From a chat posted on ESPN...

 

Eddie NYC: What would you say was the best trade of the offseason was? What would you say would have been the worst deal had the rumor actually been reality?

 

Jim Callis: (2:16 PM ET ) Best: The Carlos Delgado (to the Mets) and Josh Beckett (to the Red Sox) deals, because two contenders got impact big leaguers for nothing of current big league value. The worst probably would have been any of the Manny Ramirez rumors that floated around.

 

ouch.

Well he did say current value, not just value although I'd debate that anyway because Jacobs has shown something at the ML level already.

Well it's true, they didn't give up anything that figured to be a huge impact in 2006, aside from Jacobs, who's impact is debateable.

 

The trades are more about what it does for '07 & '08 than what it does for '06.

Callis is an idiot. Jacobs has good major league value. I wonder if he's even watched the kid play. I would suggest you all watch 30-40 of Jacobs's at-bats last season. You will become convinced that he's going to be a great player. And not just in the future. He's going to be a legitimate rookie of the year candidate. Go ask any Mets fan what they think of Jacobs and you'll see what I am talking about. Crasnick in the other chat says that Jacobs will probably not be more of a platoon player. These guys like to act like they know what they're talking about, but they don't.

 

I just love the divide between the "scouts" and the sabremetrics guys. Jacobs is the second best first base prospect according to Baseball Prospectus and Willingham is supposed to be the second best catching prospect. These guys can hit.

Not to say that Jacobs doesn't have a productive future, but he is not on the same level as Hermida or Fielder.

 

The consensus among the experts is that Jacobs is a flawed player. Even Baseball America, who is pretty objective in their analysis deems him below average defensively with a swing that can get very long at times.

 

A one dimensional offensive player who was tearing up AA at 25 is not something to hang your hat on as the next big thing.

 

I hope he proves me wrong, but don't hold your breath.

I wish you would do a bit more research before posting stupid things. Jacobs first tore up AA pitching as a 22 year old. .329/.548/.924 That was in 2003. He got injured in 2004 and basically missed the entire season. He then played in AA in 2005 again because the Mets had a bunch of catchers and first basemen in AAA that would take at-bats away from him. He continued to tear up AA in 2005. When he got the big leagues, he posted .310/.710/.1085 in 100 at bats. He did that as a 24 year old, not 25 as you say. That's not old in the least bit. He also missed the season when he was a 20 year old. So this guy has had his development slowed by two major injuries. Give the man a break.

 

By the way, I think he probably isn't on the same level as Prince Fielder or Hermida, but I think he's damn close.

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/J/mike-jacobs-1.shtml

Not to say that Jacobs doesn't have a productive future, but he is not on the same level as Hermida or Fielder.

 

The consensus among the experts is that Jacobs is a flawed player. Even Baseball America, who is pretty objective in their analysis deems him below average defensively with a swing that can get very long at times.

 

A one dimensional offensive player who was tearing up AA at 25 is not something to hang your hat on as the next big thing.

 

I hope he proves me wrong, but don't hold your breath.

 

 

 

agreed completely with you Tswift

What I find hilarious, as I mentioned in another thread, was how high Mets fans were on Mike Jacobs (ditto Petit) until they were traded. I was perusing for stuff on Jacobs yesterday, one Mets fan site (don't remember which) had month by month list of top searchs and guess who was repeatedly number one, two or three? Mikey.

 

Mets boards were filled last summer with demands that their minor league hero Mike Jacobs be called up and then exploded when he was brought up and produced in the last seven weeks of the season.

 

But now...ehhh...

 

Callis has no love for the Marlins generally or even guys like Hermida who he thinks will underwhelm. He admittedly doesn't like Jacobs and has said so numerous times, but here's his initial thoughts on the Beckett/Delgado trades:

 

"Greg (Miami): Jim, Be kind to a Marlins fan and answer my question! From a purely baseball standpoint, are the Marlins getting good value in thier deals? What do you project for Jacobs, Petit, Ramirez, and Anibel Sanchez? Thanks!

