July 15, 200521 yr Author I don't see him staying after the season, and only 5 wins in all those starts by this point in the season is not a good stat.? If other teams are offering good deals, take it 856391[/snapback] We have to remember also that there is a run support issue too! A guy with 17 starts and only 5 wins and an era under 4 is a classic sign of poor run support. 856468[/snapback] Dontrelle hasn't had a lot of problems winning games with low run support. Can someone find out how many runs he gets per game? 856477[/snapback] Thats an easy one to explain......................Dontrelle is a better pitcher than AJ this year. he can get away with it and also Dontrelle's era is just about 2 I believe. That's a huge difference. 856483[/snapback] My response is gonna sound childish but, "Why can't AJ have an ERA somewhere in the 2's. His ERA is almost double Dontrelle's because he makes too many mistakes. AJ has the stuff and the potential (and that's all we ever hear about concerning him) to have an ERA along the lines of 2.5 - 2.8 range, but he tries to strike everyone out instead of "Pitching" and making the hitter tap the ball towards a fielder.
July 15, 200521 yr I still dont want AJ traded, but at the same time I dont think he will be back next year. So on that prospect bring me that Toronto deal or the White Sox deal. I dont like the Yanks deal or the O's (specially without Cabrera).
July 15, 200521 yr Any deal with the Red Sox likely would send Bronson Arroyo to South Florida, and indications are they wouldn't insist on a 72-hour negotiating window to hammer out an extension. The Twins, who may also be willing to take Mike Lowell assuming the Marlins provide financial relief, would part with right-hander Kyle Lohse. Though the Rangers' Kenny Rogers is a free agent after this season, the Marlins made a run at him before the 2003 season. One undeveloped yet intriguing scenario to the Marlins: bringing back Carl Pavano for Burnett and Al Leiter, who they designated for assignment Thursday. The Yankees made a bid for Leiter last offseason and are desperate for starting pitching. A few things could derail a Pavano return engagement before it gets rolling. The two teams would have to work out the money to where the Marlins would end up with a three-year, roughly $21 million commitment, what they offered Pavano last offseason. Pavano, who will have three years and about $31 million left on his contract after 2005, has a no trade clause this season. Burnett is believed to favor a long-term deal with the Orioles or Red Sox rather than the Yankees. "It doesn't matter," Burnett said. "If I go, I go. If I stay, I stay. You have to block all that out. ... They got me tonight. I was nowhere to be found."
July 15, 200521 yr Dontrelle hasn't had a lot of problems winning games with low run support. Can someone find out how many runs he gets per game? I don't have the stat on me, but off the top of my head Dontrelle is easily the pitcher who gets the most runs on our staff per game. A couple of weeks ago it was north of 6 runs a start.
July 15, 200521 yr The Marlins are reportedly asking for Gustavo Chacin, Gabe Gross and Brandon League from Toronto for Burnett according to the Toronto Sun.
July 15, 200521 yr The Marlins are reportedly asking for Gustavo Chacin, Gabe Gross and Brandon League from Toronto for Burnett according to the Toronto Sun. 856511[/snapback] *hi 5s self*
July 15, 200521 yr I don't see him staying after the season, and only 5 wins in all those starts by this point in the season is not a good stat.? If other teams are offering good deals, take it 856391[/snapback] We have to remember also that there is a run support issue too! A guy with 17 starts and only 5 wins and an era under 4 is a classic sign of poor run support. 856468[/snapback] Dontrelle hasn't had a lot of problems winning games with low run support. Can someone find out how many runs he gets per game? 856477[/snapback] Thats an easy one to explain......................Dontrelle is a better pitcher than AJ this year. he can get away with it and also Dontrelle's era is just about 2 I believe. That's a huge difference. 856483[/snapback] My response is gonna sound childish but, "Why can't AJ have an ERA somewhere in the 2's. His ERA is almost double Dontrelle's because he makes too many mistakes. AJ has the stuff and the potential (and that's all we ever hear about concerning him) to have an ERA along the lines of 2.5 - 2.8 range, but he tries to strike everyone out instead of "Pitching" and making the hitter tap the ball towards a fielder. 856485[/snapback] I agree 100%
July 15, 200521 yr The Marlins are reportedly asking for Gustavo Chacin, Gabe Gross and Brandon League from Toronto for Burnett according to the Toronto Sun. 856511[/snapback] *hi 5s self* 856512[/snapback] *hi 5s Maverick*
July 15, 200521 yr The Marlins are reportedly asking for Gustavo Chacin, Gabe Gross and Brandon League from Toronto for Burnett according to the Toronto Sun. 856511[/snapback] *hi 5s self* 856512[/snapback] *hi 5s Maverick* 856519[/snapback] I hate to sound like an idiot or a lazy arse but can someone give a little scouting report on these guys. I know about Chacin but for good measure just give a little blurb on him too.
