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Buster Olney: Girardi didn't know the team was getting gutted


Lane1974

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? A Miami city official accuses the Marlins president of lying. Incidentally, I'm hearing from multiple sources that Joe Girardi was not told about the forthcoming fire sale in any detail, and that in fact, he was told that the team intended to try to build and win in 2006. Girardi has come out and publicly vetted the moves, but others say he really had no choice. "He made his decision, and he's stuck with it," said one person who knows the former Yankee catcher.

I kind of find this hard to believe. No way would he stand for it, if he got totally bamboozled. "He made his decision and he's stuck with it?"... I believe the Marlins would release him of his contract if they changed the core of the team, and no one would blame him or put a red flag on him if that were to happen.

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=olney_buster

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The only public comments from Girardi have been positive of the changes. Even before the trades, he only mentioned one player that has since been traded, and that player was traded to get rid of Mike Lowell.

 

Chalk this up to the haters, who listen to know but the little voices in their heads.

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I think the most telling comment is that when he came aboard, he said that he wanted to win with us instead of overseeing a rebuilding in Tampa.

 

Girardi doesn't have the clout to bitch his way out of his contract, but there is no doubt in my mind that he was blindsided by the flurry of activity over Thanksgiving.

 

I'm going to refrain from saying he was "lied to" since I doubt he received any guarantees, but I do think he was deceived.

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I think the most telling comment is that when he came aboard, he said that he wanted to win with us instead of overseeing a rebuilding in Tampa.

 

Girardi doesn't have the clout to bitch his way out of his contract, but there is no doubt in my mind that he was blindsided by the flurry of activity over Thanksgiving.

 

I'm going to refrain from saying he was "lied to" since I doubt he received any guarantees, but I do think he was deceived.

 

I have to agree with you on this one.

 

I even think Loria was willing to use special money again, but I think something happend within the Loria/Samson family.

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Wishful thinking from negative minds

 

 

How so? The quotes are there from Girardi in multiple ways. From his initial "I'd rather win right away than rebuild" comment (and, for the record, I think the DRays' 5 year plan is much more sound than ours), to his naming "Beckett, Willis and Cabrera" as his franchise corner-stones. I'm not going to say that he expected us to go plug every hole via free agency, but I do think he expected us to put a team out there that, at worst, was a .500 team, not the other way around.

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This team is a .500 ball club. Whan asked on this topic, Girardi denied ever making the statement and claimed to believe the opposite.

 

Who even knows how old Olney's source is? Who even knows who he is? And if he's even spoken with Girardi? Who knows if he has had an contact with Girardi? Or speculating his opinion of what Girardi might feel? Or is taking a shot at the Marlins or their management?

 

The rare times Olney or some other baseball writer report a truthful rumor from one of these unnamed baseball sources does not prove the legitimacy of all or any of them.

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I think the most telling comment is that when he came aboard, he said that he wanted to win with us instead of overseeing a rebuilding in Tampa.

 

Girardi doesn't have the clout to bitch his way out of his contract, but there is no doubt in my mind that he was blindsided by the flurry of activity over Thanksgiving.

 

I'm going to refrain from saying he was "lied to" since I doubt he received any guarantees, but I do think he was deceived.

 

I have to agree. I also think it may simply just not be his personality to try to back out of his contract. His comments clearly implied he expected to be managing a competitive team.

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Well, Olney is probably the most respectable New York baseball writer, his sources with the Yankees are good, and Girardi is a beloved former Yankee. I don't think attacking his sources is realistic here. Heck, Girardi's spoken with the NY papers more since his hiring than the South Florida papers...

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Look, it's just inconceivable that the front office and Girardi didn't at least generally discuss the type of team that the Marlins would likely be fielding next season.

 

If Girardi did his homework he would probably have known there were going to be significant changes anyway, but I feel comfortable saying that Loria is not one to hire a guy who was wanted by at least a couple of other organizations, & then gut the team out from under him without giving him any idea.

 

That being said, this is Girardi's first job as manager. So even if it's true, I don't think he'll be complaining. As I've said before, this way it's a no-lose situation. If they suck everyone will point to the low payroll, but if they play well he'll get all kinds of praise.

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HC,

 

I'm in complete agreement, but you have to believe that the conversation went along the lines of: "look, no one on this team is untouchable, we have to work within a budget, and if there's an offer we can't turn down, we'll take it. Our goal is success in both the short and long term."

 

I doubt that names were named, I doubt that Girardi was told what kind of budget the team was working with (since that always seems to historically be a mystery heading into every Loria/Beinfest offseason), and I doubt Girardi ever heard the term "rebuilding," but even if he did do his homework, you'd have to believe that he'd figure that he'd at least have his "triplets" (Beckett, Willis, Cabrera) since those are the kind of guys 29 other teams line up to take given their ability and salary.

 

I'd be willing to bet that he never thought that he'd possibly be managing a team that was meant to win with a lower payroll than the rebuilding team he turned down. However, it is quite an enviable situation for a rookie manager given that he is in a no lose situation even if the team does frequently.

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Yeah I'd agree with that TSwift. Probably was made aware, just not to this extent. Heck none of us saw this many cuts coming either to my knowledge.

 

As of now, this team isn't significantly worse than it was last year. Offensively we won't be any worse... I actually think the team is better offensively.

 

 

I'll remember you said that. :mischief2

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As of now, this team isn't significantly worse than it was last year. Offensively we won't be any worse... I actually think the team is better offensively.

 

 

I'll remember you said that. :mischief2

 

Simply getting rid of the 2005 versions of Lowell and Gonzalez should be worth at least an extra 20-25 runs, and you have to believe that Pierre will be better than he was last season. Only dip should be Cabrera since he won't have as much protection, but that just opens it up more for Hermida.