 

SportsNation Jim Callis: Yes, from a baseball standpoint, they are getting value. In the Carlos Delgado deal, they're asking the Mets to take on $41 million, and they still got a solid pitching prospect (Yusmeiro Petit) and an interesting bat (Mike Jacobs, though those of you who frequent these chats know I'm not the biggest Jacobs fan). In the Josh Beckett deal, they dumped $18 million in Mike Lowell, got the best SS prospect who was on the market (Hanley Ramirez), plus two quality righthanders (Anibal Sanchez, Jesus Delgado). Even though teams know they're looking to shed salary, they're doing pretty well."

it is idiotic to evaluate trades solely based on talent, and MLB experience. All factors should be considered (economics and short/long term impacts must be factored in).

 

This was a salary dump, but we didn't get rapped in the trades

I wish you would do a bit more research before posting stupid things. Jacobs first tore up AA pitching as a 22 year old. .329/.548/.924 That was in 2003. He got injured in 2004 and basically missed the entire season. He then played in AA in 2005 again because the Mets had a bunch of catchers and first basemen in AAA that would take at-bats away from him. He continued to tear up AA in 2005. When he got the big leagues, he posted .310/.710/.1085 in 100 at bats. He did that as a 24 year old, not 25 as you say. That's not old in the least bit. He also missed the season when he was a 20 year old. So this guy has had his development slowed by two major injuries. Give the man a break.

 

By the way, I think he probably isn't on the same level as Prince Fielder or Hermida, but I think he's damn close.

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/J/mike-jacobs-1.shtml

 

 

Just a side note, I've never seen someone quote stats as average/slugging/ops before. That would have been super sweet if Jacobs had a .548 OBP, .924 slugging, and a 1.400+ OPS in double AA.

 

You do bring up points about him raking at 22, and his injury issues, but a Hermida is this guy not. Jacobs has NOWHERE near the plate discipline Hermida has which is going to seriously effect his ceiling. Jeremy will have double the walks and less K per year then Jacobs for sure in a season or two when they are both firmly planted as starting players. Hermida is going to be a Berkman or Abreu superstar. Routine .300/.400/.550 seasons, with 25+ SB.

 

Thinking about Jacobs, I think I found a very good comparison for him as an offensive player. Geoff Jenkins. Career line of .280/.350/.500, lefty, with tons of strikeouts. What's perfect about Jacobs is he will never be asked to be anything more then the # 3 run producer on the team, which is ideal for him. He could make a very nice home batting in the 5th slot and routinely driving in 100+ for years with the OBP monsters of Cabrera and Hermida in front of him. I think he is a nice lefty compliment to the big two, but this crazy insane high ceiling prospect? No.

I think that's a pretty fair projection Lou.

I wish you would do a bit more research before posting stupid things. Jacobs first tore up AA pitching as a 22 year old. .329/.548/.924 That was in 2003. He got injured in 2004 and basically missed the entire season. He then played in AA in 2005 again because the Mets had a bunch of catchers and first basemen in AAA that would take at-bats away from him. He continued to tear up AA in 2005. When he got the big leagues, he posted .310/.710/.1085 in 100 at bats. He did that as a 24 year old, not 25 as you say. That's not old in the least bit. He also missed the season when he was a 20 year old. So this guy has had his development slowed by two major injuries. Give the man a break.

 

By the way, I think he probably isn't on the same level as Prince Fielder or Hermida, but I think he's damn close.

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/J/mike-jacobs-1.shtml

 

 

Just a side note, I've never seen someone quote stats as average/slugging/ops before. That would have been super sweet if Jacobs had a .548 OBP, .924 slugging, and a 1.400+ OPS in double AA.

 

You do bring up points about him raking at 22, and his injury issues, but a Hermida is this guy not. Jacobs has NOWHERE near the plate discipline Hermida has which is going to seriously effect his ceiling. Jeremy will have double the walks and less K per year then Jacobs for sure in a season or two when they are both firmly planted as starting players. Hermida is going to be a Berkman or Abreu superstar. Routine .300/.400/.550 seasons, with 25+ SB.

 

Thinking about Jacobs, I think I found a very good comparison for him as an offensive player. Geoff Jenkins. Career line of .280/.350/.500, lefty, with tons of strikeouts. What's perfect about Jacobs is he will never be asked to be anything more then the # 3 run producer on the team, which is ideal for him. He could make a very nice home batting in the 5th slot and routinely driving in 100+ for years with the OBP monsters of Cabrera and Hermida in front of him. I think he is a nice lefty compliment to the big two, but this crazy insane high ceiling prospect? No.

