DogFish

IMO, rferry makes some great points. Read closely.....there is a lot said in his post that are of extreme importance to any "boss" with the foremost being respect.

In the 5 years of Loria's reign of terror, we'll have gone through 3 managers (Torborg, McKeon, Girardi). All of whom were forced out. Beinfest was the one that had the biggest problems with Torborg and McKeon, not Loria. Not true at all. Did they always agree, NO, but the bottom line was it was time for them to go on to other things. In McKeon's case, I assume that he still is in contact with Loria, Beinfest on a regular basis.

The outcome of games would be the same!

Passion has been right on from the beginning. These guys have maintained their innocence from the beginning just no one believed them.

I agree. If anyone could scan the pics, it would be great. I am sure Admin, the mod, has an address. If not, he would know where to get it. dont forget the pre-addressed evelope.

I do think that Girardi was deceived. He expected to be taking over a winning ball club from Jack McKeon, but as it turns out, Jack left at the right time. I really also believe that the decision to destroy the team happened rather quickly, and has to have been a result of a power change in the Marlins' FO. It doesn't make any sense that Loria would change his strategy so suddenly if he was still in charge. Jack left one year too late, but IMO, Giradi was not deceived. Everyone knew, including many on this forum, that Lowell would try to be packaged together. Whether it was Burnette/Lowell during the summer or ?/Lowell in the off-season, it was going to have to be proven pitcher to force someone to take Lowell's contract. Just looking at this team, we all had a feeling that Lowell gone Enc gone Conine gone Jones gone AGon gone Mota gone and combine with lack of "D" at 1B, I was not surprised at this move either. This team is just going through a turnover like the Indians did a few years ago. This move will pay off for Loria

I agree. Loria trusted Jack too long. In 2004 and 2005, the Marlins had the talent to win the NL East, but underacheived significantly. We can also be thankful to Bill Robinson. To that point, as Jack had more influence on the coaching staff around him, the more lackadaisical team play became. Clubhouse energy was on the constant decline throughout 2004 and 2005. Jack didn't have the foresight to surround himself with youthful, energetic men that could balance his old and experienced ways. and I bet he tried but there were a lot of factors involved (money being just one of them). You really think he didnt want a Ozzie-like personality (Latin and energetic)?

There is a person behind all of those bunts and bad bullpen management! (lol)

Did some of his moves not work? OK 7 games Did some of his moves work? Ok lets say 3- 5 (-2) Sounds like your mom raised a Catholic "jackass" as well (Jack1)

Hey guys. It does not matter anymore. There is backstabbing everywhere. McKeon always seemed to have faith in both of them even though they struggled mightily (even to a fault as TSwift said about Beckett). These were the guys he had faith in. If they were the unnamed sources, then they should be ashamed. One of his faults was that he did trust the guys who were part of the 2003 with the notion that they knew how to win. This is a profession. People like the person but not always everything they do. Time will tell though. Younger blood with the coaching staff could help or could adversely affect the performance of some. I think David Hydes article says it the best...there are a lot more problems in the clubhouse with respect of the game than most people can imagine.

PB, They tried but were unsuccessful. They wanted an experienced, reputable Latino bench coach (Cookie Rojas). FYI, Hill, Robinson and Cox were all holdovers and not McKeon coaches.

Collectively as a team, over-rated Certain individuals - underperformed Overall though not sure expectations of 2004 were as great as 2005. We lost some talent in from 2003 team that could not replace.

he supposedly bench Enc before todays game for showing up late...

Today is the day. It is over! His days as Marlins manager are over but dont think for a minute, he will surface somewhere else on an interim basis...maybe even as early as next year.

Well so far, he fits in quite well.

If? but will not be Carter.

what does his brother know that we dont?

Wrong Again, Dogfish, why back out know? I clearly remember (I doubt that I'm wrong) that our first dealings started with you referring to me as an idiot and you pretending to be a teacher too after I responded.

ferry, MYOB but PH states we dont play small ball at all. I thought we did too much. as for your other comments, SOS.

