May 23, 200620 yr John F. Kennedy made it. Huh, that's good. Not sure why, but I guess the nostalgia factor of being an assassinated President is all it takes.
May 23, 200620 yr I don't see how founders of religion are more influential than say an Isaac Newton or an Albert Einstein. I guess you don't really need to do anything worthwhile to be influential.
May 23, 200620 yr I don't see how founders of religion are more influential than say an Isaac Newton or an Albert Einstein. I guess you don't really need to do anything worthwhile to be influential. You're kidding, right?
May 24, 200620 yr I find it hard to take a list seriously that has an islamic prophit listed ahead the Son of God.
May 24, 200620 yr the list sees Jesus as a prophet and founder of Christianity, not the actual son of God.
May 24, 200620 yr I'd say in the year 2006, Muhammad definitely influences more people than Jesus does.
May 24, 200620 yr How JFK is the 81st most influential person of all time is laughable to me. I'm not sure he's even the 81st most important American.
May 24, 200620 yr Author i don't get the hate for jfk. he poured in a lot of money to make nasa and made it a public entity versus a military one. he pushed the civil right's act of 1964 and for better or worse he dealt with a couple issues in cuba which changed the western world's way of treating them as well as nuclear stand-offs
May 24, 200620 yr ^_^ )-->QUOTE( ^_^ @ May 23 2006, 9:26 PM) 1158441[/snapback] i don't get the hate for jfk. he poured in a lot of money to make nasa and made it a public entity versus a military one. he pushed the civil right's act of 1964 and for better or worse he dealt with a couple issues in cuba which changed the western world's way of treating them as well as nuclear stand-offs He ROYALLY f***ed up the Cuba situation. Read any historical article that DOESN'T focus on his being assassinated and you'll find out he was a pretty mediocre president. For any good he did he screwed something up royally. I have to skoff at anyone who thinks any part of the Cuban missile crisis was a success.
May 24, 200620 yr Author I have to skoff at anyone who thinks any part of the Cuban missile crisis was a success. influences don't have to stem from positive things though i said for better or worse and the dude is an icon for one reason or another.
May 24, 200620 yr that and the civil rights stuff was largely Johnson's idea. on this list 3 US Presidents are named. 1 is a bastard who changed positions more than some changed underwear in teh day, oh and he also semi-plagerised the Declaration of Independence 1 nearly got us into nuclear war. awesome list.
May 24, 200620 yr Author that and the civil rights stuff was largely Johnson's idea. johnson is the one who was in office when it passed after JFK's assassination. jfk was the one who pushed for it from the beginning of his presidency. jfk was the one who had marshals protect freedom riders as well as the one who sent marshals down to u. of 'bama. he gave a televised speech that basically became the 1964 civil rights later on: Next week I shall ask the Congress of the United States to act, to make a commitment it has not fully made in this century to the proposition that race has no place in American life or law. The Federal judiciary has upheld that proposition in a series of forthright cases. The Executive Branch has adopted that proposition in the conduct of its affairs, including the employment of Federal personnel, the use of Federal facilities, and the sale of federally financed housing. But there are other necessary measures which only the Congress can provide, and they must be provided at this session. The old code of equity law under which we live commands for every wrong a remedy, but in too many communities, in too many parts of the country, wrongs are inflicted on Negro citizens and there are no remedies at law. Unless the Congress acts, their only remedy is the street. I am, therefore, asking the Congress to enact legislation giving all Americans the right to be served in facilities which are open to the public -- hotels, restaurants, theaters, retail stores, and similar establishments. This seems to me to be an elementary right. Its denial is an arbitrary indignity that no American in 1963 should have to endure, but many do. I have recently met with scores of business leaders urging them to take voluntary action to end this discrimination, and I have been encouraged by their response, and in the last two weeks over 75 cities have seen progress made in desegregating these kinds of facilities. But many are unwilling to act alone, and for this reason, nationwide legislation is needed if we are to move this problem from the streets to the courts. I'm also asking the Congress to authorize the Federal Government to participate more fully in lawsuits designed to end segregation in public education. We have succeeded in persuading many districts to desegregate voluntarily. Dozens have admitted Negroes without violence. Today, a Negro is attending a State-supported institution in every one of our 50 States, but the pace is very slow. Too many Negro children entering segregated grade schools at the time of the Supreme Court's decision nine years ago will enter segregated high schools this fall, having suffered a loss which can never be restored. The lack of an adequate education denies the Negro a chance to get a decent job. http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/j...civilrights.htm