 

I think he'll be a great number five hitter, as you say. I think he projects more of a .295/.360/.530 guy. I never said he was a Hermida, but his numbers in the minors suggest that he'll be not too much worse than Hermida. I picture him putting up numbers a little better than what Mike Lowell did 2002-2004.

Prin, don't call me stupid, you're the one calling him the second coming of 2002-2004 Mike Lowell which may go down as one of the most ridiculous projections ever.

 

2003 is not relevant to the discussion, it was before a pretty serious injury occured which likely will have a long lasting effect on him, nor is the fact that he's being "blocked" by other people at AAA. If Jacobs were a 'stud' the Mets would find AB's for him at an appropriate level, too bad that appropriate level was AA.

 

Here are his 2005 AA numbers:

 

.321/.376/.589 25/95, 35 BB's 94 K's, 433 AB's. No where near as glistening as what you tried to present as the honest to God truth earlier. He doesn't walk, he K's a lot and he is older than the average 'stud' at the Binghamton level. Milledge is tearing up Binghamton (.337/.392/.487) as a 20 year old, that's a big difference.

 

If Jacobs were Mike Lowell from 2002-2004 in the making, the Mets would neither trade him nor allow him to repeat AA to allow Mike DiFelice to get AB's.

 

For good measure, here's baseball-america's scouting report:

 

4. MIKE JACOBS, c/1b Age: 25 B-T: L-R Ht: 6-2 Wt.: 200

Drafted: Grossmont (Calif.) JC, 1999 (38th round) Signed by: Bob Minor

 

Background: The Mets? minor league player of the year in 2003, Jacobs missed most of the following season with a torn labrum. He came back to win the Eastern League MVP and organization player of the year awards in 2005, and became the first big leaguer ever to homer four times in his first four games.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Strengths:

Jacobs is primarily a pull hitter with power, but he can drive the ball to the opposite field on occasion. He has a smooth lefthanded stroke and is a purely offensive player. Though the Mets benched him against lefties, he handled them well in Double-A, posting a .896 OPS.

Weaknesses:

While he came up as a catcher, Jacobs split time behind the plate and at first base in Double-A and only played first in his brief stint in New York. He has below-average catch-and-throw skills, but is adequate at first. His swing can get long at times, and plate discipline has never been his strong suit.

The Future:

The Mets have yet to decide if they will give him a shot behind the plate, but they?re also in the market for a first baseman. Without an offseason move, he?s their best in-house option for 2006.

 

 

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/feat...op10s/mets.html

I didn't mean the second stat line to be OBP. It was actually slugging. So I had Avg/SLG/OPS instead of AVG/OBP/OPS. Sorry. Obviously, Jacobs didn't have a .710 OBP for the Mets last season.

 

About the Mike Lowell comparison... Mikey played his first full big league season as a 26 year old in 2000. He certainly got a late start by your standards, but he developed into a very good third baseman anyways. I think Jacobs's prime will be similar to Mikey's prime. Jacobs does indeed have the talent to post .280 25HR 80-95 RBI consistently during his prime years, just as Mike Lowell did.

 

Also, I love how you say Jacobs's appropriate level in 2005 was AA and show his numbers, but you didn't quite mention how he torched MLB pitching as well. Maybe I am too big of a stat head, but Jacobs's minor league numbers indicate that he will do very well in the big leagues. This is the same reason why I think Josh Willingham will pull a .285 .370 .500+ line in the majors. I don't care about the fact that Josh is 27 years old. The man can rake.

Also, I love how you say Jacobs's appropriate level in 2005 was AA and show his numbers, but you didn't quite mention how he torched MLB pitching as well.

 

 

I didn't say it, the Mets did, since they felt that Mike DiFelice needed the AAA AB's over Jacobs.

 

As for "torching" MLB pitching, 100 AB's is hardly a fair sample size. The 11 HR's are impressive, but 4 of them came instantly. His average is buoyed by a 8-16 debut, after which he went 23-84. But at least he was "torching" people his own age .

 

If you told me to give you a best case scenario for his average career year, I'd say .260, 20 HR's and 80 RBI. Not ideal, but not terrible, and hardly 'studly.' (Especially considering the position he plays) Until he learns to walk (even Lowell still does that well) he's going to be a very one dimensional player.