July 15, 200521 yr The Marlins are reportedly asking for Gustavo Chacin, Gabe Gross and Brandon League from Toronto for Burnett according to the Toronto Sun. 856511[/snapback] *hi 5s self* 856512[/snapback] *hi 5s Maverick* 856519[/snapback] I hate to sound like an idiot or a lazy arse but can someone give a little scouting report on these guys. I know about Chacin but for good measure just give a little blurb on him too. 856522[/snapback] Background: Though the Blue Jays now shy away from spending early picks on high school righthanders, League is the third in recent years to sit atop this list, joining Roy Halladay (1997-99) and Dustin McGowan (2003). Coming out of high school in Honolulu, League was committed to Pepperdine before the Blue Jays persuaded him to sign for $600,000. Toronto initially was cautious with him, taking a slow-track approach like they did with McGowan and not letting League make his full-season debut until his third year as a pro. Yet he still managed to reach the majors at age 21 and didn't look intimidated in his debut. He entered his first game at Yankee Stadium with two out, the bases loaded and Gary Sheffield looming at the plate. He overpowered Sheffield, getting a harmless grounder, and worked 1 1/3 scoreless innings. After working almost exclusively as a starter before 2004, League responded well with a move to the bullpen. The Jays hoped to accelerate his timetable by shifting him to relief, though he still made 10 starts before earning his September cup of coffee. He highlighted his breakthrough campaign by hitting 102 mph on the stadium radar gun at the Eastern League all-star game. Strengths: League is one of the hardest throwers in the minors, and he has the potential to become either a frontline starter or dominant closer, depending on what Toronto wants. League features a heavy fastball that sits at 95-97 mph. The lively sink and running action on his heater make the pitch difficult for hitters to center. He generates his velocity and life with a lightning-quick arm and throws from a whip-like, lower three-quarters arm slot. Former Blue Jays pitching coach Gil Patterson says the movement on League?s fastball reminds him of Halladay?s. League works down in the zone and generated a 2.7 groundball/flyball ratio in Double-A. His 87-89 mph slider is also a plus pitch. He has developed an effective third pitch in his changeup, so scouts believe he won?t have to be limited to short-relief work. Weaknesses: League?s work with pitching instructors Dane Johnson and Rick Adair contributed to his rise, but he still has further adjustments to make. He needs to a better job of maintaining his arm slot. He tends to over-rotate in his delivery and drag his arm, which keeps him from staying on top of his slider. Scouts did note that League?s delivery was much improved in 2004, as he looked cleaner and used less effort. For a guy with such an electric arm, he doesn't blow away as many hitters as might be expected. The Future: After earning MVP honors in the Eastern League playoffs, League continued to open eyes with his performance in Toronto. He'll go to spring training with a good chance to make the big league club and figures to get his feet wet in the Jays' bullpen in 2005. With no established closer in Toronto, League's power repertoire could land him that role. But he also has enough stuff to project as a quality starter and could be more valuable in that role. Background: Scout Luis Feunmayo delivered Chacin to the Jays' Venezuela academy in 1998, and he was signed on the spot for $50,000. Chacin reached Double-A at age 19, but disappeared from the prospect radar when he scuffled and was demoted to the bullpen. He rebounded in 2004, leading the minors with 18 victories and being named Eastern League pitcher of the year before defeating the Yankees in his major league debut. Strengths: Chacin always had been a fastball/changeup pitcher with a show-me curveball. His success can be attributed to the addition of a cut fastball, which helped him get righthanders out. He effectively changes speeds with his 83-89 mph cutter by varying his grip and pressure points. He also gives hitters a difficult look with a slight stutter in his delivery. His two-seam fastball ranges from 87-92 mph, and his changeup is average with good movement. Weaknesses: Chacin?s curve is still a below-average pitch. He needs to improve it or find a pitch he can overmatch lefthanders with. The Future: Chacin has pitched his way into the Jays' plans. He'll vie for a spot at the back of the rotation in spring training. Gabe Gross, of Age: 24. B-T: L-R. Ht.: 6-3. Wt.: 209. Drafted: Auburn, 2001 (1st round). Signed by: Ellis Dungan. Background: Auburn?s starting quarterback as a freshman in 1998, Gross has made the decision to leave football behind look smart. He grinded out a productive 2003 season, which ended with him starting in right field for the ill-fated U.S. Olympic qualifying team. Strengths: Gross is a good athlete with solid average or above-average tools across the board. He has at least average power, runs well for his size and his arm fits well in right field. He commands the strike zone well and is learning to be aggressive in hitter?s counts. Weaknesses: Gross struggled in 2002 because he couldn?t get his hands in good position for his swing, but he seems to have made that adjustment. His football background means he has less experience than a typical college draftee, so his home run production hasn?t approached his ceiling yet. He struggles with southpaws (.248 with four homers in 129 at-bats last year). The Future: Gross could resemble Paul O?Neill, a corner outfielder who hits for a good average and 15-20 homers, or he could become a 30-homer threat. He should start 2004 back in Triple-A.
