nick Green's the starting 2B at Tampa Bay now and doing a decent enough job to bump their All-Star, Jorge Cantu, over to third, and Pete Orr's been given quite a bit of time to show off his talent this season too.

Lowell often hits for average and Luiy gets on base in the second half.Their average second-half dropoffs over their careers:

 

Lowell -.009 avg -.012 obp -.071 slg

Castillo -.021 avg -.024 obp -.036 slg

LoDuca -.057 avg -.056 obp -.087 slg

I had honest to God forgotten that Damian Easley was on this team.

LoDuca's slumps have a lot to do with playing catcher. Most catchers drop off offensively as the season goes on due to the minor injuries and fatigue that accumulate. All the more reason Treanor should have been used more in the first half. Fran, well said. I'm in complete agreement.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...
Background Picker
Customize Layout

Account

Navigation

Search

Search

Configure browser push notifications

Chrome (Android)
  1. Tap the lock icon next to the address bar.
  2. Tap Permissions → Notifications.
  3. Adjust your preference.
Chrome (Desktop)
  1. Click the padlock icon in the address bar.
  2. Select Site settings.
  3. Find Notifications and adjust your preference.