Hope this is the right forum for this mods.................

 

M Doobakus and I were having a heated discussion about this ealier.

 

My contention was that SoFla is a terrible sports town (everyone here is a fan but there are about 20,000 (if that) die hard Marlins fans in ALL of SoFla). I know its poor timing with the Heat on the verge of the Eastern Conference Finals but I feel that with the exception of football, South Florida is a below average sports town.

 

One of the other points I made was that having an NFL team is NOT a pre-requisite for being a bona fide sports town. (It should be noted that I am not a professional football fan).

 

Doobakus made some valid points and hopefully he will reiterate some of his opinions for this thread.

It's a bandwagon town.

What other town can have a team like UM football, consistently among the nation's elite but rarely playing infront of sellouts?

Everyone shows up the Heat games late.

The Dolphins get their fans but the Marlins and Panthers don't seem to have anyone care about what they do.

 

Miami just doesn't seem to have the same sports buzz that other cities have. Sure they have all the teams, but other cities seem to live and die with their teams more.

Better question..........

 

 

Since when is South Florida a town?

 

 

:blink:

In Columbus we don't have the teams but we draw the fans.

 

The Columbus Crew (MLS), Columbus Blue Jackets (NHL) frequently sell out. The Clippers don't do great but they're not hurting either, but what the hey. The Buckeyes, forget about it, I can't remember the last time the 'Shoe wasn't sold out. High school football is always crazy every year, too.

 

We just don't have the teams, sadly. But, a lot of people go to Cavs, Indians, Reds, Bengals and Browns games from here, too. We desperately want to be a sports town, but it just ain't in the cards.

Better question..........

 

 

Since when is South Florida a town?

 

 

:blink:

 

 

 

You know what we're talking about. OK lets just say Miami for those that need it SPELLED OUT for them.

 

:chair

Outside of the Dolphins, Miami is a terrible sports town. The Fins are just sort of grandfathered in and everyone likes them.

It's an interesting question because I promise you if you ask this same question over at finheaven.com they will tell you that Miami is a fantastic sports town. Baseball fans in this city often have more of a contentious relationship with the rest of the fans of the city, and call them terrible and what-not just because they don't support the Marlins. I have seen people throw feces at the Dolphins on here simply out of bitterness for all the support they get.

 

Football is the #1 sport in this country by a significant margin. You can argue that all you want, but in terms of every possible barometer I can think of, football is king. Baseball's only advantage is it's history, and, well, they've done a pretty good job of sh*tting all over that in the last decade or so. I will continue to maintain that you simply cannot be considered a top sports town if you don't have a pro football team, and yes, that includes LA. Not to mention LA fans have built a reputation over the years as the fans most likely to leave games early in order to beat traffic. And with traffic like that, who can blame them.

 

Anyway, to call South Florida a terrible sports town, to me, is ridiculous. By virtue of having even one professional team, it is probably one of the top 50 sports towns in the country. However, when take the Dolphins and Canes...who both inspire a lot of passion and excitement, and who both have a lot of history...and then throw in the fact that we are represented in all 4 major sports, are home to an ACC basketball team, and host events ranging from the Doral to the "Lipton" tennis tournament, and that crazy racing thing they do in Miami every year...to call this anything less than a Top 15 sports town at the very worst is insane...no offense.

 

And I have yet to even mention the Heat...where every game feels like an event. They'll be selling out games for the next 15 years, at the very least.

 

Sorry if this is the worst major league baseball town there is. The fact is...it is a major league baseball town, and that means it's a Top 30 baseball town...and THAT is the worst thing you can say about South Florida as a sports town.

Outside of the Dolphins, Miami is a terrible sports town. The Fins are just sort of grandfathered in and everyone likes them.

 

 

 

I agree. And just for clarification Im not comparing South Florida (Miami for FeLo) to small towns in the middle of North Dakota. Im comparing it with other living and breathing big cities (even ones without all of the big 4 sports such as Los Angeles).

I'm trying to think about it, and I'm pretty sure Da U is the single best big city collegiate sports program there is. LA may have us beat overall with their USC/UCLA combo, but neither one of those programs stacks up to Miami overall...at least not in my estimation. USC, maybe you can make an arguement.

 

 

Outside of the Dolphins, Miami is a terrible sports town. The Fins are just sort of grandfathered in and everyone likes them.

 

 

 

I agree. And just for clarification Im not comparing South Florida (Miami for FeLo) to small towns in the middle of North Dakota. Im comparing it with other living and breathing big cities (even ones without all of the big 4 sports such as Los Angeles).

 

No, well now you're kind of shifting your original point a little bit. Originally, you said that one of the reasons South Florida was a crappy place to live was because it is a terrible sports town. I can't be blamed for taking that to mean in comparison to the rest of the towns in this country, which are all in fact viable places to live, even those that have no sports whatsoever.

 

As I said earlier, probably something like 90% of the people in this country live in sports towns that are far worse than Miami. Now you're kind of shifting the arguement to include only the cream of the crop. I've already more or less granted you that Miami is near the bottom in terms of 4 sport cities. But it IS a 4 sport city and that's worth a lot.