July 15, 200521 yr 856386[/snapback] But why would you all of a sudden be on the "trade A.J." bandwagon after 1 bad outing. I agree with what you said about hit pitching method but this is how he's always been. 856388[/snapback] he has a 5-6 record. i think he has had more than 1 bad start
July 15, 200521 yr ajs overrated trade him while teams still think he is good which he isnt :banghead
July 15, 200521 yr 856386[/snapback] But why would you all of a sudden be on the "trade A.J." bandwagon after 1 bad outing. I agree with what you said about hit pitching method but this is how he's always been. 856388[/snapback] he has a 5-6 record. i think he has had more than 1 bad start 856543[/snapback] its not just one bad outing. and the window to make a deal is closing. dont wanna wait too long like last year. :whistle
July 15, 200521 yr The Marlins are reportedly asking for Gustavo Chacin, Gabe Gross and Brandon League from Toronto for Burnett according to the Toronto Sun. 856511[/snapback] *hi 5s self* 856512[/snapback] *hi 5s Maverick* 856519[/snapback] I hate to sound like an idiot or a lazy arse but can someone give a little scouting report on these guys. I know about Chacin but for good measure just give a little blurb on him too. 856522[/snapback] Background: Though the Blue Jays now shy away from spending early picks on high school righthanders, League is the third in recent years to sit atop this list, joining Roy Halladay (1997-99) and Dustin McGowan (2003). Coming out of high school in Honolulu, League was committed to Pepperdine before the Blue Jays persuaded him to sign for $600,000. Toronto initially was cautious with him, taking a slow-track approach like they did with McGowan and not letting League make his full-season debut until his third year as a pro. Yet he still managed to reach the majors at age 21 and didn't look intimidated in his debut. He entered his first game at Yankee Stadium with two out, the bases loaded and Gary Sheffield looming at the plate. He overpowered Sheffield, getting a harmless grounder, and worked 1 1/3 scoreless innings. After working almost exclusively as a starter before 2004, League responded well with a move to the bullpen. The Jays hoped to accelerate his timetable by shifting him to relief, though he still made 10 starts before earning his September cup of coffee. He highlighted his breakthrough campaign by hitting 102 mph on the stadium radar gun at the Eastern League all-star game. Strengths: League is one of the hardest throwers in the minors, and he has the potential to become either a frontline starter or dominant closer, depending on what Toronto wants. League features a heavy fastball that sits at 95-97 mph. The lively sink and running action on his heater make the pitch difficult for hitters to center. He generates his velocity and life with a lightning-quick arm and throws from a whip-like, lower three-quarters arm slot. Former Blue Jays pitching coach Gil Patterson says the movement on League?s fastball reminds him of Halladay?s. League works down in the zone and generated a 2.7 groundball/flyball ratio in Double-A. His 87-89 mph slider is also a plus pitch. He has developed an effective third pitch in his changeup, so scouts believe he won?t have to be limited to short-relief work. Weaknesses: League?s work with pitching instructors Dane Johnson and Rick Adair contributed to his rise, but he still has further adjustments to make. He needs to a better job of maintaining his arm slot. He tends to over-rotate in his delivery and drag his arm, which keeps him from staying on top of his slider. Scouts did note that League?s delivery was much improved in 2004, as he looked cleaner and used less effort. For a guy with such an electric arm, he doesn't blow away as many hitters as might be expected. The Future: After earning MVP honors in the Eastern League playoffs, League continued to open eyes with his performance in Toronto. He'll go to spring training with a good chance to make the big league club and figures to get his feet wet in the Jays' bullpen in 2005. With no established closer in Toronto, League's power repertoire could land him that role. But he also has enough stuff to project as a quality starter and could be more valuable in that role. Background: Scout Luis Feunmayo delivered Chacin to the Jays' Venezuela academy in 1998, and he was signed on the spot for $50,000. Chacin reached Double-A at age 19, but disappeared from the prospect radar when he scuffled and was demoted to the bullpen. He rebounded in 2004, leading the minors with 18 victories and being named