Posted July 6, 200519 yr As if a week or month ago wasn't. this is a sufficient amount of time to assess the employment and roles of certain Marlins. IMO anyone who is willing to stick with the current formula is too emotionally attached to its personnel to recognize changes need to be made. - Lowell has been terrible all year long. One well hit ball tonight aside, he needs to be benched. - Pierre is coming around, but is the best option we have at the leadoff spot or centerfield? - Leiter is terrible. His contract too large to eat. His pitching not suitable anywhere but mop-up. - Encarnacion is red hot. Do we keep him or sell high? I think the return of the trade and the potential of his replacement answer the question. - Forget needing to set the players straight, we need Loria/Samson/Beinfest to approach Jack and his complacent carefree pals to explain how important this season is to the team and the future of the franchise. - Bill Robinson may or may not be the problem, but what he is a convenient scapegoat. One that catches the attention of the team more than the Perisho, Bump and Riedling demotions ever could.
July 6, 200519 yr 8 of JP's last 11 games have been multihit games. He is getting on base again and stealing bags. Yes, he is the best option we have at leadoff and centerfield. You could say Luis would be a better option at leadoff....however, he has been doing a great job in the 2 hole and there is no reason to risk f***ing him up.
July 6, 200519 yr I love Mike but yeah something needs to be done... I once again have full confidence in JP, he'll be fine... I respect Al but if we can get rid of him AND get something in return...do it and do it fast... Encarnacion has his ups and downs but at least he has that and not complete downs like Mike has. I'll take an occasional Encarnacion slump if he keeps coming out of it the way he does lately... If Grandpa Jack leaving is the solution...I love the man but so be it... And as for Robinson, you nailed it on the head...I don't think he's the problem but he is the best scapegoat...him being dumped would be a spark to light this team on fire...I doubt Lowell said "Uh oh! Perisho's gone! I better start hitting!"...try it with Robinson and just see what happens...it can't hurt to try... Yes...its my first post...but I been around for months now and have been following this board pretty often...so thanks for having me...
July 6, 200519 yr I found it odd that the Orioles were after Lowell... Maybe we can work a deal. 841570[/snapback] Good news is this.Marlins were 83-79 last season.If you take the 42-39 record and double it, it shows they are on a pace to go 84-78 and have a better year than last! That is great news!!!!!! :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead
July 6, 200519 yr I found it odd that the Orioles were after Lowell... Maybe we can work a deal. 841570[/snapback] Good news is this.Marlins were 83-79 last season.If you take the 42-39 record and double it, it shows they are on a pace to go 84-78 and have a better year than last! That is great news!!!!!! :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead 841578[/snapback] HAHA. I never looked at it that way. That is great.
July 6, 200519 yr As if a week or month ago wasn't. this is a sufficient amount of time to assess the employment and roles of certain Marlins. IMO anyone who is willing to stick with the current formula is too emotionally attached to its personnel to recognize changes need to be made. - Lowell has been terrible all year long. One well hit ball tonight aside, he needs to be benched. - Pierre is coming around, but is the best option we have at the leadoff spot or centerfield? - Leiter is terrible. His contract too large to eat. His pitching not suitable anywhere but mop-up. - Encarnacion is red hot. Do we keep him or sell high? I think the return of the trade and the potential of his replacement answer the question. - Forget needing to set the players straight, we need Loria/Samson/Beinfest to approach Jack and his complacent carefree pals to explain how important this season is to the team and the future of the franchise. - Bill Robinson may or may not be the problem, but what he is a convenient scapegoat. One that catches the attention of the team more than the Perisho, Bump and Riedling demotions ever could. 841565[/snapback] Well put. Pierre is coming around and will have a good second half. Let's see how Valdez does when he comes back before making a final decision on Leiter. Goldie asked Beinfest this morning "at what point do you make the decision that a player (Lowell) is not just having a bad start, but a bad season." Beinfest stated that you tend to give a veteran like Lowell more time to come out of his slump than you might for a younger player. His tone indicated that Mike will be given a bit more time to turn it around. At this point we keep Encarnacion. The only way we trade him is if we get a solid RFer in the trade, i.e. Sheffield (which isn't going to happen BTW). Conine is an inadequate replacement in RF. Yes, Bill Robinson needs to be replaced. His offense has failed to score runs when it counts for over a full season. Bottom line he isn't getting the job done. The corollary to that is another hitting coach is unlikely to do worse.
