Its not irrational, I just dislike a man who has ruined the Marlins, and possibly crippled the franchise now from getting any kind of help.

 

FA's will avoid us like the plague. We only got Borchard because he was a reject -- 3 teams in like 3 or 4 months. I'm telling you know, kids will wince when the Marlins take them, because they know it means they'll never have the chance to get the big $$$ and they'll never win a championship. 2003 fell into Loria's lap - Dombrowski was responsible for that, and everyone knows it. He was the one that traded, signed and drafted for and saw the futures of Lee, Castillo, Gonzalez, Lowell, and Beckett, not Beinfest.

 

 

Who is worse, Loria or Huizenga?

 

Henry.

Its not irrational, I just dislike a man who has ruined the Marlins, and possibly crippled the franchise now from getting any kind of help.

 

FA's will avoid us like the plague. We only got Borchard because he was a reject -- 3 teams in like 3 or 4 months. I'm telling you know, kids will wince when the Marlins take them, because they know it means they'll never have the chance to get the big $$$ and they'll never win a championship. 2003 fell into Loria's lap - Dombrowski was responsible for that, and everyone knows it. He was the one that traded, signed and drafted for and saw the futures of Lee, Castillo, Gonzalez, Lowell, and Beckett, not Beinfest.

 

Not only is this post (as was the one which started this thread) irrational, it's fraudulent, but alas not unexpected from its author.

 

Either the author doesn't understand how the amateur draft works or the consequences for the draftee should he refuse to sign, his contention that the draftee will never see big money if he signs with the Fish ignores how the CBA works or even by example the salary increase we just saw for Dontrelle Willis and will see next year for Miguel Cabrera. These things are out of the hands of the Marlins, they happen because of the way baseball works. Were Cabrera (used for example purposes only) to be traded this season he would still be in line for the same massive salary increase he would be awarded through arbitration (were he to go that route with the Marlins) or as Willis did, by signing for a figure agreeable to both sides with the Fish.

 

And this contention that "...2003 fell into Loria's lap - Dombrowski was responsible for that, and everyone knows it..." is ridiculous on it face. I suppose it was Dombrowski who brought in McKeon, it was Dombrowski who brought in Pudge, it was Dombrowski who brought in Pierre, Urbina, Conine, Chad Fox, Carl Pavano, Mike Mordecai and Rick Helling. And I guess the author also believes Dombrowski was responsible for trading for Dontrelle Willis.

 

Haters and idiots find themselves living in self-created fantasy lands because they can't live with the truth. The facts, in their minds, are just impediments that get in the way of telling a good fairy tale. And that's what this thread is all about, and fairy tale, piling mistruth, upon mistruth in hopes someone out there is gullible enough to believe them.

Its not irrational, I just dislike a man who has ruined the Marlins, and possibly crippled the franchise now from getting any kind of help.

 

FA's will avoid us like the plague. We only got Borchard because he was a reject -- 3 teams in like 3 or 4 months. I'm telling you know, kids will wince when the Marlins take them, because they know it means they'll never have the chance to get the big $$$ and they'll never win a championship. 2003 fell into Loria's lap - Dombrowski was responsible for that, and everyone knows it. He was the one that traded, signed and drafted for and saw the futures of Lee, Castillo, Gonzalez, Lowell, and Beckett, not Beinfest.

 

Not only is this post (as was the one which started this thread) irrational, it's fraudulent, but alas not unexpected from its author.

 

Either the author doesn't understand how the amateur draft works or the consequences for the draftee should he refuse to sign, his contention that the draftee will never see big money if he signs with the Fish ignores how the CBA works or even by example the salary increase we just saw for Dontrelle Willis and will see next year for Miguel Cabrera. These things are out of the hands of the Marlins, they happen because of the way baseball works. Were Cabrera (used for example purposes only) to be traded this season he would still be in line for the same massive salary increase he would be awarded through arbitration (were he to go that route with the Marlins) or as Willis did, by signing for a figure agreeable to both sides with the Fish.