I think he'll be a great number five hitter, as you say. I think he projects more of a .295/.360/.530 guy. I never said he was a Hermida, but his numbers in the minors suggest that he'll be not too much worse than Hermida. I picture him putting up numbers a little better than what Mike Lowell did 2002-2004.

 

 

I disagree that his numbers suggest he is anywhere near Hermida. It is true he is showing more raw power then Hermida, but I think part of that is due to the fact no one was pitching to Hermida when he walked an insane 110 times last year. Big league pitchers are going to pitch to him more, and his power numbers will increase with more "opportunities." Jacobs just doesn't have a great BB rate for a power hitter, and strikes out a lot. He's going to be a 40-50 BB and 120-140 K type guy in 600 AB and might always need a 'platoon' partner to take 100 AB or so away from him from left handed pitching. We'll see though. Maybe he starts walking 60+ times a year and keeps the average up around .300 and can turn into a .900 OPS player like you believe. I just think an absolute ceiling for him is a Geoff Jenkins, .850 type OPS player, and he will produce normal years around .800-.825 (or Jason Lane, Kevin Mench). Regardless, like I said. What's good is he never has to be a primary run producer for this team, he will always be the 3rd or 4th guy, and he is a lefty. He's a nice piece for this team and I'm glad we have him.

We can agree to disagree. Let's see where Jacobs stands at the end of the season. I predict .285 25 HR 85 RBI for this season.

 

I'd like to ask those Jacobs haters if they've seen the kid hit? Have you seen more than 15-20 of his AB's from last year?

I'd like to ask those Jacobs haters if they've seen the kid hit? Have you seen more than 15-20 of his AB's from last year?

 

 

I'm not a hater, I'm a realist.

 

He only had 100 big league AB's so asking to see more than 20 is a bit outlandish for a non-Mets fan.

I'd like to ask those Jacobs haters if they've seen the kid hit? Have you seen more than 15-20 of his AB's from last year?

 

 

I'm not a hater, I'm a realist.

 

He only had 100 big league AB's so asking to see more than 20 is a bit outlandish for a non-Mets fan.

 

Ok. Fine. I think you're wrong. He's got more big league AB's than Hermida. I still predict 25HR. He's got a lot of power. We'll see what he ends up with at the end of the season.

 

You still didn't answer my question. Have you seen more than 15-20 of his AB's from last year?

Jim Callis also thinks David Wright is going to have a better career than Miguel Cabrera.

 

So, frankly, I don't value his opinion very much.

Jim Callis also thinks David Wright is going to have a better career than Miguel Cabrera.

 

So, frankly, I don't value his opinion very much.

 

Well, Jim Callis is an IDIOT!

I'd like to ask those Jacobs haters if they've seen the kid hit? Have you seen more than 15-20 of his AB's from last year?

 

 

I'm not a hater, I'm a realist.

 

He only had 100 big league AB's so asking to see more than 20 is a bit outlandish for a non-Mets fan.

 

The same realist who said Dontrelle Willis isn't an ace and had an inconsistent 2005?

I'd like to ask those Jacobs haters if they've seen the kid hit? Have you seen more than 15-20 of his AB's from last year?

 

 

I'm not a hater, I'm a realist.

 

He only had 100 big league AB's so asking to see more than 20 is a bit outlandish for a non-Mets fan.

 

The same realist who said Dontrelle Willis isn't an ace and had an inconsistent 2005?

 

You forgot to add:

 

"would like to see an out played in 2006 before proclaiming a player the next coming of anything."

 

Willis has to use 2006 to prove that 2005 wasn't an aberration in his up and down career.

 

Jacobs needs to use 2006 to prove that he will make a serviceable major leaguer with of some of the offensive upside he has teased.

 

And the entire Marlins fan base needs to use 2006 to see if there is anything to get excited about or if all these prospects go the way of Abraham Nunez (who I know many were proclaiming the next big thing after the Mantei trade).

 

:thumbup

Not this again. Priny and I have already provided the facts. We already went over the up and down career part.

 

Willis has been above average or dominant a lot more than he has been inconsistent in his professional career (this includes time in the minors). :thumbup

Tswift, whoever thought Nunez was the next coming was probably concentrating a bit too much on his "tools." If you look at his minor league career, he never really did anything to warrant that much excitement.

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/N/a...m-nunez-1.shtml