Ray McNulty: Marlins deserve better market

By Ray McNulty

sports columnist

September 27, 2005

 

For the third consecutive year, the Florida Marlins are playing meaningful baseball in September.

 

So Jeffrey Loria has stayed true to his word.

 

 

Advertisement

 

 

 

 

When he showed up in South Florida four years ago as the Marlins new owner, Loria came with a reputation as a carpetbagger and a promise that seemed to be as empty as the ballpark in which his team played.

 

He said he believed in this market. He pledged to put a competitive team on the field. He vowed to resurrect a franchise that Wayne Huizenga had left for dead in 1998, when the waste-management magnate coldly dismantled the high-priced roster that produced a World Series triumph in 1997.

 

But nobody believed him ? not after seeing what happened in Montreal, where Loria bailed out on the Expos, bought the Marlins and appeared to have traded a failed franchise for a failing one.

 

And, really, nobody cared.

 

There were plenty of baseball fans in the region, which stretches from Florida's Treasure Coast to the Florida Keys. There just weren't many Marlins fans.

 

That was the challenge that greeted Loria upon his arrival.

 

Four years, three winning seasons and one world championship later, Loria still is confronted by the same challenge.

 

There might be more Marlins fans now than ever before ? the team's TV ratings the past three seasons have been steadily rising and, having achieved unprecedented heights this season, constitute the best such span in the franchise's 13-year history ? but they're not coming to the ballpark.

 

Despite being in playoff contention throughout the season, the Marlins entered Monday night's first pitch at Dolphins Stadium averaging 23,128 spectators through their first 75 home games. They rank 15th in the 16-team National League in attendance. And unless something changes drastically this week, they will finish in that same spot for the sixth time in the past seven years. (They ranked 14th last season.)

 

Only three teams in the major leagues, in fact, were averaging smaller home crowds: Pittsburgh (23,105), Kansas City (17,356) and Tampa Bay (13,985).

 

All three are in last place in their divisions. All three were out of the playoff chase before the All-Star break.

 

Worse, the Marlins' attendance numbers trailed those of also-ran teams in Milwaukee (25,772), Detroit (25,709), Arizona (25,423), Toronto (24,696), Cincinnati (23,989) and Colorado (23,994). And the disappointing turnout in Miami is occurring at a time when Major League Baseball is on the verge of setting an all-time attendance record.

 

The New York Yankees, by comparison, drew more than 4 million fans to the Bronx this season, averaging 50,499 for their 81 home dates in a city with two major league teams.

 

So maybe Loria was wrong.

 

Maybe putting a competitive team on the field isn't enough. Maybe folks in these parts don't care enough about baseball ? or the Marlins, anyway ? to come to the ballpark, no matter what he does. Maybe he believed in something that won't ever happen.

 

Let's face it: If you can't embrace this team, which plays a fun-to-watch brand of baseball and features young stars like Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera and Josh Beckett, you're not much of a fan.

 

Fans in Baltimore or Seattle or Denver would pack the place to cheer for a team of this caliber.

 

So would fans in Las Vegas ... but we'll get there in a moment.

 

Fans in South Florida, however, have done nothing to show that they want a major league baseball team. They have done nothing to demonstrate that they can, or will, support one. And, quite frankly, they've done little to prove that they deserve one.

 

Look, South Florida is a lousy sports market. People buy tickets only when it becomes the trendy thing to do, when the ballpark or the stadium or the arena become THE PLACE to be seen.

 

Fact is, nobody much cared about the Miami Heat until Shaq came to town. Similarly, nobody paid any attention to the Florida Panthers until they played their way to the Stanley Cup Finals in 1996 ? and only a small, cult-type following still goes to their games. And now, after missing the playoffs the past couple of seasons, even the Miami Dolphins are playing in front of too many empty seats.

 

It shouldn't surprise anyone, then, that South Florida shows up at the ballpark only when the Marlins are in the playoffs.

 

Would building one of those glitzy, new, retractable-roof ballparks help?