Eastern League pitcher of the year before defeating the Yankees in his major league debut. Strengths: Chacin always had been a fastball/changeup pitcher with a show-me curveball. His success can be attributed to the addition of a cut fastball, which helped him get righthanders out. He effectively changes speeds with his 83-89 mph cutter by varying his grip and pressure points. He also gives hitters a difficult look with a slight stutter in his delivery. His two-seam fastball ranges from 87-92 mph, and his changeup is average with good movement. Weaknesses: Chacin?s curve is still a below-average pitch. He needs to improve it or find a pitch he can overmatch lefthanders with. The Future: Chacin has pitched his way into the Jays' plans. He'll vie for a spot at the back of the rotation in spring training. Gabe Gross, of Age: 24. B-T: L-R. Ht.: 6-3. Wt.: 209. Drafted: Auburn, 2001 (1st round). Signed by: Ellis Dungan. Background: Auburn?s starting quarterback as a freshman in 1998, Gross has made the decision to leave football behind look smart. He grinded out a productive 2003 season, which ended with him starting in right field for the ill-fated U.S. Olympic qualifying team. Strengths: Gross is a good athlete with solid average or above-average tools across the board. He has at least average power, runs well for his size and his arm fits well in right field. He commands the strike zone well and is learning to be aggressive in hitter?s counts. Weaknesses: Gross struggled in 2002 because he couldn?t get his hands in good position for his swing, but he seems to have made that adjustment. His football background means he has less experience than a typical college draftee, so his home run production hasn?t approached his ceiling yet. He struggles with southpaws (.248 with four homers in 129 at-bats last year). The Future: Gross could resemble Paul O?Neill, a corner outfielder who hits for a good average and 15-20 homers, or he could become a 30-homer threat. He should start 2004 back in Triple-A. 856538[/snapback] Great articles. I like all three of these kids. What would we be offereing besides just AJ though? To get their 2 top young pitchers, and one of the top 5 other prospects we must be offering a pretty penny.
July 15, 200521 yr The Marlins are reportedly asking for Gustavo Chacin, Gabe Gross and Brandon League from Toronto for Burnett according to the Toronto Sun. 856511[/snapback] *hi 5s self* 856512[/snapback] *hi 5s Maverick* 856519[/snapback] I hate to sound like an idiot or a lazy arse but can someone give a little scouting report on these guys. I know about Chacin but for good measure just give a little blurb on him too. 856522[/snapback] Background: Though the Blue Jays now shy away from spending early picks on high school righthanders, League is the third in recent years to sit atop this list, joining Roy Halladay (1997-99) and Dustin McGowan (2003). Coming out of high school in Honolulu, League was committed to Pepperdine before the Blue Jays persuaded him to sign for $600,000. Toronto initially was cautious with him, taking a slow-track approach like they did with McGowan and not letting League make his full-season debut until his third year as a pro. Yet he still managed to reach the majors at age 21 and didn't look intimidated in his debut. He entered his first game at Yankee Stadium with two out, the bases loaded and Gary Sheffield looming at the plate. He overpowered Sheffield, getting a harmless grounder, and worked 1 1/3 scoreless innings. After working almost exclusively as a starter before 2004, League responded well with a move to the bullpen. The Jays hoped to accelerate his timetable by shifting him to relief, though he still made 10 starts before earning his September cup of coffee. He highlighted his breakthrough campaign by hitting 102 mph on the stadium radar gun at the Eastern League all-star game. Strengths: League is one of the hardest throwers in the minors, and he has the potential to become either a frontline starter or dominant closer, depending on what Toronto wants. League features a heavy fastball that sits at 95-97 mph. The lively sink and running action on his heater make the pitch difficult for hitters to center. He generates his velocity and life with a lightning-quick arm and throws from a whip-like, lower three-quarters arm slot. Former Blue Jays pitching coach Gil Patterson says the movement on League?s fastball reminds him of Halladay?s. League works down in the zone and generated a 2.7 groundball/flyball ratio in Double-A. His 87-89 mph slider is also a plus pitch. He has developed an