July 15, 200521 yr Before tonight's game, I always thought I wanted AJ to be a part of this rotation for a long time. After I watched tonight's game, I say get the best trade value for him. If the stat I saw during the game was correct, he is a few games below .500 for his career win/loss record. He always seems to have filthy stuff, he always has been labled as having potential, and he has never stayed healthy for long periods of time. He has had around 17 starts this year and only 5 wins, not a high percentage of starts converted into wins. Until he learns to really pitch (mix speeds and locations) and not try to overpower all the time with his fastball, he is going to fall short of his potential for the rest of his career. I think it is time he was traded. Hopefully the farm has some ready talent to step in with Olsen and Vargas. WHat does everyone else think? Keep him or trade him?
July 15, 200521 yr Depends on whether or not you want to make the playoffs. I don't see Olsen and Vargas taking the Marlins there this season. 856386[/snapback] Get a bullpen and get the offense moving we should be ok. But why would you all of a sudden be on the "trade A.J." bandwagon after 1 bad outing. I agree with what you said about hit pitching method but this is how he's always been.
July 15, 200521 yr Author If AJ doesn't get a win in his next 2 starts, he'll have a 25% win percentage for the season. Having AJ keep that stat alive in the 2nd half isn't gonna carry the Marlins to the playoffs either
July 15, 200521 yr If AJ doesn't get a win in his next 2 starts, he'll have a 25% win percentage for the season. Having AJ keep that stat alive in the 2nd half isn't gonna carry the Marlins to the playoffs either 856389[/snapback] Hehe I have a feeling A.J. won't make two starts as a Marlin.
July 15, 200521 yr Author I don't see him staying after the season, and only 5 wins in all those starts by this point in the season is not a good stat. If other teams are offering good deals, take it
July 15, 200521 yr Latest rumour is AJ+Leiter to the Yankees in return for Pavano. Problem being Pavs has 31million on his contract, the Marlins would only pay what they offered 3/21million. Other rumour is to Sox for Arroyo. Source is the Miami Herald I believe.
July 15, 200521 yr The Pavano deal is tempting because it fortifies the team slightly for the long run. But if we can pick up Chacin and Wells with an AJ package, I feel like we get more and it would be worth it to just eat Leiter's money. EDIT: I'm pretty skeptical that we can deal with Toronto, because I don't see AJ agreeing to a long term deal there. But I stick with my scenario, if we can net a similar young pitcher/hitter duo.
July 15, 200521 yr Depends on whether or not you want to make the playoffs. I don't see Olsen and Vargas taking the Marlins there this season. 856386[/snapback] Get a bullpen and get the offense moving we should be ok. But why would you all of a sudden be on the "trade A.J." bandwagon after 1 bad outing. I agree with what you said about hit pitching method but this is how he's always been. 856388[/snapback] I agree, one outing good or bad shouldn't really affect what camp you are in with AJ at this point.
July 15, 200521 yr I think the main objective of any AJ trade has to be to secure a solid starter to replace him the rest of the year and for at least a few years to come. Of course, if gary sheffield is involved, that all goes out the window...
July 15, 200521 yr The problem with AJ is that you have to get the feeling that the trade talk is affecting him mentally. We need to either trade him now or telll him hes staying. We can't wait too long to deal b/c we need help now, last year we waited too long and had we dont a trade sooner we may have had a better shot of making the playoffs.
July 15, 200521 yr AJ loses and we start a "trade him" thread but if he wins, then it's a "keep AJ" thread. :plain
July 15, 200521 yr Depends on whether or not you want to make the playoffs. I don't see Olsen and Vargas taking the Marlins there this season. 856386[/snapback] Playoffs are dimming more and more everyday. The Nats and Braves just lost 3 straight games and we made up 0 ground. The time to trade Burnett is NOW as his trade value is declining a bit. Juan, Lowell, and AJ all need to go.
July 15, 200521 yr Depends on whether or not you want to make the playoffs. I don't see Olsen and Vargas taking the Marlins there this season. 856386[/snapback] Playoffs are dimming more and more everyday. The Nats and Braves just lost 3 straight games and we made up 0 ground. The time to trade Burnett is NOW as his trade value is declining a bit. Juan, Lowell, and AJ all need to go. 856449[/snapback] I hope you mean Juan Enc becasue this team goes nowhere if we trade Pierre.
July 15, 200521 yr We better not be trading Lowell or JP.. Lowell is playing better ball all! Why do you all keep saying trade him? When someone is starting to turn it on you wanna now trade him off? If we do an AJ and Leitter for Pavano, cash and Gordon trade. I wouldnt be against it.
July 15, 200521 yr Unfortunately as the games go by it looks less and less likely that the Marlins are going to make the playoffs so I am in favor of trading Burnett. The guy is solid but I am curious why some although it apeears fewer and fewer believe the guy is a must keep player. While I think he is a nice number 3 starter for us his record isnt even that of a number 3 pitcher. Let him take the mound at least one more time hopefully have a good start then move him for the best deal. It looks like we are building for next year not making a run for this year...AS to Pavano not so sure I like that idea, he left Florida forwhatever reason no doubt money was a factor but if he really wanted to stay I think it would have been worked out , I would rather move in a different direction
July 15, 200521 yr Depends on whether or not you want to make the playoffs. I don't see Olsen and Vargas taking the Marlins there this season. 856386[/snapback] Get a bullpen and get the offense moving we should be ok. But why would you all of a sudden be on the "trade A.J." bandwagon after 1 bad outing. I agree with what you said about hit pitching method but this is how he's always been.856388[/snapback] But that certainly does not justify his not being able to improve from his mistakes. He looks like he is making the same mistakes every time he has an off night and believe it or not I am starting file him in my U file. U=uncoachable
July 15, 200521 yr I don't see him staying after the season, and only 5 wins in all those starts by this point in the season is not a good stat. If other teams are offering good deals, take it 856391[/snapback] We have to remember also that there is a run support issue too! A guy with 17 starts and only 5 wins and an era under 4 is a classic sign of poor run support.