 

And this contention that "...2003 fell into Loria's lap - Dombrowski was responsible for that, and everyone knows it..." is ridiculous on it face. I suppose it was Dombrowski who brought in McKeon, it was Dombrowski who brought in Pudge, it was Dombrowski who brought in Pierre, Urbina, Conine, Chad Fox, Carl Pavano, Mike Mordecai and Rick Helling. And I guess the author also believes Dombrowski was responsible for trading for Dontrelle Willis.

 

Haters and idiots find themselves living in self-created fantasy lands because they can't live with the truth. The facts, in their minds, are just impediments that get in the way of telling a good fairy tale. And that's what this thread is all about, and fairy tale, piling mistruth, upon mistruth in hopes someone out there is gullible enough to believe them.

 

 

 

:goodpost

 

While I dont agree with all of Marlins2003's opinions and pontifications........

 

:clapping :clapping :clapping .......This is my nominee for POST OF THE YEAR.

 

:notworthy

You people will see what I say is true, when the kids REFUSE to sign with the Marlins. JD did it and this organization is far worse than even the Phillies were at that time.

 

Why sign with the Marlins when you can go into the draft the next year.

 

We will have either the 1st, 2nd or 3rd pick in the draft in 2007 -- no one picked that high is going to sign with the hapless Marlins.

 

This franchise has no future with Loria as owner, he needs to sell to someone with deeper pockets.

You people will see what I say is true, when the kids REFUSE to sign with the Marlins. JD did it and this organization is far worse than even the Phillies were at that time.

 

Why sign with the Marlins when you can go into the draft the next year.

 

We will have either the 1st, 2nd or 3rd pick in the draft in 2007 -- no one picked that high is going to sign with the hapless Marlins.

 

This franchise has no future with Loria as owner, he needs to sell to someone with deeper pockets.

 

Your making yourself look like an idiot.

Marlins always give the signing bonus that correlates with where a person is selected. No problem there.

 

Most players, even most good players, dont get a big payday until they reach arbitration.

 

I honestly dont see what your point is.

You people will see what I say is true, when the kids REFUSE to sign with the Marlins. JD did it and this organization is far worse than even the Phillies were at that time.

 

Why sign with the Marlins when you can go into the draft the next year.

 

We will have either the 1st, 2nd or 3rd pick in the draft in 2007 -- no one picked that high is going to sign with the hapless Marlins.

 

This franchise has no future with Loria as owner, he needs to sell to someone with deeper pockets.

 

Like I said in a previous post in this thread, the Marlins will talk to the players they will consider drafting, and they will know who will sign with them BEFORE they pick them. Therefore, it (hopefully) won't be the crap-shoot you're making it out to be.

You people will see what I say is true, when the kids REFUSE to sign with the Marlins. JD did it and this organization is far worse than even the Phillies were at that time.

 

Why sign with the Marlins when you can go into the draft the next year.

 

We will have either the 1st, 2nd or 3rd pick in the draft in 2007 -- no one picked that high is going to sign with the hapless Marlins.

 

This franchise has no future with Loria as owner, he needs to sell to someone with deeper pockets.

 

Your making yourself look like an idiot.

 

If we draft HS players or any college Jr's I am betting they all end up in college ball next year. None of them wish to be in the mess known as the Florida Marlins Baseball Club.

You people will see what I say is true, when the kids REFUSE to sign with the Marlins. JD did it and this organization is far worse than even the Phillies were at that time.

 

Why sign with the Marlins when you can go into the draft the next year.

 

We will have either the 1st, 2nd or 3rd pick in the draft in 2007 -- no one picked that high is going to sign with the hapless Marlins.

 

This franchise has no future with Loria as owner, he needs to sell to someone with deeper pockets.

 

Your making yourself look like an idiot.

 

If we draft HS players or any college Jr's I am betting they all end up in college ball next year. None of them wish to be in the mess known as the Florida Marlins Baseball Club.

Explain why wouldnt they?

You people will see what I say is true, when the kids REFUSE to sign with the Marlins. JD did it and this organization is far worse than even the Phillies were at that time.

