And what should the skewing of facts to your favored location tell us?

 

 

Find this skewing you speak of?

 

The only opinion you will find on the site are comments left after an article is posted. The site isn't based on commentary, our mission is to bring together all the articles from the different media sources for easy access to those who want it. Every 1-2 weeks Cape and I will do a breakdown on a certain issue (ex: I broke down the Hialeah Heights site a few weeks ago with info found in county memos). So yeah there is no skewing on our site. Cape will be the first to tell you that's not what he wants on the site.

 

Skewing the facts isn't difference of opinion.

That site in San Antonio looks like the Joe Robbie site. Just a spur(sic) off the highway. It won't do at all. Doesn't look like a "destination" site, and the only foot traffic might be some illegals who just crossed the border passing by. Doesn't Bexar county have some downtown site to offer? Tex...is there anything downtown available?

Festa, you're not even part of this. You don't have a reputation to uphold nor do I really care. Cape has the facts at his disposal. He's chosen to report them in a way that favors the South Florida site. He's chosen to ignore very clear evidence that he is quite aware of from other proposals. What Cape is doing is looking at two nearly identical eggs, and for some reason (certainly not logic as we've proven here) predicting one will be still born and the other will be a beautiful swan. What I want to know is why. Why is he making an attempt to smash holes in San Antonio's proposal where they aren't even in cracks yet willing to give Hialeah's every benefit of doubt. Why point out that one deal is bad because Marlins' responsibility and the land situation hasn't been resolved when there is a far greater debt and problem with land at the site he supposedly favors? That's BS. He knows it. I know it. You know it. We all know it. So why is he trying to fool us?

Festa, you're not even part of this. You don't have a reputation to uphold nor do I really care. Cape has the facts at his disposal. He's chosen to report them in a way that favors the South Florida site. He's chosen to ignore very clear evidence that he is quite aware of from other proposals. What Cape is doing is looking at two nearly identical eggs, and for some reason (certainly not logic as we've proven here) predicting one will be still born and the other will be a beautiful swan. What I want to know is why. Why is he making an attempt to smash holes in San Antonio's proposal where they aren't even in cracks yet willing to give Hialeah's every benefit of doubt. Why point out that one deal is bad because Marlins' responsibility and the land situation hasn't been resolved when there is a far greater debt and problem with land at the site he supposedly favors? That's BS. He knows it. I know it. You know it. We all know it. So why is he trying to fool us?

 

As of today,

 

Dade County has an offer of hard money on the table. If a deal was made and approved by the County Commission, bond sales would happen very quickly.

 

Right now the proposal in Bexar County has to seek voter approval, and Bexar County has to attempt issuing bonds. I am no expert in Bexar County, Texas' ability to issue bonds, but there has been mentioned that the at&t Center debt would have to be refinanced which would lead me to think they intend to do a more complicated transaction than previously done in Bexar County.

 

This is not Hialeah vs. San Antonio, this is Dade County's offer vs. Bexar County's offer. Bexar County's current offer is dead in the water. The Marlins have not proven they can secure private financing in South Florida which would make it even more difficult to do in San Antonio without selling shares in the team or having MLB provide financing, both which are things that can be done in South Florida.

 

If you consider the two offers identical eggs, then you don't understand that Bexar County's offer takes an election in November and a big push by private financing, while Dade County's offer requires the Marlins sign the offer sheet and open their pocketbooks in annual lease payments.

Festa, you're not even part of this. You don't have a reputation to uphold nor do I really care.

 

You said the site Cape and I work to keep up-to-date and accurate was skewing the facts. I think I have a right to be part of this. :thumbup

And what should the skewing of facts to your favored location tell us?

 

 

Find this skewing you speak of?

 

The only opinion you will find on the site are comments left after an article is posted. The site isn't based on commentary, our mission is to bring together all the articles from the different media sources for easy access to those who want it. Every 1-2 weeks Cape and I will do a breakdown on a certain issue (ex: I broke down the Hialeah Heights site a few weeks ago with info found in county memos). So yeah there is no skewing on our site. Cape will be the first to tell you that's not what he wants on the site.