July 6, 200519 yr I love Mike but yeah something needs to be done... I once again have full confidence in JP, he'll be fine... I respect Al but if we can get rid of him AND get something in return...do it and do it fast... Encarnacion has his ups and downs but at least he has that and not complete downs like Mike has. I'll take an occasional Encarnacion slump if he keeps coming out of it the way he does lately... If Grandpa Jack leaving is the solution...I love the man but so be it... And as for Robinson, you nailed it on the head...I don't think he's the problem but he is the best scapegoat...him being dumped would be a spark to light this team on fire...I doubt Lowell said "Uh oh! Perisho's gone! I better start hitting!"...try it with Robinson and just see what happens...it can't hurt to try... Yes...its my first post...but I been around for months now and have been following this board pretty often...so thanks for having me... 841577[/snapback] Welcome to the site. :thumbup
July 6, 200519 yr - The problem with Lowell needs to be addressed. There are times when I would rather have the pitcher batting (and not just Dontrelle) than Mikey. - Pierre is not only the best option we have in center, but the team's hot streak can be directly correlated to Juanpy's resurgence. As long as he keeps it up, the team will be well off. I think he'll lead us big time in the second half. - The money has already been paid, we might as well treat him like any other player at this point. He did a solid job of eating some innings tonight, hopefully he can be worked into a capable reliever assuming that Josh hasn't gone and killed himself again. - Leave him. If you were to remove Enc from this team right now, no one would be crossing the plate because he seems like the only one enlightened enough to figure out baseball games are won by how many times you cross that funny looking thing the catcher sits behind. - Jack needs to realize Mark Wiley does a better job with the pitcher management, and that he needs to find a way to spark this team up a bit. His moves are just too baffling right now. Why not start Willy for a couple days at third, or Easley, or Dontrelle, and hope for the best? - Can the schmuck already.
July 6, 200519 yr Nice insight, here's how I look at it: Pierre can't be benched, Lowell can't be benched fast enough (and putting Willingham in, either at third or in left), Leiter can't be moved, and the bullpen can/will only be fixed by dealing Encarnacion. I guess it comes down to how many "domino" deals Beinfest has up his sleeve (and more importantly, how much we're willing to give up) if Enc is dealt. Personally, I'd like to see us use every resource available to lock up AJ, and perhaps peek into what may be made available in a Beckett trade (Lidge? Sheffield?). However, this is not to be construed as an advocation of trading either Beckett or Burnett, when those guys are healthy they have the arms capable of taking over a post-season, but right now (and I'm trying to avoid "chicken little syndrome") I'm pretty sold on Beckett never being a true "cornerstone." Robinson needs to be made into the scapegoat, that's been my position (the scapegoat thing, not simply having his head) on the firing all along...it lights a fire.
July 6, 200519 yr I never have the motivation to read the large paragraphs in posts. 841613[/snapback] God forbid time be wasted on something substantive.
July 6, 200519 yr I never have the motivation to read the large paragraphs in posts. 841613[/snapback] God forbid time be wasted on something substantive. 841617[/snapback] Damn, you people are abrasive.