 

Loria thinks so.

 

But, really, it depends where they build it.

 

Building such a facility adjacent to the Orange Bowl ? that's the current plan ? would be a huge mistake. The site is too far from the Palm Beaches, which provide a sizeable chunk of the team's ticket base, and too inconvenient to get to. If the Marlins put a new ballpark there, they'll lose almost everyone north of Boca Raton because the rush-hour drive on Interstate 95 would be a nightmare. And that doesn't include the neighborhood traffic around the stadium.

 

Fortunately, that plan is on death's door.

 

Unfortunately, there's no Plan B.

 

Which means the Marlins, who probably would survive in South Florida if a new ballpark could be built somewhere near the Broward-Palm Beach county line, might soon be playing under the bright lights in the desert.

 

Not only is Las Vegas one of America's fastest-growing cities, but it's also a market that's hungry for major league baseball ? so hungry that, given the opportunity, the people there wouldn't hesitate to build a state-of-the-art ballpark, then fill it.

 

So maybe that's where the Marlins should go.

 

The way they've played the past three seasons, they deserve better. They deserve to be wanted and loved and appreciated. And that hasn't happened here.

 

Loria kept his promise. He put a competitive team on the field. He gave South Florida every reason to go to the ballpark.

 

But nobody cared enough to come.

 

So maybe Loria was wrong.

 

Maybe Huizenga was right.

 

 

 

It's not even fair to compare the Yankees attendance with the Marlins.

 

The stadium in the Broward-Palm Beach countyline thing is just retarded.

 

He states ratings are at new highs and then says they have no fans. WTF?

 

http://www.tcpalm.com/tcp/marlins/article/...4111959,00.html

(requires registration)

This writer has written articles bashing the Marlins for quite sometime. He always compares the Marlins to the Yankees and Red Sox. Like you siad MEH.

This is probably the dumbest idea but I always wondered why they dont make a survey and see who would go to the games if the stadium is here or there blah blah.. Just to see how many season ticket holders there will be and who would go to the games. I know if the stadium was near the Broward/ PBC border I would get the 41 game plan

 

I know many people who live in Palm Beach and Coral Springs that wont be getting season tix anymore if they move to the Orange Bowl site. As long as the Marlins are in S. Fla I will be happy

He compared them to the Pirates, Royals, Devil Rays, Brewers, Tigers, D-Backs, Jays, Reds, and Rockies though too. Can't ignore that. It is amazing that the Marlins are outdrawn by those many teams some of which are lousy. Just looking at the Yankees comparison is not being fair. He used that more as a way to back up his statement of MLB attendance as a whole setting records this year. Fact the facts this article isn't meh. He is right in what he said and it's the truth. The fans that go to the games are good fans but there are not many of them and there should be.

Isn't the fact that ratings are through the roof show we have a fanbase out there?

Isn't the fact that ratings are through the roof show we have a fanbase out there?

 

 

he''s a biased journalist.. he's not going to put that into his article, in fact he may be too ignorant to even understand it.

Isn't the fact that ratings are through the roof show we have a fanbase out there?

 

 

he''s a biased journalist.. he's not going to put that into his article, in fact he may be too ignorant to even understand it.

 

 

And you are bias readers because he clearly did say it:

 

There might be more Marlins fans now than ever before ? the team's TV ratings the past three seasons have been steadily rising and, having achieved unprecedented heights this season, constitute the best such span in the franchise's 13-year history ? but they're not coming to the ballpark.

 

The whole point is they aren't going to the ballpark to see a winning team yet people are going to the ballpark to see losing teams in other cities.

The increasing fan base that doesn't go to the park just adds credence to the belief the weather has a large affect on attendance.

Jeez,

 

Here we go again. Someone writes and article THAT TELLS THE TRUTH about the fan support, and everybody gets into a hissyfit because they don't like it. So what that he used the Yankees as a comparison? Like another poster said, he pointed out several sorry teams that were basically eliminated on Opening Day yet are whipping us at the gate. And save the tired excuses about 1998, weather, location, etc. Yes, the fans on this board are passionate, but that's not representative of South Florida in general.