 

Skewing the facts isn't difference of opinion.

so should one expect a breakdown of the san antonio offer as well?

so should one expect a breakdown of the san antonio offer as well?

 

I'd love to review the offer sheet, but it hasn't been made public record. I don't see where Texas would have a law making it public record immediately either like we have in Florida.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Leave us face it..after the tantrums Huizenga threw and the emotional blackmail/con job he did with the Panthers' arena (BTW..what is the name of it this week?), politicians are leery.

 

Joe Robbie was able to finance JRS (sorry, I refuse to refer to whatever Sieg Huizenga has renamed it). You telling me Loria can't do that?

 

Has UM baseball started to outdraw the Marlins again?

Joe Robbie Stadium was financed using Dade County bonds. Dolphins Stadium would be paid off using private funds, but Dade County put up the land and the credit to get it built and Dade County still carries the debt.

It's so sad that after all these years we're still talking about stadiums.

I mean, we know the names of our local politicians more than we

know the names of our current players.

Festa, you're not even part of this. You don't have a reputation to uphold nor do I really care. Cape has the facts at his disposal. He's chosen to report them in a way that favors the South Florida site. He's chosen to ignore very clear evidence that he is quite aware of from other proposals. What Cape is doing is looking at two nearly identical eggs, and for some reason (certainly not logic as we've proven here) predicting one will be still born and the other will be a beautiful swan. What I want to know is why. Why is he making an attempt to smash holes in San Antonio's proposal where they aren't even in cracks yet willing to give Hialeah's every benefit of doubt. Why point out that one deal is bad because Marlins' responsibility and the land situation hasn't been resolved when there is a far greater debt and problem with land at the site he supposedly favors? That's BS. He knows it. I know it. You know it. We all know it. So why is he trying to fool us?

 

For christ's sake, give it a rest. In some respects, you're pettier than sorianofan.

 

At first I thought you were trashing his 'reporting' abilities with regard to his ballpark website, but now that you point out that you really just disagree with what he's posting on a message board -- do you really feel the need to let us know that over and over and over again? The vigor with which you go at this is amazing.

 

I mean, hell, I agree with you that Cape has no credibility most of the time and makes stuff up at the drop of a hat, but are you seriously chastising a guy for 'favoring' a stadium site that doesn't require his team leaving and moving to what is, comparatively, a boonie-town? Are you that out of touch with Marlins fans?

The only time the website came up was the introduction by Festa, who is obviously protective of his partner, and Cape, hiding behind a partnership. I haven't mentioned the blog at all except to praise it. My beef is with Cape the analyst. You can see that as extending to his contribution to the website, but it's not about the website. It's about one of its contributors comments there, and more specifically here.

 

Shaq Man, no, I'm not. I do think Cape needs to make that fact known if he's (and the website he contributes to) going to considered a reliable source. And I question whether his attempts to deconstruct Bexar's offer are productive to his other more worthwhile goals. However, really it's that I miss the old Cape, who didn't just make sh*t up (such as he did on the assumption Bexar will require the Marlins to contribute cash up front) or flat out lie (that Bexar's funding gap and land situation is worse than in Dade and Hialeah or Miami). The old Cape who sought out information, thought critically about it, sought the opinions of experts and released his findings.

 

Joe Robbie Stadium was financed using Dade County bonds. Dolphins Stadium would be paid off using private funds, but Dade County put up the land and the credit to get it built and Dade County still carries the debt.

 

Yet for some reason you're predicting Bexar to have a harder time to float bonds and find an underwriter than a county financing a football stadium, basketball stadium and annual hurricane reconstruction.

 

I'd love to review the offer sheet, but it hasn't been made public record. I don't see where Texas would have a law making it public record immediately either like we have in Florida.

 

Yet you were willing to enlighten us on a number of its supposed details that you suggest makes it dead on delivery.