July 6, 200519 yr 1. Agreed - Lowell's benching needs to happen sooner rather than later. 2. I'd still rather see Castillo in the leadoff spot (for his ability to get on base) and Enc in center (for his defensive abilities and for the fact that when he is moved to CF he's actually a pretty good hitter by comparison to other MLB CF's), but Pierre has been hitting better, and he seems to be stealing at a better clip, too. So it's really not that big a deal anymore to have him leading off, as he's not killing the team in that spot like he was a few weeks ago. I also don't see Beinfest and Co. moving Juanpy anytime this season, which means Enc will stay out of CF (if he ever had a chance at all). 3. Mop up duty - though getting a team to pay even 1 mil of his contract might almost be worth it at this point, but there'd be no reason for any other team to do that. 4. Depends what you can get for him, since I don't really think there's any chance he gets a long term shot in CF here, and Hermida will be in RF next year in all likelihood. If Zach Day (or a similar pitcher) becomes availabe (and is healthy), and the Nats or a similar team are willing to take on all of his contract, it's something to think about. But there's no reason to deal Enc just for the sake of getting him off the team, as he's playing reasonably well. 5. Agreed. 6. I don't think firing Robinson and bringing in a new hitting coach would do much to help Mike Lowell find his swing or anything of the mechanical sort, but if there's a possibility it will light a fire, it's worth a shot. But if the All Star Break passes and no move is made, I'd guess it won't happen during the season at any point.
July 6, 200519 yr I'm willing to give Mikey some more time. I think that this might just be one of those years all players have. At this point I don't think trading Enc would be wise. With the way Lowell is hitting Enc is a crucial part of the offense. I'd rather see Burnett traded for a good young pitcher. We need a pitcher that is willing to learn how to pitch. We might as well trade him because there is not a chance in hell we resign him. I'd rather see the team give the money to Alex G. The season thus far has been very disappointing. We are 8 games behind the Nats. The offense even though it is near the top of the league in AVG, OBP, and BA with RISP hasn't scored the amount of runs it should have. E. f***ing. Nigma.
July 6, 200519 yr I'm willing to give Mikey some more time. I think that this might just be one of those years all players have. At this point I don't think trading Enc would be wise. With the way Lowell is hitting Enc is a crucial part of the offense. I'd rather see Burnett traded for a good young pitcher. We need a pitcher that is willing to learn how to pitch. We might as well trade him because there is not a chance in hell we resign him. I'd rather see the team give the money to Alex G. The season thus far has been very disappointing. We are 8 games behind the Nats. The offense even though it is near the top of the league in AVG, OBP, and BA with RISP hasn't scored the amount of runs it should have. E. f***ing. Nigma. 841634[/snapback] Agree with everything you said, except about giving the money to Gonzalez. I used to be one of his biggest supporters, going so far as to say the runs he takes away from other teams are worth his struggles at the plate, but I have grown too tired of him booting "routine" plays in crucial situations. Balls that he shouldn't get to, he makes plays on, but the balls he should field cleanly when the game is on the line he (at least recently) turns them into an adventure. If it's Gonzalez or Burnett, at this point, I'd rather see AJ back, and this is with an understanding of the likelihood that he's a .500 "thrower" and not a dominant pitcher.
July 6, 200519 yr I'm willing to give Mikey some more time. I think that this might just be one of those years all players have. At this point I don't think trading Enc would be wise. With the way Lowell is hitting Enc is a crucial part of the offense. I'd rather see Burnett traded for a good young pitcher. We need a pitcher that is willing to learn how to pitch. We might as well trade him because there is not a chance in hell we resign him. I'd rather see the team give the money to Alex G. The season thus far has been very disappointing. We are 8 games behind the Nats. The offense even though it is near the top of the league in AVG, OBP, and BA with RISP hasn't scored the amount of runs it should have. E. f***ing. Nigma. 841634[/snapback] Agree with everything you said, except about giving the money to Gonzalez. I used to be one of his biggest supporters, going so far as to say the runs he takes away from other teams are worth his struggles at the plate, but I have grown too tired of him booting "routine" plays in crucial situations. Balls that he shouldn't get to, he makes plays on, but the balls he should field cleanly when the game is on the line he (at least recently) turns them into an adventure. If it's Gonzalez or Burnett, at this point, I'd rather see AJ back, and this is with an understanding of the likelihood that he's a .500 "thrower" and not a dominant pitcher. 841636[/snapback] Yeah I see your point. BUT I'll take what he does 95% of the time over those 3 or 4 plays he's had this year anytime. Burnett's arm is damaged goods and it will be for the rest of his career. It's to much of a gamble for a small market team like the Marlins to sign a pitcher with a history of elbow problem to a 4 year 40 million dollar contract (which is what I assume he wants).