effective third pitch in his changeup, so scouts believe he won?t have to be limited to short-relief work. Weaknesses: League?s work with pitching instructors Dane Johnson and Rick Adair contributed to his rise, but he still has further adjustments to make. He needs to a better job of maintaining his arm slot. He tends to over-rotate in his delivery and drag his arm, which keeps him from staying on top of his slider. Scouts did note that League?s delivery was much improved in 2004, as he looked cleaner and used less effort. For a guy with such an electric arm, he doesn't blow away as many hitters as might be expected. The Future: After earning MVP honors in the Eastern League playoffs, League continued to open eyes with his performance in Toronto. He'll go to spring training with a good chance to make the big league club and figures to get his feet wet in the Jays' bullpen in 2005. With no established closer in Toronto, League's power repertoire could land him that role. But he also has enough stuff to project as a quality starter and could be more valuable in that role. Background: Scout Luis Feunmayo delivered Chacin to the Jays' Venezuela academy in 1998, and he was signed on the spot for $50,000. Chacin reached Double-A at age 19, but disappeared from the prospect radar when he scuffled and was demoted to the bullpen. He rebounded in 2004, leading the minors with 18 victories and being named Eastern League pitcher of the year before defeating the Yankees in his major league debut. Strengths: Chacin always had been a fastball/changeup pitcher with a show-me curveball. His success can be attributed to the addition of a cut fastball, which helped him get righthanders out. He effectively changes speeds with his 83-89 mph cutter by varying his grip and pressure points. He also gives hitters a difficult look with a slight stutter in his delivery. His two-seam fastball ranges from 87-92 mph, and his changeup is average with good movement. Weaknesses: Chacin?s curve is still a below-average pitch. He needs to improve it or find a pitch he can overmatch lefthanders with. The Future: Chacin has pitched his way into the Jays' plans. He'll vie for a spot at the back of the rotation in spring training. Gabe Gross, of Age: 24. B-T: L-R. Ht.: 6-3. Wt.: 209. Drafted: Auburn, 2001 (1st round). Signed by: Ellis Dungan. Background: Auburn?s starting quarterback as a freshman in 1998, Gross has made the decision to leave football behind look smart. He grinded out a productive 2003 season, which ended with him starting in right field for the ill-fated U.S. Olympic qualifying team. Strengths: Gross is a good athlete with solid average or above-average tools across the board. He has at least average power, runs well for his size and his arm fits well in right field. He commands the strike zone well and is learning to be aggressive in hitter?s counts. Weaknesses: Gross struggled in 2002 because he couldn?t get his hands in good position for his swing, but he seems to have made that adjustment. His football background means he has less experience than a typical college draftee, so his home run production hasn?t approached his ceiling yet. He struggles with southpaws (.248 with four homers in 129 at-bats last year). The Future: Gross could resemble Paul O?Neill, a corner outfielder who hits for a good average and 15-20 homers, or he could become a 30-homer threat. He should start 2004 back in Triple-A. 856538[/snapback] Great articles. I like all three of these kids. What would we be offereing besides just AJ though? To get their 2 top young pitchers, and one of the top 5 other prospects we must be offering a pretty penny. 856572[/snapback] I dont think Gabe Gross is one of their top 10 prospects anymore.... atleast according to BA, yea he is #11 :whistle
July 15, 200521 yr I'm starting to think it is time to trade him just because I am getting tired of all the AJ threads. :confused
July 15, 200521 yr Depends on whether or not you want to make the playoffs. I don't see Olsen and Vargas taking the Marlins there this season. 856386[/snapback] Get a bullpen and get the offense moving we should be ok. But why would you all of a sudden be on the "trade A.J." bandwagon after 1 bad outing. I agree with what you said about hit pitching method but this is how he's always been. 856388[/snapback] I agree, one outing good or bad shouldn't really affect what camp you are in with AJ at this point. 856404[/snapback] Do we need to bring up the game in New York again? The one where he had a complete meltodown??
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