 

Why sign with the Marlins when you can go into the draft the next year.

 

We will have either the 1st, 2nd or 3rd pick in the draft in 2007 -- no one picked that high is going to sign with the hapless Marlins.

 

This franchise has no future with Loria as owner, he needs to sell to someone with deeper pockets.

 

Like I said in a previous post in this thread, the Marlins will talk to the players they will consider drafting, and they will know who will sign with them BEFORE they pick them. Therefore, it (hopefully) won't be the crap-shoot you're making it out to be.

 

So that means you'll be taking a player with that draft position that doesn't deserve it, to pass on better players because they won't sign with the Marlins. This is basically what I am saying -- no one with any aspirations to play for a winning franchise will play for us, because we'll be losers as long as Loria owns the team. You people are blinded by teal coloured glasses if you think Loria will ever spend the money to field a competitive team. He did it last year and in 2004 and he said fans still didn't show up, so what incentive does he have to spend money and field a good team ? He's making $ 30 or 40 million this year and loves it. He's not gonna give up that to spend money to try and win. He may have in the past, but never again. Trust me if he gets the new stadium, with all the new revenue, he'll keep us in the Vince Namoli World of Baseball Miserly Misery.

 

Laught at me if you wish, but deep down you fear I am correct.

Deep down I fear you are commitable.

 

The 2003 team was built primarily from within, with 6 regular position starters coming from the farms of this system. 4 of the starting pitchers(Big Tex, The AJ, D-Train, and Penny) did the same thing. Granted The AJ got hurt and didnt make it to the all star break, but D-Train was up when AJ went down.

 

That team had the 25th lowest payroll in baseball. They won a WS.

 

Now, looking at the talent that team had where much of it came through the system itself, and the mass of players now working their way up and some which are already on the big club, and a stadium not being a pipe dream any longer, which if built will ensure that this young corps can stay together for a long time, meaning a potential dynasty...

 

why wouldnt a young player want to sign here. Why look at 2006 if you can recall 2003 and think what 2008 and beyond might hold.

My only fear is that you'll start another equally stupid, fraudulent and hateful thread tomorrow

Explain why wouldnt they?

 

 

Because they don't want to play for the Marlins. Who would ? Its totally depressing. 5,000 fans a night, no chance of a winning season, because the owner will trade away anyone making more than the minimum (Cabrera and Willis will be gone by July 31 -- almost guarenteed). Why would you want to play here ? We can only attract FA rejects like Helms and Mohler. Pokey Reese saw how bad it would be and got smart and quit. He knew how bad it was gonna be. Conine was offered the same money he got in Baltimore, yet he chose them (even though his family and business interests are in So Fla) over us because he saw how bad it was. We still call him Mr Marlin, but he actually turned his back on us.

 

Also Loria has cut back drastically on the scouting. Do we even have anyone scounting Latin America anymore ??? I tried to find the info on MLB's Marlins site and I couldn't find it. We also have one less Single A than many teams, which means we keep less talent in the organization. I guess be cause Loria has to pay part of the minor league team expenses and he doesn't want to fork out the money.

 

Bottom line, Loria needs to sell the team to a local So Fla interest like Joe Arriola's friend. He has the money to make the Marlins a winner and keep them there.

Joe Arriola's friend. That sounds like a good owner.

 

I think the firesale was honestly the best thing that could've happened for the team's future. Unlike the Pirates or Royals who have one or two decent prospects, we are loaded so we don't need old players with bloated contracts like Conine or Lo Duca to compete in 2 years.

 

Fire Sales kill fan bases for 3 years, and then, if it's done right, the team will be competitive again on the cheap, and people will return.

Deep down I fear you are commitable.

 

The 2003 team was built primarily from within, with 6 regular position starters coming from the farms of this system. 4 of the starting pitchers(Big Tex, The AJ, D-Train, and Penny) did the same thing. Granted The AJ got hurt and didnt make it to the all star break, but D-Train was up when AJ went down.

 

That team had the 25th lowest payroll in baseball. They won a WS.