July 6, 200519 yr I'm willing to give Mikey some more time. I think that this might just be one of those years all players have. At this point I don't think trading Enc would be wise. With the way Lowell is hitting Enc is a crucial part of the offense. I'd rather see Burnett traded for a good young pitcher. We need a pitcher that is willing to learn how to pitch. We might as well trade him because there is not a chance in hell we resign him. I'd rather see the team give the money to Alex G. The season thus far has been very disappointing. We are 8 games behind the Nats. The offense even though it is near the top of the league in AVG, OBP, and BA with RISP hasn't scored the amount of runs it should have. E. f***ing. Nigma. 841634[/snapback] Agree with everything you said, except about giving the money to Gonzalez. I used to be one of his biggest supporters, going so far as to say the runs he takes away from other teams are worth his struggles at the plate, but I have grown too tired of him booting "routine" plays in crucial situations. Balls that he shouldn't get to, he makes plays on, but the balls he should field cleanly when the game is on the line he (at least recently) turns them into an adventure. If it's Gonzalez or Burnett, at this point, I'd rather see AJ back, and this is with an understanding of the likelihood that he's a .500 "thrower" and not a dominant pitcher. 841636[/snapback] Yeah I see your point. BUT I'll take what he does 95% of the time over those 3 or 4 plays he's had this year anytime. Burnett's arm is damaged goods and it will be for the rest of his career. It's to much of a gamble for a small market team like the Marlins to sign a pitcher with a history of elbow problem to a 4 year 40 million dollar contract (which is what I assume he wants). 841669[/snapback] Oh, I totally understand where you're coming from, but at the risk of sounding overly presumptive, I think AJ would jump at the 3/$24 we refused to go to in S.T. $8 million a season for AJ is better than $6 million for Alex (thank you very much Jimmy Rollins). If AJ won't go lower than 4/$40, no he's not worth it, but before he showed he couldn't pitch much above his .500 record he indicated he would be willing to take the money we offered Pavano, and since then he hasn't done much to drive his price up...
July 6, 200519 yr I'm willing to give Mikey some more time. I think that this might just be one of those years all players have. At this point I don't think trading Enc would be wise. With the way Lowell is hitting Enc is a crucial part of the offense. I'd rather see Burnett traded for a good young pitcher. We need a pitcher that is willing to learn how to pitch. We might as well trade him because there is not a chance in hell we resign him. I'd rather see the team give the money to Alex G. The season thus far has been very disappointing. We are 8 games behind the Nats. The offense even though it is near the top of the league in AVG, OBP, and BA with RISP hasn't scored the amount of runs it should have. E. f***ing. Nigma. 841634[/snapback] Agree with everything you said, except about giving the money to Gonzalez. I used to be one of his biggest supporters, going so far as to say the runs he takes away from other teams are worth his struggles at the plate, but I have grown too tired of him booting "routine" plays in crucial situations. Balls that he shouldn't get to, he makes plays on, but the balls he should field cleanly when the game is on the line he (at least recently) turns them into an adventure. If it's Gonzalez or Burnett, at this point, I'd rather see AJ back, and this is with an understanding of the likelihood that he's a .500 "thrower" and not a dominant pitcher. 841636[/snapback] Yeah I see your point. BUT I'll take what he does 95% of the time over those 3 or 4 plays he's had this year anytime. Burnett's arm is damaged goods and it will be for the rest of his career. It's to much of a gamble for a small market team like the Marlins to sign a pitcher with a history of elbow problem to a 4 year 40 million dollar contract (which is what I assume he wants). 841669[/snapback] Oh, I totally understand where you're coming from, but at the risk of sounding overly presumptive, I think AJ would jump at the 3/$24 we refused to go to in S.T. $8 million a season for AJ is better than $6 million for Alex (thank you very much Jimmy Rollins). If AJ won't go lower than 4/$40, no he's not worth it, but before he showed he couldn't pitch much above his .500 record he indicated he would be willing to take the money we offered Pavano, and since then he hasn't done much to drive his price up... 841670[/snapback] I agree the Rollins signing hurt our chances at resigning Gonzalez a lot. But you have to think he will test the market. There are a few teams that will be looking for a pitcher like AJ (BAL, TOR, NYM, SEA, NYY, DET, TEX). One of these rich teams will offer the 40/4 and AJ will spit on the 24/3 offer.