That site in San Antonio looks like the Joe Robbie site. Just a spur(sic) off the highway. It won't do at all. Doesn't look like a "destination" site, and the only foot traffic might be some illegals who just crossed the border passing by. Doesn't Bexar county have some downtown site to offer? Tex...is there anything downtown available?

 

 

Nice one idiot. Sorry, I don't see why this idiot brought up "illegals."

 

Anyway, that isn't a spur, it's Wurzbach Parkway, a hybrid freeway, and it does run through the Quarry, however just south osoutheast of this picture is Interstate 35.

 

Also the area of this quarry is very middle class/upper middle class.

In terms of urban density San Antonio is at 3,255 (2000) while Miami is at 4,408 (2000). Not too huge of a difference.

I'm not quite sure how that helps your argument, as the website you quoted those numbers from also pins the Miami "urban area" population at 4.919 million, compared to San Antonio's 1.328 million.

 

An easier way to understand why it's ridiculous to even compare the two would be to look at two scaled images, side-by-side. (credit: Google Earth)

 

On the left, the only inhabited portions of Dade/Broward counties (i.e., not covered by swamp/wetlands) are highlighted. On the right is Bexar county.

 

 

 

 

on the left: 1050 sq mi.; 4+ million population (link)

 

on the right: 1247 sq mi.; 1.49 million population (link)

 

It's not even close.

I was hoping we didn't have to get into population again. Granted Miami/FTL is a larger market then SA.

 

But, here are some FACTS AGAIN about SA/Austin, I agree that it takes more than just filling the Stadium, for example Corporate base; SA/Austin has a sizeable corporate base, such as AT&T, USAA, Belo, Washington Mutual;Toyota; and so on and on. So we have this cover. Moving on to the next; population see below:

 

2005 updated facts:

San Antonio 1.2 Million

Bexar County 1.6 Million

San Antonio MSA 1.9 Million

 

Austin .8 Million

Travis County 1.0 Million

Austin MSA 1.2 Million

 

Total SA/Austin MSA 3.1 Million

 

The sites where the stadium are being proposed are about a 45 minute drive between SA/Austin. Miami/FTL is approx. 30 miles apart, or maybe 20 minutes drive. Due to the fact the Miami/FTL are not that far apart are included as one market. Rigthfully so, but, to discount Austin from the SA area is unreasonable. Rangers ballpark is approx. 3.5 to 4.0 drive from Austin, and the Astros is about a 2.5 hour drive from Austin.

 

Last point which is the one one I'm not to sure how it would be handle is the local TV venue. SA TV Stations show a few Astros game, and the rangers game are almost non-exsitence. One thing that would make sense is showing games in the SA/Austin markets, upon sellout, I assume.

 

I lived in Palm Beach Gardens for 10 years and graduated from Nova University, and I will said South Fla. is a great place to live. However, raised in SA, there is so much to do here as well. SA is one of the top Cities for tourist, and one of the fastest growing cities in the nation, and the fastest growing city in Texas. Corporations are recongizing what SA has to offer, especially the cost of living. The avg. median income for the SA/Austin is approx. $46-48M annually, by Miami/FTL standared that's not much, but for SA you will live comfortable.

 

My entire point is that we can support a second professional team, and to discount SA/Austin as a no thread, will only make our leader's job easier. On another note, are you South Floridians aware the Ryan's organization are also following this segment, and have express some interest. Oh! for your non-Texans. "Nolan Ryan" that is.

 

Best Regards,

JRTexas55

It's wrong state South Florida's large population when so many have proven they don't care about the Marlins, and not simply because their owners have treated them wrong (although that's a big part of it too). Huge pockets of the population are not of the desired baseball-watching demographic (elderly, women, young teens). Furthermore a great many a psychologically distant from the Marlins or any team but their father's team from up northeast. And then there's the poverty issue. Perhaps many of the same problems might occur in segments of San Antonio too. Although we can assume not quite as much (the Rangers aren't no Cubs). However, these are the things you have to consider when you're looking at the numbers. It's the same thing with two great players with a batting averages and OPS, you still need to look at their line drive rate or injury frequency among a thousand other things to consider which one you'd choose for your squad.