PH....here is an article from MLB. Just curious if you listen to the games at all. McKeon on sacrificing: Do the Marlins sacrifice bunt too often? It's a topic that has been debated regularly on South Florida talk radio stations. Critics contend each out is too precious, and therefore, the Marlins are giving up outs to sacrifice. In the Major Leagues, the Marlins' 81 sacrifice hits are the fourth highest. Only the Nationals (91), Giants (89) and Rockies (86) have more sacrifices. Following are the Astros (79), Cardinals (77), Braves (73) and Padres (72). Three of those four teams have already qualified for the playoffs, while the Astros have the inside track to win the Wild Card race. McKeon believes in advancing runners, and bunting is part of that strategy. "I would say that three-quarters of the times, these guys bunt on their own," McKeon said. "They know how to play the game. You try to get them to hit to right field, or if you can't do that, get the guy over." Many critics don't have a problem with bunting in a close game in the later innings, but they don't like bunting in the first inning, especially if the leadoff batter is on second with no outs. McKeon contends, had the Marlins been more consistent in driving in runs, he would have bunted less. McKeon was asked what he would do if he had the Yankees' lineup. "You wouldn't bunt," McKeon said. "You think I'm going to bunt if I had the Red Sox's lineup? Heck no. The Yankees' lineup? Maybe with [Robinson] Cano late in the game." Swinging away is no guarantee that you will have a big inning, either. A risk of not bunting is hitting into a double play. Florida has grounded into 141 double plays, the sixth-highest total of any team in the Major Leagues. Minnesota (153), Oakland (148), Baltimore (145), San Francisco (144) and Atlanta (142) make up the top five.

PH, Mr. DogFish does not call people idiots. Although I have my own opinion, that was another poster who said that. and please save the comments about limited knowledge and experience. I'd be glad to share CVs but I realize it is against the rules of the school district (LOL)

c. I am glad you are happy being a HS coach. If that is the best you can do in your life, be the best. d. We were talking about team dictating style of play. Francona in his philly days was not a "wait for a 3R HR. He played NL baseball. RedSox you can wait for the 3R HR. If you knew the game and paid attention, you would realize this. e. Was Delgado the slugger he wanted? Do you really know that? Would we have been better off ($-wise) with a LH hitting OF and additional BP help. I dont think you know what you are talking about! f. Where is speed? Pierre then it drops close to a snails pace. Be careful about what you tell people you know because there is always someone out there that knows a little more about the game.

Obviously one who admires his own post a. Mention Spooney but refer to Torberg (wasnt even around!) b. A considerable amt of HS coaches do it for money, the others do it for their ego (?) c. Older than you and have considerable more Professional BB experience than you ever will have. (You must enjoy the fantasy league since you mention in all your post). Do you win rings in that as well? d. the team does not dictate the style of play. Maybe not in HS but in the Pros. Do the powerful RedSox bunt often? NO e. Does McKeon pick the players and who to bring up? NO f. Marlins 2005 - No speed, No power, singles/double hitters at best 2 hits per inning with 2 out and no runs.... but we are in agreement, time for the Marlins to move on, go young and build for the future.

Thing is, we really only know about the big problem with A.J.. That little thing Cabrera is a non-issue. People are making that bigger that it really is. He was late to the park and paid the price... end of story.. Now, unless I've missed a whole lot, what other clubhouse tension is there beyond Burnett? Now that he's gone, we may have some more optimism in the clubhouse. From what Beckett, Todd Jones, Lenny Harris, and other said, they seemed to think A.J was wrong. You forget June? Operation ShutyourmouthandI'llplayyou? who called this meeting..again. go back and check your facts Operation Shutyourmouthand I'llplayyou? Beinfest and Loria meeting due to McKeons benching of Lowell, Pierre and Motas mouth. Funny that Lowell played rest of year and lineup stayed same. It was not that way until that meeting. All I know is some players were popping off. Some members of the team were arguing. A meeting was callled. Some of the players that were bitching got more playing time than their present abilities or attitudes called for. Yep and with those comments, now you can reason why guys like Lowell, Pierre, Enc stayed in the lineup. Right or wrong but hands tied none-the-less