 

Now, looking at the talent that team had where much of it came through the system itself, and the mass of players now working their way up and some which are already on the big club, and a stadium not being a pipe dream any longer, which if built will ensure that this young corps can stay together for a long time, meaning a potential dynasty...

 

why wouldnt a young player want to sign here. Why look at 2006 if you can recall 2003 and think what 2008 and beyond might hold.

 

 

Nothing has been announced about a new stadium, its still a pipe dream.

 

If I am a young man with a lot of potential, I don't want to be playing for an organization that can't even draw more than a lot of minor league teams.

 

You laugh at me now, but when Loria becomes the next Vince Namoli Clone, and refuses to pay money for players but forces Beinfest to keep trading away talent, you'll see I was right. Beinfest is going to get very tired of this soon, and then this organization will be in real trouble. Who are going to bring in ? Steve Phillips that used to be at the Mets ? Who made mistake after mistake ? Jim Bowden ?

Deep down I fear you are commitable.

 

The 2003 team was built primarily from within, with 6 regular position starters coming from the farms of this system. 4 of the starting pitchers(Big Tex, The AJ, D-Train, and Penny) did the same thing. Granted The AJ got hurt and didnt make it to the all star break, but D-Train was up when AJ went down.

 

That team had the 25th lowest payroll in baseball. They won a WS.

 

Now, looking at the talent that team had where much of it came through the system itself, and the mass of players now working their way up and some which are already on the big club, and a stadium not being a pipe dream any longer, which if built will ensure that this young corps can stay together for a long time, meaning a potential dynasty...

 

why wouldnt a young player want to sign here. Why look at 2006 if you can recall 2003 and think what 2008 and beyond might hold.

 

 

Nothing has been announced about a new stadium, its still a pipe dream.

 

If I am a young man with a lot of potential, I don't want to be playing for an organization that can't even draw more than a lot of minor league teams.

 

You laugh at me now, but when Loria becomes the next Vince Namoli Clone, and refuses to pay money for players but forces Beinfest to keep trading away talent, you'll see I was right. Beinfest is going to get very tired of this soon, and then this organization will be in real trouble. Who are going to bring in ? Steve Phillips that used to be at the Mets ? Who made mistake after mistake ? Jim Bowden ?

If your a young player all you care about is getting a chance to play and where is the best place to get a chance to play? The Yankees? RedSox? Mets?

If your a young player all you care about is getting a chance to play and where is the best place to get a chance to play? The Yankees? RedSox? Mets?

 

 

They care about the $$$ and the endorsement $$$, and as long as you're a Florida Marlin you have no shot at either. Cabrera would have already made about $ 20 million more had he been in the Yankees system, he can't wait to get out of here I'll bet.

 

Just look at all the nasty things AJ and Beckett had to say about Loria and the Marlins when they left. Also remember hearing that Penny used to call and make fun on the phone because he was making the big money in LA and Beckett and AJ were still in Fla.

You people will see what I say is true, when the kids REFUSE to sign with the Marlins. JD did it and this organization is far worse than even the Phillies were at that time.

 

Why sign with the Marlins when you can go into the draft the next year.

 

We will have either the 1st, 2nd or 3rd pick in the draft in 2007 -- no one picked that high is going to sign with the hapless Marlins.

 

This franchise has no future with Loria as owner, he needs to sell to someone with deeper pockets.

 

Your making yourself look like an idiot.

 

If we draft HS players or any college Jr's I am betting they all end up in college ball next year. None of them wish to be in the mess known as the Florida Marlins Baseball Club.