 

I think its funny that the bad attendance defenders said all year that Loria was happy with the tiny rise in attendance over the past couple of years. That and saying Miami-Broward is "small area" population wise when justifying bad attendance but then including Palm Beach when its to justify putting stadium closer to PBC. Attendance detractors (such as myself), know business when they see it. Now, all of a sudden that the season is lost, you hear reports and rumblings that Loria is losing money and that salary adjustments have to be made, lack of stadium, etc. No kidding, folks - bad attendance means bad profits, regardless of stadium lease. Yes, if the team had made the playoffs the bandwagon would have got started and the extra $$$ would have piled in. But playoff appearances aren't guaranted to anyone (except NYY and ATL), so one would be foolish to base your budget on the hope that you make it in.

 

Sure the TV Ratings are higher than before, but if one thinks about it and looks behind the numbers, it would have to be obvious. South Florida doesn't trust the Marlins (despite winning 2 WS's) because of the constant whining about $$$ and stadium, and threats to move. What better way to follow the team closely every day (watching on TV thus higher ratings) instead of giving the Marlins your cash (showing up in the seats) if you don't trust them. Therefore, I wouldn't get so excited that TV ratings are high.

 

Sorry, most places that start to win (or win a championship) after losing have bigger attendance jumps than we do and go over 2 million every year, not creeping up 100,000 at a time. I use Cleveland as a good example. Before Jacobs Field, the Indians were notorious losers for decades, rarely if ever drawing even a 1,000,000 fans and always playing in front of 5,000 at old Municipal Stadium. Cleveland fans abandoned their team after the mid 90's glory years to the point where the team was wallowing in the sub 2 million neighborhood with us. After having an season attendance average in the 17,000's in May, the fans have come back to now where they're averaging 24,000+. Whether they win the World Series or not this year, the Indians will draw 2.5+ plus in 2006 if they remain competitive, not have an "increase" of 100-200,000 and jump for joy thinking that's something to be proud of. And can't use Jacobs Field as an excuse for their higher attendance. The "new stadium" aura wore off a long time ago and didn't help the Indians not play in front of flies the past couple of seasons.

 

Do I want the Marlins to leave? Heck no. But South Florida (All 3 counties at 5+ million plus) in general is going to start having to show up in respectable numbers, so that $$$, stadium, attendance aren't discussed every day in the media and sports talk shows more than the play in the field is.

This is all easy to understand. The Marlins DO have a good fan base, judging from the TV ratings, but that base doesn't attend enough games. Why? I think it's because:

1) The threat of rain delays;

2) The fact that DS is one of the worst baseball parks inMLB;

3) The current location is lousy; it's a trek for almost everyone;

 

But things will only get worse if the Orange Bowl location is chosen.

1)The fan base outside Miami-Dade will never attend, given the traffic and other concerns.

2)The Miami-Dade portion of the fan base is probably only about half of the fans,.

3)Once the newness factor wears off, attendance would be dismal; a losing Heat team had trouble drawing fans in their beautiful new government-subsidized arena in the pre-Shaq era. The Orange Bowl location is too inconvenient to draw the "after work" crowd that goes to Downtown stadiums, and we don't have the corporate base to sell, and fill with clients and prospects, the luxury suites in the new park.

So, unfortunately, it looks like the writer has a good point; the failure of local government to help the Marlins come up with a Downtown location, or to propose any feasible alternative, puts the future of baseball in South Florida in jeopardy. I don't think we'll lose the Marlins anytime soon, but I think Loria will stop throwing away money, and the team will slowlly become worse, like the Expos did under Loria when Montreal wouldn't fund a new park and attendance kept falling.

Even though McNulty is a hack job who works for a bush league paper like The Stuart News (I've had my run-ins with the editors of that paper back in the day when I worked for the Martin County Board of County Commissioners), but his article is correct.