May 24, 200620 yr ^_^ )-->QUOTE( ^_^ @ May 23 2006, 9:23 PM) 1158685[/snapback] that and the civil rights stuff was largely Johnson's idea. johnson is the one who was in office when it passed after JFK's assassination. jfk was the one who pushed for it from the beginning of his presidency. jfk was the one who had marshals protect freedom riders as well as the one who sent marshals down to u. of 'bama. he gave a televised speech that basically became the 1964 civil rights later on: Next week I shall ask the Congress of the United States to act, to make a commitment it has not fully made in this century to the proposition that race has no place in American life or law. The Federal judiciary has upheld that proposition in a series of forthright cases. The Executive Branch has adopted that proposition in the conduct of its affairs, including the employment of Federal personnel, the use of Federal facilities, and the sale of federally financed housing. But there are other necessary measures which only the Congress can provide, and they must be provided at this session. The old code of equity law under which we live commands for every wrong a remedy, but in too many communities, in too many parts of the country, wrongs are inflicted on Negro citizens and there are no remedies at law. Unless the Congress acts, their only remedy is the street. I am, therefore, asking the Congress to enact legislation giving all Americans the right to be served in facilities which are open to the public -- hotels, restaurants, theaters, retail stores, and similar establishments. This seems to me to be an elementary right. Its denial is an arbitrary indignity that no American in 1963 should have to endure, but many do. I have recently met with scores of business leaders urging them to take voluntary action to end this discrimination, and I have been encouraged by their response, and in the last two weeks over 75 cities have seen progress made in desegregating these kinds of facilities. But many are unwilling to act alone, and for this reason, nationwide legislation is needed if we are to move this problem from the streets to the courts. I'm also asking the Congress to authorize the Federal Government to participate more fully in lawsuits designed to end segregation in public education. We have succeeded in persuading many districts to desegregate voluntarily. Dozens have admitted Negroes without violence. Today, a Negro is attending a State-supported institution in every one of our 50 States, but the pace is very slow. Too many Negro children entering segregated grade schools at the time of the Supreme Court's decision nine years ago will enter segregated high schools this fall, having suffered a loss which can never be restored. The lack of an adequate education denies the Negro a chance to get a decent job. http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/j...civilrights.htm and???? just because kennedy gave the speech on it doesnt mean that johnson wasnt extremely influential in its roots...
May 24, 200620 yr Author and???? just because kennedy gave the speech on it doesnt mean that johnson wasnt extremely influential in its roots... he might have been influential doesn't mean much. jfk was the president at the time and he did what he wanted to do. and he got the ball really rolling on the civil right's front by supporting grass root organizations and actually doing. johnson was the veep. during before he took office for his fallen boss, not exactly a place of great power to get things done himself. most history books and historians will credit the civil right's movement during the 60s to jfk and for good reason he got things done.
May 24, 200620 yr ^_^ )-->QUOTE( ^_^ @ May 23 2006, 9:30 PM) 1158705[/snapback] and???? just because kennedy gave the speech on it doesnt mean that johnson wasnt extremely influential in its roots... he might have been influential doesn't mean much. jfk was the president at the time and he did what he wanted to do. and he got the ball really rolling on the civil right's front by supporting grass root organizations and actually doing. johnson was the veep. during before he took office for his fallen boss, not exactly a place of great power to get things done himself. most history books and historians will credit the civil right's movement during the 60s to jfk and for good reason he got things done. johnson was already one of the key political figures behind the civil rights movement in the 50s. but thanks for playing.
May 24, 200620 yr Author johnson was already one of the key political figures behind the civil rights movement in the 50s. but thanks for playing. says the man who has no proof anything but a plane hit the pentagon and still hasn't backed up his plagarized evidence. dare i even ask if you have any evidence of this? i mean the 1964 civil rights agreement is basically all of jfk's talking points where did he steal them from lbj? the entire democratic party at the time liked the idea of freedom, i know that might be a shock. but nothing got done until jfk and even lbj says he just continued what jfk started.