The only time the website came up was the introduction by Festa, who is obviously protective of his partner, and Cape, hiding behind a partnership. I haven't mentioned the blog at all except to praise it. My beef is with Cape the analyst. You can see that as extending to his contribution to the website, but it's not about the website. It's about one of its contributors comments there, and more specifically here.

 

Shaq Man, no, I'm not. I do think Cape needs to make that fact known if he's (and the website he contributes to) going to considered a reliable source. And I question whether his attempts to deconstruct Bexar's offer are productive to his other more worthwhile goals. However, really it's that I miss the old Cape, who didn't just make sh*t up (such as he did on the assumption Bexar will require the Marlins to contribute cash up front) or flat out lie (that Bexar's funding gap and land situation is worse than in Dade and Hialeah or Miami). The old Cape who sought out information, thought critically about it, sought the opinions of experts and released his findings.

You attack me personally, yet when I present why I said San Antonio's current deal was dead in the water you brush it off. The fact is San Antonio not only has to prove it is MLB-viable, not only do they have to come up with the voter approval, not only do they have to get season tickets sold, not only do they have to "help" the Marlins find someone to loan them the money to do this, not only do they have to see the Marlins sell a share to local investors, but then the Marlins/SA have to go to MLB and buy out the significant TV Territory rights the Texas Rangers and Houston Astros have to the area. Bexar County's current proposal makes no suggestion on how the Marlins will come up with the funds to complete construction. No matter how you look at it, the money has to be paid to contractors by the time the stadium opens. The Marlins won't make $100M in 3 years unless they flat out lied about South Florida operational losses. Until you understand this premise, you will not understand why this offer is dead in the water.

 

It is like trying to buy a house with little job history, little or bad credit, and low amounts of cash in the bank. Now what bank is going to give you such a big loan? Unless Bexar County comes back with a solution, which they have no indications they will have to, and I will not make the assumption Bexar County will, then this is dead-in-the-water.

 

The facts are there. Financials are not going to change. The Marlins need governmental help or else it ain't getting done anywhere unless Loria sells out.

 

Yet for some reason you're predicting Bexar to have a harder time to float bonds and find an underwriter than a county financing a football stadium, basketball stadium and annual hurricane reconstruction.

Dade County has a bigger budget and better credit than some states. I know this through first-hand experience. The day Dade County is broke is the day the earth will stop spinning and explode. The Dolphins Stadium Corporation pays the loan on time, the basketball arenas* have their own bed taxes to pay on-time, and we have plenty of Hurricane "Rainy-Day" funds. Projects are funded before they are begun in order to prevent them from shortfall or defecit-spending in Florida. That is why County and State Government here are never in the red.

 

*The Miami Arena was paid off when it was sold. So its bed tax money is being set aside for this Ballpark and the Orange Bowl renovations amongst other projects. The AmericanAirlines Arena was financed by the HEAT Group (Heat owner & Carnival CEO Micky Arison got financing) and Dade County is paying off that loan for CapEx/land expenses that they had to cover....consider it a reverse Dolphins Stadium situation.

 

Yet you were willing to enlighten us on a number of its supposed details that you suggest makes it dead on delivery.

 

The details are simple economics. No loans will be given to you unless you meet the qualifications of the lender. With no history of making money, no assets of large value, no credit as a company, and when seeking such a large amount to borrow....it is near impossible unless the bank just throws its book out the window. It is very difficult a bank would do that unless MLB or a local government were to "co-sign" the loan. That can be done in South Florida.

The sites where the stadium are being proposed are about a 45 minute drive between SA/Austin. Miami/FTL is approx. 30 miles apart, or maybe 20 minutes drive. Due to the fact the Miami/FTL are not that far apart are included as one market. Rigthfully so, but, to discount Austin from the SA area is unreasonable. Rangers ballpark is approx. 3.5 to 4.0 drive from Austin, and the Astros is about a 2.5 hour drive from Austin.