July 15, 200521 yr Latest rumour is AJ+Leiter to the Yankees in return for Pavano. Problem being Pavs has 31million on his contract, the Marlins would only pay what they offered 3/21million. Other rumour is to Sox for Arroyo. Source is the Miami Herald I believe. 856399[/snapback] I read the Herald sports from cover to cover and even the ads and I haven't see either one of those rumors....
July 15, 200521 yr Author Depends on whether or not you want to make the playoffs. I don't see Olsen and Vargas taking the Marlins there this season. 856386[/snapback] Get a bullpen and get the offense moving we should be ok. But why would you all of a sudden be on the "trade A.J." bandwagon after 1 bad outing. I agree with what you said about hit pitching method but this is how he's always been. 856388[/snapback] I agree, one outing good or bad shouldn't really affect what camp you are in with AJ at this point. 856404[/snapback] But it can make you see the light. I used to think he would be a part of this rotation for most of the rest of his career because of his potential. But last night reminded me of how he has been his whole career. For all the promise he shows, he is not even a career .500 pitcher, and he has only 5 wins in all of his starts (those 2 things have started to make me think that this tells you something about AJ). His maturity has always been an issue (see the game where he blow up after Lowell's 2 errors), and I think that will keep him from turning the corner to being an elite pitcher who wins 16-18 games a year. Last night made me think that what we saw last night might be as far as he goes in terms of how good his career is and will be.
July 15, 200521 yr Depends on whether or not you want to make the playoffs. I don't see Olsen and Vargas taking the Marlins there this season. 856386[/snapback] Get a bullpen and get the offense moving we should be ok. But why would you all of a sudden be on the "trade A.J." bandwagon after 1 bad outing. I agree with what you said about hit pitching method but this is how he's always been.856388[/snapback] But that certainly does not justify his not being able to improve from his mistakes. He looks like he is making the same mistakes every time he has an off night and believe it or not I am starting file him in my U file. U=uncoachable 856465[/snapback] He makes the same mistakes when he has a great outing. But his stuff his just that filthy that he doesn't really need to perfect in location or mix his pitches up so much he confuses Einstien, that no hitter is a perfect example of it. And I agree he is uncoachable, kinda figured that out when he came off the DL. He's got that "My stuff is unhitable" mentality and it can kill him. He is stubborn and thickheaded and at times those can be good, but he's not acting those at good times. Honestly if healthy he has the stuff to be another Roger Clemens or Schilling, but he can not be those if he doesn't learn how to really "pitch". You can be great relying on your stuff, but he can be amazing if he learns to use it to its full effectivness.
July 15, 200521 yr Author I don't see him staying after the season, and only 5 wins in all those starts by this point in the season is not a good stat.? If other teams are offering good deals, take it 856391[/snapback] We have to remember also that there is a run support issue too! A guy with 17 starts and only 5 wins and an era under 4 is a classic sign of poor run support. 856468[/snapback] Dontrelle hasn't had a lot of problems winning games with low run support. Can someone find out how many runs he gets per game?
July 15, 200521 yr Author Depends on whether or not you want to make the playoffs. I don't see Olsen and Vargas taking the Marlins there this season. 856386[/snapback] Get a bullpen and get the offense moving we should be ok. But why would you all of a sudden be on the "trade A.J." bandwagon after 1 bad outing. I agree with what you said about hit pitching method but this is how he's always been.856388[/snapback] But that certainly does not justify his not being able to improve from his mistakes. He looks like he is making the same mistakes every time he has an off night and believe it or not I am starting file him in my U file. U=uncoachable 856465[/snapback] He makes the same mistakes when he has a great outing. But his stuff his just that filthy that he doesn't really need to perfect in location or mix his pitches up so much he confuses Einstien, that no hitter is a perfect example of it. And I agree he is uncoachable, kinda figured that out when he came off the DL. He's got that "My stuff is unhitable" mentality and it can kill him. He is stubborn and thickheaded and at times those can be good, but he's not acting those at good times. Honestly if healthy he has the stuff to be another Roger Clemens or Schilling, but he can not be those if he doesn't learn how to really "pitch". You can be great relying on your stuff, but he can be amazing if he learns to use it to its full effectivness. 856476[/snapback] BINGO Like I said, it's his maturity that holds him back. I'm starting to think he'll never learn. The look on his face giving up 3 homers in an inning was like, "How can this be? My fastball is unhitable!" He's in love with his fastball. His other stuff is nasty and while he did throw other pitchers, I thought he could have mixed his pitchers up more.
July 15, 200521 yr I don't see him staying after the season, and only 5 wins in all those starts by this point in the season is not a good stat.? If other teams are offering good deals, take it 856391[/snapback] We have to remember also that there is a run support issue too! A guy with 17 starts and only 5 wins and an era under 4 is a classic sign of poor run support. 856468[/snapback] Dontrelle hasn't had a lot of problems winning games with low run support. Can someone find out how many runs he gets per game? 856477[/snapback] Thats an easy one to explain......................Dontrelle is a better pitcher than AJ this year. he can get away with it and also Dontrelle's era is just about 2 I believe. That's a huge difference.
July 15, 200521 yr the times AJ has been really effective this season are when he used all his pitches and didnt try to strike out every batter. exactly what dontrelle does. lets them put the bat on the ball and has great location. AJ deserved to have those bombs hit off him last night. he was laying cheese right down the middle. and when Mike Lieberthal is taking you deep you know your not throwing the right pitch.
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