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Teal Shadow
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years? Did this team get stale after the 03' season to you? Where did that Marlin way go? Was it McKeon? Was it the players? Was a change needed....a complete change?

 

I personally didn't enjoy the last two season as much as the 03' that never say die attitude die at Yankees stadium after they won it all IMO. Sometimes change is good, I'm all for it as long as the talent is ML ready and gives us a fighting chance

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Agreed. Go for young, cheap and talented players. Get rid of Lowell before he compromises Girardi's authority. It may not make us World Series contenders as the 2005 team was to be, but it will keep us in the race and from taking unneccessary financial and evalutation risks on free agents.

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I thought that to be successful in '06, the team simply needed anyone but McKeon...now, I think the team needs to free itself of Beinfest. I can only read about so many lop-sided trade proposals before I seriously question the man's ability. We had the Derrek Lee for Conine, the Burnett fiascos, and now the Beckett proposal. Seriously, I've had enough of Beinfest, I'm fine with watching the team. Do changes need to be made? Sure, but we don't need to give players away. Find me one Ranger fan who thinks they're the ones getting swindled.

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I don't have a huge problem with a youth movement in 2006 involving MLB ready players with a look towards competing in 2007. Giving guys like Hermida, Willingham/Aguila, Vargas, Olsen/Johnson, and Resop larger roles in 2006 is fine with me.

 

However, trading Beckett isn't necessary for this to happen.

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I don't have a huge problem with a youth movement in 2006 involving MLB ready players with a look towards competing in 2007. Giving guys like Hermida, Willingham/Aguila, Vargas, Olsen/Johnson, and Resop larger roles in 2006 is fine with me.

 

However, trading Beckett isn't necessary for this to happen.

 

 

Took the WORDS RIGHT OUT OF MY MOUTH!!

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I don't have a huge problem with a youth movement in 2006 involving MLB ready players with a look towards competing in 2007. Giving guys like Hermida, Willingham/Aguila, Vargas, Olsen/Johnson, and Resop larger roles in 2006 is fine with me.

 

However, trading Beckett isn't necessary for this to happen.

 

 

 

How do you know that? I would think they tried everything and anything to move Lowell contract without trading a Beckett to no avail. Thats why not moving Lowell last summer could have cost us Beckett this offseason.

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I don't have a huge problem with a youth movement in 2006 involving MLB ready players with a look towards competing in 2007. Giving guys like Hermida, Willingham/Aguila, Vargas, Olsen/Johnson, and Resop larger roles in 2006 is fine with me.

 

However, trading Beckett isn't necessary for this to happen.

 

 

 

How do you know that? I would think they tried everything and anything to move Lowell contract without trading a Beckett to no avail. Thats why not moving Lowell last summer could have cost us Beckett this offseason.

Because replacing Enc with Hermida saves around 4 mil, Conine with Willingham/Aguila around 2 mil, trading Delgado for prospects earning the minimum would save around 13 mil, trading Pierre for prospects around 5 mil, Lo Duca for prospects around 6 mil, etc.

 

I do agree with you, though, that not moving Lowell then could be a main reason for having to move Beckett now.

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I agree with Shadow on this one...watching the team the last two years, I had the same feeling. Something only works so long in baseball before change is needed. Trading Peirre, if they plan on keeping Castillo makes sense. Do we really need one of the two batting seventh? How many of us will truly miss the Mike Lowell of the past year and a half? Anyone want to watch more Encarnacion, Gonzalez (although I think his defense will be missed should he not return)? I have no problem at all with major changes. While I don't want to trade away Beckett or Delgado, as long as the trade bring in players who will be ready to step in and contribute, I will be fine with it.

 

I also think a lot of people are underestimating Hank Blalock. He had a down year last year, but is still a very good hitter. His problem was that he tried to hit everything out of the park last year instead of being the line drive hitter he is. If he can return to that form, he'd likely be a nice fit in DS.

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I thought that to be successful in '06, the team simply needed anyone but McKeon...now, I think the team needs to free itself of Beinfest. I can only read about so many lop-sided trade proposals before I seriously question the man's ability. We had the Derrek Lee for Conine, the Burnett fiascos, and now the Beckett proposal. Seriously, I've had enough of Beinfest, I'm fine with watching the team. Do changes need to be made? Sure, but we don't need to give players away. Find me one Ranger fan who thinks they're the ones getting swindled.