 

 

It's about as reasonable as keeping the Tampa and Orlando media markets seperate. (85 miles apart)

It's about as reasonable as keeping the Tampa and Orlando media markets seperate. (85 miles apart

 

Thank you,

My point exactly, Orlando which has no Football, and baseball is approx +/- 1 hour drive to Tampa. If someone in Olando wanted to see an NFL game, would they drive to Tampa, or Jacksonville which is approx. 2+ hour drive.

 

Note: Correct me if I'm wrong, but are the Devil Rays also struggling with attendance?

 

Here's the lastest from SA: former Secretary of HUD/Mayor Henry Cisneros:

To Cisneros, MLB merits 'full chance'

It's about as reasonable as keeping the Tampa and Orlando media markets seperate. (85 miles apart

 

Thank you,

My point exactly, Orlando which has no Football, and baseball is approx +/- 1 hour drive to Tampa. If someone in Olando wanted to see an NFL game, would they drive to Tampa, or Jacksonville which is approx. 2+ hour drive.

 

Note: Correct me if I'm wrong, but are the Devil Rays also struggling with attendance?

 

Here's the lastest from SA: former Secretary of HUD/Mayor Henry Cisneros:

To Cisneros, MLB merits 'full chance'

 

But if you did this to every market in the majors how much bigger would they be and how much smaller would San Antonio look?

The Devil Rays are in Tampa Bay's western-most county, but they are closer to the southern areas of that market to my north.

But, here are some FACTS AGAIN about SA/Austin, I agree that it takes more than just filling the Stadium, for example Corporate base; SA/Austin has a sizeable corporate base, such as AT&T, USAA, Belo, Washington Mutual;Toyota; and so on and on. So we have this cover. Moving on to the next; population see below:

 

2005 updated facts:

San Antonio 1.2 Million

Bexar County 1.6 Million

San Antonio MSA 1.9 Million

 

Austin .8 Million

Travis County 1.0 Million

Austin MSA 1.2 Million

 

Total SA/Austin MSA 3.1 Million

JR-

 

There's a reason why SA and Austin are separate MSAs.

 

Just to put in geographical perspective what you're attempting to do by combining the two markets:

OK I'm going to try it again one more time, and then I'll stop! :banghead

I?m NOT suggesting that SA/Austin be made into one market.

Then let me throw it out there for you, please don't get me wrong, I am not trying to put words in your mouth.

But, base on your points are you suggesting that SA will not draw from Austin. This is the only other way I can put it, YES/NO, use the Attorney approach, hopefully this will make you understand.

No way am I suggesting to re-define marketplaces.

 

Because if you were suggesting the above, then you would also have to believe that Bucs, and Devil Rays are not drawing from Orlando? :headscratch :headscratch

 

P.S. I was born, and educated in Florida, and I know how stubborn Floridian can be, so you're not even going to give aleast an inch.

 

Have a good one and enjoy.

 

Thanks,

JRTexas55

In terms of urban density San Antonio is at 3,255 (2000) while Miami is at 4,408 (2000). Not too huge of a difference.

I'm not quite sure how that helps your argument, as the website you quoted those numbers from also pins the Miami "urban area" population at 4.919 million, compared to San Antonio's 1.328 million.

 

An easier way to understand why it's ridiculous to even compare the two would be to look at two scaled images, side-by-side. (credit: Google Earth)

 

On the left, the only inhabited portions of Dade/Broward counties (i.e., not covered by swamp/wetlands) are highlighted. On the right is Bexar county.

 

 

 

 

on the left: 1050 sq mi.; 4+ million population (link)

 

on the right: 1247 sq mi.; 1.49 million population (link)

 

It's not even close.

 

Is there a difference between swamps and wetlands as opposed to military installations?

 

San Antonio has five of them and believe me they all take up a lot of land, esp Camp Bullis in far north San Antonio.

Is there a difference between swamps and wetlands as opposed to military installations?

 

if everyone lived in one contiguous corner of Bexar county because of them, then no.