May 24, 200620 yr oh goodness. we are back onto this. -LBJ as a youth was disgusted by discrimination toward blacks. -LBJ as a congressman worked toward getting blacks equal treatments in schools and on farms -LBJ supported Brown v Board of Education in 1954 -LBJ was very influential in the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1960 as Senate Majority leader -LBJ was appointed by Kennedy to basically head up Civil Rights...while the programs are credited to Kennedy as they happened while he was President they are largely the work of one LBJ. If you want citations for these facts go right ahead and I'll get you some, just to appease you PhishPhan The entire Democratic Party wasnt exactly 'on the top' of Civil Rights, proven in the 1957 Civil Rights Act, Kennedy like Johnson followed party lines by and large on the Civil Rights issue which by and large wasnt exactly 'for' it. Johnson urged Kennedy to take a moral stance for civil rights, never happening due to Kennedy being assassinated.
May 24, 200620 yr ^_^ )-->QUOTE( ^_^ @ May 23 2006, 10:34 PM) 1158719[/snapback] johnson was already one of the key political figures behind the civil rights movement in the 50s. but thanks for playing. says the man who has no proof anything but a plane hit the pentagon and still hasn't backed up his plagarized evidence. dare i even ask if you have any evidence of this? i mean the 1964 civil rights agreement is basically all of jfk's talking points where did he steal them from lbj? the entire democratic party at the time liked the idea of freedom, i know that might be a shock. but nothing got done until jfk and even lbj says he just continued what jfk started. Don't bring irrelevant other topics into this, please? That's got nothing to do with the issue at hand.
May 24, 200620 yr Author Johnson urged Kennedy to take a moral stance for civil rights, never happening due to Kennedy being assassinated. so wait despite all of what kennedy did you say he didn't have a moral stance on civil rights? oh man... :lol :lol kennedy got the ball rolling and got things done before lbj did. jfk protected the grass root civil rights movements, and gave speeches, one quoted above, with a clear stance on civil rights. and lbj urged the congress and house to pass what they did in 1964 in memory to what jfk said and did. and you are saying he didn't have a stance on civil rights before his death? :lol :lol :lol
May 24, 200620 yr obviously you are not reading. Again LBJ was getting into the Civil Rights movement politically in the 50s, that comes before the Kennedy administration in case you cant follow things chronologically. I know what LBJ did, but regardless, most of the ideas of the Civil Rights movement came about due in large to Johnson's work as VP. I never said Kennedy wasnt for Civil Rights, just that Johnson was the bigger influence on the Civil Rights act. I dont know if Kennedy ever did make that moral commitement to Civil Rights, I can tell you that Johnson had been urging him to do so early in 1963 before he was shot. That's right Johnson was urging him to do so. Show me where Kennedy was doing stuff for the Civil Rights movement prior to his Presidency. Thanks.
May 24, 200620 yr Author Again LBJ was getting into the Civil Rights movement politically in the 50s, that comes before the Kennedy administration in case you cant follow things chronologically. but there were more people than just lbj in that. so why don't you credit them all? also if they did such a good job why did they wait until 1964 to get stuff done? :mischief I know what LBJ did, but regardless, most of the ideas of the Civil Rights movement came about due in large to Johnson's work as VP. wait a white man veep came up with the idea of a civil rights movement? and for me to think black people came up with the idea of getting freedom for themselves, i guess we've all had it wrong all along. naacp, who are they? lbj and other democrats laid the ground work, jfk is the first to get real action done and forced the issue and then lbj came in and finished things off in jfk's memory I never said Kennedy wasnt for Civil Rights, just that Johnson was the bigger influence on the Civil Rights act. then why did he use jfk's ghost to try and pass it? lbj begged politicians to pass the CR acts to honor JFK. if he thought it was his idea he wouldn't have done it. I dont know if Kennedy ever did make that moral commitement to Civil Rights, I can tell you that Johnson had been urging him to do so early in 1963 before he was shot. That's right Johnson was urging him to do so. just because someone urged him to do it doesn't mean he didn't already think it. Show me where Kennedy was doing stuff for the Civil Rights movement prior to his Presidency. show me where anyone started sending us marshals to protect black protestors and try to end segregation before him. in 1962, a whole year before you say lbj really started grilling him he send 400 federal marshals and 4000 troops so james meredith could sign up for classes at u. of miss. in 1961 he began to protect freedom riders in 1960 during the campaign, before he was prez. or lbj was his veep, he had numerous conversations with coretta scott king in support of her husband. yes it sounds to me he really had no idea where he stood on the