July 6, 200519 yr I'm willing to give Mikey some more time. I think that this might just be one of those years all players have. At this point I don't think trading Enc would be wise. With the way Lowell is hitting Enc is a crucial part of the offense. I'd rather see Burnett traded for a good young pitcher. We need a pitcher that is willing to learn how to pitch. We might as well trade him because there is not a chance in hell we resign him. I'd rather see the team give the money to Alex G. The season thus far has been very disappointing. We are 8 games behind the Nats. The offense even though it is near the top of the league in AVG, OBP, and BA with RISP hasn't scored the amount of runs it should have. E. f***ing. Nigma. 841634[/snapback] Agree with everything you said, except about giving the money to Gonzalez. I used to be one of his biggest supporters, going so far as to say the runs he takes away from other teams are worth his struggles at the plate, but I have grown too tired of him booting "routine" plays in crucial situations. Balls that he shouldn't get to, he makes plays on, but the balls he should field cleanly when the game is on the line he (at least recently) turns them into an adventure. If it's Gonzalez or Burnett, at this point, I'd rather see AJ back, and this is with an understanding of the likelihood that he's a .500 "thrower" and not a dominant pitcher. 841636[/snapback] Yeah I see your point. BUT I'll take what he does 95% of the time over those 3 or 4 plays he's had this year anytime. Burnett's arm is damaged goods and it will be for the rest of his career. It's to much of a gamble for a small market team like the Marlins to sign a pitcher with a history of elbow problem to a 4 year 40 million dollar contract (which is what I assume he wants). 841669[/snapback] Oh, I totally understand where you're coming from, but at the risk of sounding overly presumptive, I think AJ would jump at the 3/$24 we refused to go to in S.T. $8 million a season for AJ is better than $6 million for Alex (thank you very much Jimmy Rollins). If AJ won't go lower than 4/$40, no he's not worth it, but before he showed he couldn't pitch much above his .500 record he indicated he would be willing to take the money we offered Pavano, and since then he hasn't done much to drive his price up... 841670[/snapback] I agree the Rollins signing hurt our chances at resigning Gonzalez a lot. But you have to think he will test the market. There are a few teams that will be looking for a pitcher like AJ (BAL, TOR, NYM, SEA, NYY, DET, TEX). One of these rich teams will offer the 40/4 and AJ will spit on the 24/3 offer. 841684[/snapback] AJ (again, at the start of the season) seemed receptive to signing in the middle of the year (remember the "when I'm 9-1" comment?). Go all out at the break, do everything necessary, burn the phone lines with his agent, but don't go higher than the deal Penny signed with the Dodgers. If he thinks he's worth more than that (and if his agent realistically expects to have a stronger market than that he is seriously misguided), forget it, trade him, but make sure Lowell is along for the ride. If AJ can't get Lowell off the books (meaning we don't pay a cent), I'd rather ride it out, offer him arby and see where it takes us...
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