 

Beinfest is doing a fine job. None of the offers for Burnett were worth crap anyway at the deadline. The White Sox "offer" was nice, but I have serious doubts whether they would've gone through with that. The guy has been incredibly savvy on the free agent market. Picking up low priced contributors. (Jones, Benitez, Easley, Moehler, etc...) Not sure what you are referring too with Derek Lee for Conine. I too am not that thrilled about the Beckett offer, but let's not overreact before it happens.

 

I've never been Beinfest's biggest fan, (for those of you around when the Lo Duca-Penny deal went down know that) but he's better than 75% of the GM. Beinfest did a terrific job in 2003 of building that team, and I feel pretty good about having him as the GM if we decide to rebuild.

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I thought that to be successful in '06, the team simply needed anyone but McKeon...now, I think the team needs to free itself of Beinfest. I can only read about so many lop-sided trade proposals before I seriously question the man's ability. We had the Derrek Lee for Conine, the Burnett fiascos, and now the Beckett proposal. Seriously, I've had enough of Beinfest, I'm fine with watching the team. Do changes need to be made? Sure, but we don't need to give players away. Find me one Ranger fan who thinks they're the ones getting swindled.

 

Beinfest is doing a fine job. None of the offers for Burnett were worth crap anyway at the deadline. The White Sox "offer" was nice, but I have serious doubts whether they would've gone through with that. The guy has been incredibly savvy on the free agent market. Picking up low priced contributors. (Jones, Benitez, Easley, Moehler, etc...) Not sure what you are referring too with Derek Lee for Conine. I too am not that thrilled about the Beckett offer, but let's not overreact before it happens.

 

I've never been Beinfest's biggest fan, (for those of you around when the Lo Duca-Penny deal went down know that) but he's better than 75% of the GM. Beinfest did a terrific job in 2003 of building that team, and I feel pretty good about having him as the GM if we decide to rebuild.

 

I was referring to rumors that surfaced during the '03 season near Jeff Conine bobble-head day that Beinfest had contacted the Orioles about a one for one swap of Jeff Conine for Derrek Lee. God only knows why that one didn't get done.

 

I recall your anger regarding the Penny trade, as I believe most of the board felt and still feels that a player with the potential of Penny should have brought more.

 

As for Beinfest overseeing the rebuilding...I'm not so sure about that. He hasn't gotten a blue chip position player since Hermida, and in every trade that it seems we've had proposed since the deadline, all he wants is young pitching in return...let alone that he drafted 5 high ceilinged starters; enough is enough. He's been very poor at addressing areas of team weakness (up the middle and behind the plate) through the draft, and he's yet to make me feel that his "successful trades" were much more than him getting lucky.

 

He felt that Adrian Gonzalez was more expendable than Jason Stokes, he felt that Justin Wayne was the key to the Floyd deal, not Pavano, and he fixates on one team when making trades instead of allowing multiple teams to get in on the bidding. With AJ, it was Baltimore or no one. I'll reserve comments until the Beckett trade is consumated, or fades away...and God, I pray for the latter.

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he felt that Justin Wayne was the key to the Floyd deal, not Pavano

 

That was more of a Loria thing than a Beinfest thing I believe.

 

If memory serves, Loria wanted Pavano because he was the first player he gave a contract extension to, and Wayne because he was the first player given a signing bonus.

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I don't have a huge problem with a youth movement in 2006 involving MLB ready players with a look towards competing in 2007. Giving guys like Hermida, Willingham/Aguila, Vargas, Olsen/Johnson, and Resop larger roles in 2006 is fine with me.

 

However, trading Beckett isn't necessary for this to happen.

 

 

 

How do you know that? I would think they tried everything and anything to move Lowell contract without trading a Beckett to no avail. Thats why not moving Lowell last summer could have cost us Beckett this offseason.

Yes but last year we were comparing our linup with the Cards and we thought we were WS contenders

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I don't have a huge problem with a youth movement in 2006 involving MLB ready players with a look towards competing in 2007. Giving guys like Hermida, Willingham/Aguila, Vargas, Olsen/Johnson, and Resop larger roles in 2006 is fine with me.

 

However, trading Beckett isn't necessary for this to happen.

 

 

 

How do you know that? I would think they tried everything and anything to move Lowell contract without trading a Beckett to no avail. Thats why not moving Lowell last summer could have cost us Beckett this offseason.

Yes but last year we were comparing our linup with the Cards and we thought we were WS contenders

And so did everybody else in baseball. The consensus pick for the NLCS was Marlins and Cards.

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