 

The South Florida Fan Base sucks, no bones about it. They "support" the team as long as it doesn't cost them any money, as long as they don't have to drive more than 10 miles, as long as they don't have to be outside, etc. etc. etc. Do you see my point? The population in this metro area expends more energy complaining about things than actually doing things.

 

And don't give me this crap about losing "half" the fan base here or there depending on where the stadium is built. If the team is not "guaranteed" a playoff birth NOBODY will go and they'll continue to average a pathetic 22,000 a game whether the stadium is in Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, West Palm Beach, Boynton Beach, Sunrise, Tamarac, Weston, Kendall, or Miami Gardens. Case in point, the Florida Panthers. They got their arena where their so-called fan base wanted it and they can't draw flies because they're not winning.

 

So aside from this small little enclave of fans on this board, the rest of South Florida could care two-sh!ts about the Marlins. Face it, as much as I love the Marlins, this metropolitan area really doesn't deserve baseball.

Even though McNulty is a hack job who works for a bush league paper like The Stuart News (I've had my run-ins with the editors of that paper back in the day when I worked for the Martin County Board of County Commissioners), but his article is correct.

 

The South Florida Fan Base sucks, no bones about it. They "support" the team as long as it doesn't cost them any money, as long as they don't have to drive more than 10 miles, as long as they don't have to be outside, etc. etc. etc. Do you see my point? The population in this metro area expends more energy complaining about things than actually doing things.

 

And don't give me this crap about losing "half" the fan base here or there depending on where the stadium is built. If the team is not "guaranteed" a playoff birth NOBODY will go and they'll continue to average a pathetic 22,000 a game whether the stadium is in Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, West Palm Beach, Boynton Beach, Sunrise, Tamarac, Weston, Kendall, or Miami Gardens. Case in point, the Florida Panthers. They got their arena where their so-called fan base wanted it and they can't draw flies because they're not winning.

 

So aside from this small little enclave of fans on this board, the rest of South Florida could care two-sh!ts about the Marlins. Face it, as much as I love the Marlins, this metropolitan area really doesn't deserve baseball.

 

 

I find the points you make very hard to refute. I think it's a sports thing in general here, even the Dolphins are finding it difficult to sell out.

1. Admittedly attendance sucks for the Marlins. But as has been pointed out that doesn't mean the team doesn't have fans. TV ratings are higher than ever. As we know the current stadium has its problems and the Marlins give away their product on TV for free.

 

2. A NY comparison is ridiculous because they have 100 yrs of history and 5 times the population.

 

3. Notice some of the other markets that were mentioned in the article: Pirates (new stadium), Tigers (new stadium), Reds (new stadium), Rockies (new stadium), Blue Jays (one of the oldest of the new stadiums, still a retractable roof and downtown location). A lot of these places had bad attendance before they got their new parks.

 

4. Forget a Broward or PBC location. There's no desire in those areas to spend public funds on it. Besides I don't know what planet some of you live on but southbound traffic into Miami-Dade county on weekdays is a lot lighter than northbound traffic. As it is, it takes me an hour to get from myy south beach office to DS. I used to live and work in broward when I had heat season tickets in the early 90's and can tell you it's easier for broward residents to get to dade than for dade residents to get to broward on weekday evenings. All I hear is a bunch of sour grapes from broward residents because they want the stadium 2 minutes from them. (forget the fact that a good proportion of them work in dade).

 

5. People will come from farther away to attend a Marlins game in the new stadium because a dome is a guarantee of comfort and no rain delays.

 

6. Comparing the Heat in their down years to the Marlins attendance isn't any good because a. there are less heat fans (see the South Florida Business Journal Survey on Sports fans) b. the price of a basketball game is much higher than baseball.

It helps attendance when you play the Red Sox and Yankees for 18-19 home games.

Great point, if the Marlins were in the AL east they'd have a lot higher attendance. But the reality is that it would be for the wrong reasons. At least now we have some people that still like their Yankees but don't necessarily hate the Marlins and might even go and support them a few times a year.

I agree with your previous points.