civil rights issue before he died and like he really needed grilling from lbj. :plain and here is a nice little snippet of jfk even before he was president that shows his stance on the CR issues, even before he really had lbj at his side since this was 2 months before the election: STATEMENT ON CIVIL RIGHTS LEGISLATION SEPTEMBER 1, 1960. The following 23 Senators, who with Senator Kennedy and a few others (including 5 Republicans) supported each of the key civil rights measures this session, joined Senator Kennedy in the attached joint statement. E. L. Bartlett, Alaska John A. Carroll, Colorado Joseph S. Clark, Pennsylvania Clair Engle, California Ernest Gruening, Alaska Philip A. Hart, Michigan Vance Hartke, Indiana Thomas C. Hennings, Jr., Missouri Hubert H. Humphrey, Minnesota Henry M. Jackson, Washington John F. Kennedy, Massachusetts Warren G. Magnuson, Washington Eugene J. McCarthy, Minnesota Pat McNamara, Michigan Wayne Morse, Oregon Frank E. Moss, Utah James E. Murray, Montana Edmund S. Muskie, Maine John O. Pastore, Rhode Island William Proxmire, Wisconsin Jennings W. Randolph, West Virginia Stuart Symington, Missouri Harrison A. Williams, Jr., New Jersey Stephen M. Young, Ohio [From the Office of Senator John F. Kennedy, Room 362, Senate Office Bldg., Sept. 1, l960] STATEMENT The time has come to set the record straight on civil rights legislation in this windup session of Congress. All the Senators joining me in this statement, as well as many others sharing these views, support effective civil rights legislation. We have not tried to match the 11th hour Republican tactic of substituting staged political maneuvering for effective legislation. Rather than yield to their efforts to play politics with a great moral question, we will take this issue to the American people. The Republican leadership of the Senate knows full well that under the parliamentary situation of these final crowded weeks - and in the political atmosphere of rancor that developed - no significant civil rights measure could have passed. This same political atmosphere has also prevented action on a farm bill and on adequate minimum wage, housing, health care for the aged, and education bills. But progressive legislation has not been the aim of the Republican leadership. Their aim has been: (1) To block the minimum wage bill (which in its first year of operation would have raised the wages of an estimated 1 million Negro workers), the aged health care, housing, and education bills (which also would have meant major advances in the rights of our lower income and minority group members). A majority of Republicans voted against the minimum wage bill, all but one voted against social security health care for the aged and not one Republican on the House Rules Committee was ready to let adequate education and housing bills come up for final action. (2) To embarrass the Democratic Party, which can point with pride not only to a more meaningful platform but to the only record of legislative achievement in this field in over three-quarters of a century. (3) To conceal their own empty, negative record. If the majority of Republicans were sincere about the two token proposals they now press, they would not have supplied the votes that defeated them this spring, when, led by the minority leader, they proposed by a 2-1 margin the very bills he now advances. If the Republican administration were sincere about its pleas for civil rights, it would take executive action now - executive action to end inequality in all Federal housing programs as the Civil Rights Commission unanimously proposed nearly a year ago and which the President could do by a stroke of his pen - and executive action to make effective the Government Contracts Committee, which for 7 years of Mr. Nixon's chairmanship has taken no enforcement action aside from one or two threats in the District of Columbia. Such Presidential action, not legislation, is what is required to enforce the covenants against racial discrimination in all Government contracts. And if the Republican administration were sincere in advancing civil rights it would make more effective use of the new powers to protect the right to vote granted by Congress after 9 weeks of debate earlier this session. We challenge the Republican leadership's sincerity - and we think the American people will challenge it. We believe our credentials are clear. On each of the key votes this session - the votes for cloture, for title III authorization of civil rights suits by the Attorney General and for the strengthening of the proposed machinery to protect the right to vote as well as for the two measures which were belatedly pressed - a majority of the Republicans voted against civil rights, while we were supporting civil rights. Only five Republican Senators had a similar record in support of civil rights on these five key issues this session - and they did not have the support of the Republican administration at any critical point. This past record, including the record of these recent weeks, indicates that no action on the great fronts of social legislation, including civil rights, will be possible until there is a new President strongly supporting such action and a new Congress with a mandate from the people. Therefore, we pledge action