excellent post marlins2003 on post #27...and here is where you are wrong heywood...my lil cousin Jeff Locke is projected as a first round pick in this years draft as a pitcher and he would love to play for the marlins as the marlins have a very good reputation around baseball for developing pitching and getting them to big leagues relatively quickly...he would much rather play in our system than a team like texas, cincy, philly, nyy or nym...why...well texas, cincy and philly all play in hitters ballparks and have little or no chance of winning until they play in a ballpark where actual baseball strategy is used...why not wanting to play for either ny team...because they are both awful in their handling of young pitching and the enormous amount of time it would take to get to the bigs...so heywood, as often, you are wrong...as a life long baseball fan(24 years now) i can tell you that loria, beinfest and co are making very wise decisions in their player evaluating and stockpiling young pitching is the quickest way back to the top of the mountain...and if you dont believe me, read the article peter gammons wrote on the marlins a few weeks back...or...just stop posting and making 90% of the members on this board take you for a moron...or...try a little faith in a team that has given us so many precious and memorable moments with 2 great postseason runs that included 2 titles...or...imagine what it feels like to be a cubs fan :whistle :shifty

Where is the Gammons article ? He hates Loria and the Marlins, he's never said anything nice about them. Even in 2003 he picked against them every game.

If your a young player all you care about is getting a chance to play and where is the best place to get a chance to play? The Yankees? RedSox? Mets?

 

 

They care about the $$$ and the endorsement $$$, and as long as you're a Florida Marlin you have no shot at either. Cabrera would have already made about $ 20 million more had he been in the Yankees system, he can't wait to get out of here I'll bet.

 

Just look at all the nasty things AJ and Beckett had to say about Loria and the Marlins when they left. Also remember hearing that Penny used to call and make fun on the phone because he was making the big money in LA and Beckett and AJ were still in Fla.

How do you get endorsement and money if you dont get a chance to play?

Where is the Gammons article ? He hates Loria and the Marlins, he's never said anything nice about them. Even in 2003 he picked against them every game.

 

he had an espn insider article saying how in all the years he has covered baseball he has never seen an organization with as much young pitching talent as the marlins have and how great han ram will be and etc...run a search and im sure you can find it somewhere on the site

imagine what it feels like to be a cubs fan :whistle :shifty

 

 

I'm feeling that right now....we have become the Cubs -- the South Version

 

 

Where is the Gammons article ? He hates Loria and the Marlins, he's never said anything nice about them. Even in 2003 he picked against them every game.

 

he had an espn insider article saying how in all the years he has covered baseball he has never seen an organization with as much young pitching talent as the marlins have and how great han ram will be and etc...run a search and im sure you can find it somewhere on the site

 

Oh he only said that because he is puckered and attached to John Henry's a**hole. Henry made the trades of Red Sox players, so of course they are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

imagine what it feels like to be a cubs fan :whistle :shifty

 

 

I'm feeling that right now....we have become the Cubs -- the South Version

ummm...we are 3 years removed from a title...they havent won one since 1908...98 years...98...they havent even been to a world series since truman was in office...we arent the cubs...we are the marlins...which...is 96 times better than being the cubs...we even play in a better ball park...just less history and even less LOSING SEASONS

imagine what it feels like to be a cubs fan :whistle :shifty

 

 

I'm feeling that right now....we have become the Cubs -- the South Version

 

 

Where is the Gammons article ? He hates Loria and the Marlins, he's never said anything nice about them. Even in 2003 he picked against them every game.

 

he had an espn insider article saying how in all the years he has covered baseball he has never seen an organization with as much young pitching talent as the marlins have and how great han ram will be and etc...run a search and im sure you can find it somewhere on the site

 

Oh he only said that because he is puckered and attached to John Henry's a**hole. Henry made the trades of Red Sox players, so of course they are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

He also talked about Willingham and that we would keep Miguel and only trade Willis if our young pitchers would be good.

imagine what it feels like to be a cubs fan :whistle :shifty

 

 

I'm feeling that right now....we have become the Cubs -- the South Version

 

 

Where is the Gammons article ? He hates Loria and the Marlins, he's never said anything nice about them. Even in 2003 he picked against them every game.

 

he had an espn insider article saying how in all the years he has covered baseball he has never seen an organization with as much young pitching talent as the marlins have and how great han ram will be and etc...run a search and im sure you can find it somewhere on the site

 

Oh he only said that because he is puckered and attached to John Henry's a**hole. Henry made the trades of Red Sox players, so of course they are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

yeah...i guess petit and nolasco and johnson are all garbage huh...dude get a clue!