I believe that the main problem with the small fan base is an age issue. A generational thing. Our initial base when the team started was either too old, too interested in their "old" teams, or just not interested enough. This is something I realized in 1997, when Livan Hernandez was going for his 10th straight win in August, on a talented team headed for the playoffs, on a day with perfect weather, and there were 12000 people in the stands. So much for a hispanic base, New York base, or any base.

.

.

The Marlins need 20-30 years for a generational base to develop. We need to wait for our younger members on this site to grow up, get married, and have children. We need to wait to wait for our older members, like me, have our children get older. My son is 17. He's a Marlins fan. Been at the games since he was 6. But it's still going to be at least 10 years until he has children of his own to bring to the games. I do think that the population in the area has been drifting north....to points even above Palm Beach. The future here in South Florida is not downtown Miami. It's Broward to Palm Beach on a major expressway, like where Joe Robbie is. Maybe a little north. There is no site that will be convenient to get to for all, but that is the most convenient place for the most people, especially looking 10 years out.

Taking a look at the big picture, the Marlins should be satisfied with the increase in attendance this year considering:

• The team underperformed most of the year
  
• Ticket prices increased 25-50%
  
• The team was out of the playoff race by mid-September
  
• The weather in South Florida stinks
  

If the team fields another competitive team next year, plus performs to their ability under a new manager and coaching staff, expect attendance to have a nice jump.

The NL East is the best place for the Marlins, bar none.

 

Playing in the AL East would not be the answer. Yes, the Marlins would get to play 18 home games with guaranteed attendance over 30,000, but that's it. Competing daily with 2 of the richest teams on the planet with our cheapskate budget? It would be 3rd place every year at best with no hope for a playoff spot. Yes, we beat the Yankees in the 2003 World Series, but a 6-game set is not the same as a seaon long march. After a while, the thrill of playing the Yanks and Red Sox would wear off and be replaced by the lack of excitement (for the typical South Florida sports fan) for annual 3rd place finishes.

 

Yes, the Devil Rays have had serious management and PR issues, but more often than not, games against NYY and BOS the past couple of years were pulling in the 15-25,000 range, not 40,000 SRO's.

It's too simplistic to say that people are moving north and therefore the stadium should be north. For one thing Miami-Dade continues to grow (south towards homstead and west towards the glades). Also there's a lot of Dade residents that are moving back east to long forgotten neighborhoods because of the housing crunch. And as I posted before tons of people LIVE in Broward and points north but continue to WORK in Miami-Dade. Since 2/3 of the games are held on weekday evenings I think it's better to be near where people work. That's why all the new ballparks are closer to the commercial centers than the burbs. An additional advantage is that in the evening heavy traffic patterns are moving away from the commercial center allowing an easier commute in. Again I lived in Coconut Creek and worked in Plantation when I was a Heat season ticket holder in the early 90's. As I sped down to the Miami Arena, the traffic in the other direction was a parking lot. I understand that fans in Broward want to have the stadium nearby (but not too close, wouldn't want to lower those property values) but until they come to the table with $200 Million it just ain't gonna happen.

 

 

I agree that there hasn't been a lot of time for the Marlins to develop a loyal fanbase. Our community of 4 Million is made up largely of transplants that have been here for a wide range of years. I also want to point out that since the Marlins were established there has been a couple of starts and stops. Marlins attendance was pretty high those first 1.5 seasons and then there was the player strike. That kind of took the wind out of the Marlins sales. Then of course the debacle of the 1998 "defending world champions". The stadium situation needs to be resolved one way or another for people to invest emotionally and literally in thise team.

 

My theory is that HWH is going to get Loria to invest his $192 Million (that he committed in rent to the City/County) in Dolphins stadium. There will be some sort of change to the seating (pivoting seats down the lines) and a retractable roof. The roof is something Wayne has been talking about already. The only other thing would be to add some sort of field turf to the infield when the Dolphins play. I don't know why they don't do it now considering that they do it in a small part of the West end zone.