to obtain consideration of a civil rights bill by the Senate early next session that will implement the pledges of the Democratic platform. Our purpose will be to assure to each American his full constitutional rights and to "make equal opportunity a living reality for all Americans." SEPARATE STATEMENT BY SENATOR KENNEDY In order to implement this pledge and assure prompt action I have asked Senator Clark and Congressman Celler to constitute a committee to prepare a comprehensive civil rights bill, embodying our platform commitments, for introduction at the beginning of the next session. We will seek the enactment of this bill early in that Congress. Further, I give my assurance that in whatever position I hold in public office I will support and take every step necessary to protect the full constitutional right of every American. http://www.jfklink.com/speeches/jfk/sept60...0960_civil.html
May 24, 200620 yr and yet nothing from the 1950s. once you show me something from this decade I will respond to the rest you have there. thats all i ask PhishPhan
May 24, 200620 yr Author and yet nothing from the 1950s. now about the 1950s all of a sudden? what happened with before his presidency? quit trolling and give it up and go read and learn something. I dont know if Kennedy ever did make that moral commitement to Civil Rights Johnson urged Kennedy to take a moral stance for civil rights, never happening due to Kennedy being assassinated. :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol In order to implement this pledge and assure prompt action I have asked Senator Clark and Congressman Celler to constitute a committee to prepare a comprehensive civil rights bill, embodying our platform commitments, for introduction at the beginning of the next session. We will seek the enactment of this bill early in that Congress. Further, I give my assurance that in whatever position I hold in public office I will support and take every step necessary to protect the full constitutional right of every American. Next week I shall ask the Congress of the United States to act, to make a commitment it has not fully made in this century to the proposition that race has no place in American life or law. The Federal judiciary has upheld that proposition in a series of forthright cases. The Executive Branch has adopted that proposition in the conduct of its affairs, including the employment of Federal personnel, the use of Federal facilities, and the sale of federally financed housing. But there are other necessary measures which only the Congress can provide, and they must be provided at this session. The old code of equity law under which we live commands for every wrong a remedy, but in too many communities, in too many parts of the country, wrongs are inflicted on Negro citizens and there are no remedies at law. Unless the Congress acts, their only remedy is the street. I am, therefore, asking the Congress to enact legislation giving all Americans the right to be served in facilities which are open to the public -- hotels, restaurants, theaters, retail stores, and similar establishments. This seems to me to be an elementary right. Its denial is an arbitrary indignity that no American in 1963 should have to endure, but many do. I have recently met with scores of business leaders urging them to take voluntary action to end this discrimination, and I have been encouraged by their response, and in the last two weeks over 75 cities have seen progress made in desegregating these kinds of facilities. But many are unwilling to act alone, and for this reason, nationwide legislation is needed if we are to move this problem from the streets to the courts. I'm also asking the Congress to authorize the Federal Government to participate more fully in lawsuits designed to end segregation in public education. We have succeeded in persuading many districts to desegregate voluntarily. Dozens have admitted Negroes without violence. Today, a Negro is attending a State-supported institution in every one of our 50 States, but the pace is very slow. Too many Negro children entering segregated grade schools at the time of the Supreme Court's decision nine years ago will enter segregated high schools this fall, having suffered a loss which can never be restored. The lack of an adequate education denies the Negro a chance to get a decent job. in 1962, a whole year before you say lbj really started grilling him he send 400 federal marshals and 4000 troops so james meredith could sign up for classes at u. of miss. in 1961 he began to protect freedom riders in 1960 during the campaign, before he was prez. or lbj was his veep, he had numerous conversations with coretta scott king in support of her husband. :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol for someone torn about an issue and for someone who didn't know where he stood on an issue he seemed to have pretty solid footing on it.
May 24, 200620 yr LBJ was already on this issue in 1957 and really already in 1954 with Brown V Board of Education. Thanks, and I had already referenced Johnson's work in the 50s so its not like its something new I'm talking about, I have been asking you about this for about 4 posts now, you just have selective reading.
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