 

Oh, and FWIW, a friend of mine in MLB says that the Marlins and MLB honestly felt that the stadium was going to get done up until about three weeks ago, so take that for whatever you want given the context of the Girardi conversations.

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As of now, this team isn't significantly worse than it was last year. Offensively we won't be any worse... I actually think the team is better offensively.

 

 

I'll remember you said that. :mischief2

 

Simply getting rid of the 2005 versions of Lowell and Gonzalez should be worth at least an extra 20-25 runs, and you have to believe that Pierre will be better than he was last season. Only dip should be Cabrera since he won't have as much protection, but that just opens it up more for Hermida.

 

Oh, and FWIW, a friend of mine in MLB says that the Marlins and MLB honestly felt that the stadium was going to get done up until about three weeks ago, so take that for whatever you want given the context of the Girardi conversations.

 

Perhaps Arriola just f-ed it up. Wouldn't surprise me. And I hope he gets fired for it.

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Okay,

 

A) This is NOT a .500 ballclub. We may have the worst starting rotation in the majors. As of right now, it'd be hard to say we have a starting rotation at all. Will we add a starter or two? God, I hope so. Will they be good? No.

 

We also might have the worst bullpen in the majors. As of right now, it'd be hard to say we have a bullpen at all. Will we add a reliever or two? God, I hope so. Will they be good? No.

 

I'm not trying to be inflammatory here. I'm just trying to talk you down before reality catches up with you.

 

B) I don't think Girardi expected a firesale of this magnitude. He was a very hot coaching prospect. Why would he want this to be his first managerial position if he knew he was going to be coaching a bunch of rookies? There's very little chance he'll be in a better position 3-5 years from now than he was when he chose to sign with the Marlins. And somehow he's got to deal with these expectations that this will still be a .500 ballclub. If we go .500, we ought to throw the man a parade, but instead it will get treated ho hum. This is a no win situation.

 

Also, in the wake of all these trades, all that quibbling between him and the front office over the coaching positions seems ridiculous. If all we're playing for is a .500 record, let the man have his coaches.

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Also, in the wake of all these trades, all that quibbling between him and the front office over the coaching positions seems ridiculous. If all we're playing for is a .500 record, let the man have his coaches.

 

 

You know...I completely forgot about this. That really makes this more interesting, at least to me.

 

On the one hand, you could argue that Girardi told the people which way the team was going, leading to the responses from Galarraga and Key of "I'd rather stay home." Or, you could say that the Marlins FO, at the time, wanted their pick of the litter because they wanted to put together an experienced coaching staff (like Wiley) that had proven track records to be part of a winner.

 

There really are so many mixed signals with this, it's kind of insane.

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I think it's far fetched to believe that he didn't know this was coming. Besides what would the Marlins have to gain by hiring one of the more sought after names that were available if they were going to tear the team apart? Girardi has an agent. And he sure as hell could make the Marlins life miserable by coming out against the club and these moves. There has to be some plan because you don't go out and get a manager that's going to cost you more than some other less known guy if you're going to just throw any old team out there. Hell they could have brought back Boles for that.

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I think it's far fetched to believe that he didn't know this was coming. Besides what would the Marlins have to gain by hiring one of the more sought after names that were available if they were going to tear the team apart? Girardi has an agent. And he sure as hell could make the Marlins life miserable by coming out against the club and these moves. There has to be some plan because you don't go out and get a manager that's going to cost you more than some other less known guy if you're going to just throw any old team out there. Hell they could have brought back Boles for that.

 

 

Well, I just think if Girardi came to this team knowing that it was going to be gutted then he's not a very good decisionmaker and he's going to suck as a manager. I'm giving the man the benefit of the doubt.

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Okay,

 

A) This is NOT a .500 ballclub. We may have the worst starting rotation in the majors. As of right now, it'd be hard to say we have a starting rotation at all. Will we add a starter or two? God, I hope so. Will they be good? No.

 

We also might have the worst bullpen in the majors. As of right now, it'd be hard to say we have a bullpen at all. Will we add a reliever or two? God, I hope so. Will they be good? No.

 

I'm not trying to be inflammatory here. I'm just trying to talk you down before reality catches up with you.

 

B) I don't think Girardi expected a firesale of this magnitude. He was a very hot coaching prospect. Why would he want this to be his first managerial position if he knew he was going to be coaching a bunch of rookies? There's very little chance he'll be in a better position 3-5 years from now than he was when he chose to sign with the Marlins. And somehow he's got to deal with these expectations that this will still be a .500 ballclub. If we go .500, we ought to throw the man a parade, but instead it will get treated ho hum. This is a no win situation.

 

Also, in the wake of all these trades, all that quibbling between him and the front office over the coaching positions seems ridiculous. If all we're playing for is a .500 record, let the man have his coaches.

 

 

Olsen and Vargas showed that they can pitch at the big level, and Johnson is basicially Brad Penny with a different name, they will be fine. Petit has been good at every level, if that is our rotation then great, I actually think they will do very well. We dont need to bring in any vetern starters, as they wil be a waste or money and will not help anyway.

 

And by the time 2007 rolls around, wether it be Petit or Volstad in there(or Sanchez...although I have a feeling both will be moved, one if we seriously go after Gathright and another for a LF which we desperately need).

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I do think that Girardi was deceived. He expected to be taking over a winning ball club from Jack McKeon, but as it turns out, Jack left at the right time. I really also believe that the decision to destroy the team happened rather quickly, and has to have been a result of a power change in the Marlins' FO. It doesn't make any sense that Loria would change his strategy so suddenly if he was still in charge.

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