What do you expect? The Marlins were created in '93, Heat in '88, Panthers in '93 (Not too sure what year they came in, I'm assuming 1993) and we have lots of people who moved from places up north who already have roots set in another team and with the computer and satellite tv, you can watch them instead of any teams down here. Dolphins came 40 years ago, so lots of people have roots with them but other than that, it's not a big surprise. It's a sports town, just not a Florida sports town in baseball, basketball, and hockey.

I'm trying to think about it, and I'm pretty sure Da U is the single best big city collegiate sports program there is. LA may have us beat overall with their USC/UCLA combo, but neither one of those programs stacks up to Miami overall...at least not in my estimation. USC, maybe you can make an arguement.

 

 

 

Outside of the Dolphins, Miami is a terrible sports town. The Fins are just sort of grandfathered in and everyone likes them.

 

 

 

I agree. And just for clarification Im not comparing South Florida (Miami for FeLo) to small towns in the middle of North Dakota. Im comparing it with other living and breathing big cities (even ones without all of the big 4 sports such as Los Angeles).

 

No, well now you're kind of shifting your original point a little bit. Originally, you said that one of the reasons South Florida was a crappy place to live was because it is a terrible sports town. I can't be blamed for taking that to mean in comparison to the rest of the towns in this country, which are all in fact viable places to live, even those that have no sports whatsoever.

 

As I said earlier, probably something like 90% of the people in this country live in sports towns that are far worse than Miami. Now you're kind of shifting the arguement to include only the cream of the crop. I've already more or less granted you that Miami is near the bottom in terms of 4 sport cities. But it IS a 4 sport city and that's worth a lot.

 

OK that explains why we were butting heads so much. I meant SoFla was a terrible sports town in terms of big cities. I wasnt comparing it to Maynards Creek,TN ( if such a place exists).

 

For the sole sake of continuing this argument :mischief2 , I believe you made a reference to the Heat selling out all their games for the next 15 years........unless the Heat fans are dressing up as empty yellow/orange seats I believe that will be very unlikely.

And I have yet to even mention the Heat...where every game feels like an event. They'll be selling out games for the next 15 years, at the very least.

 

 

Where were you in 2003?

 

The Heat are very lucky they have 2 of the most like 7 or 8 exciting players in the league.

Shaq and DWade are huge draws.

 

But there weren't this many Heat fans in the days of Odom and Caron.

I figure as long as Wade is here, they'll continue to sell out. He's only going to grow in terms of stature and star power and all that. He'll be the guy that everyone thinks of first when you say Miami Heat. He's certainly worth the price of admission; I know we'll never give our seats up as long as he's there.

In 20 years we should have this discussion. The Panthers regularly sold out when the team was good. And then management repeatedly split up the team and the sport became boring to watch to the average fan. When the Panthers mattered again this year and hockey was high paced again, the fans showed up. The Heat always had good crowds until the three year rebuilding period. (Three years?!? That is ridiculous...). The Dolphins were the first professional team in town. So its no wonder why it draws the best. And for the point about Da U. Most Miami fans know that the great majority of the fan base of the Canes is in the Northeast/New England area. There are also a million and one things people would rather do than sit in the Orange Bowl in 90 degree weather in the middle of summer/fall.

And I have yet to even mention the Heat...where every game feels like an event. They'll be selling out games for the next 15 years, at the very least.

 

 

Where were you in 2003?

 

The Heat are very lucky they have 2 of the most like 7 or 8 exciting players in the league.

Shaq and DWade are huge draws.

 

But there weren't this many Heat fans in the days of Odom and Caron.

 

That's not entirely true. People conveniently forget how Heat basketball caught on before Shaq came. There were a lot of sellouts in the latter half of the 2003-2004 season because the team was young and fun to watch. They had 3 absolutely brutal teams in the 3 years before that, and that gradually killed interest...but over the length of the franchise's history, the Heat have by and large been a hot ticket. The Miami Arena was always rocking.

 

And whatever. Even if you're right and all the Heat fans are bandwagoners, what's it matter...South Florida will continue to be the home to Dwyane Wade for the next 12-15 years, and there ain't nothing bad about that.

And I have yet to even mention the Heat...where every game feels like an event. They'll be selling out games for the next 15 years, at the very least.

 

 

Where were you in 2003?

 

The Heat are very lucky they have 2 of the most like 7 or 8 exciting players in the league.

Shaq and DWade are huge draws.

 

But there weren't this many Heat fans in the days of Odom and Caron.

 

That's not entirely true. People conveniently forget how Heat basketball caught on before Shaq came. There were a lot of sellouts in the latter half of the 2003-2004 season because the team was young and fun to watch. They had 3 absolutely brutal teams in the 3 years before that, and that gradually killed interest...but over the length of the franchise's history, the Heat have by and large been a hot ticket. The Miami Arena was always rocking.

 

And whatever. Even if you're right and all the Heat fans are bandwagoners, what's it matter...South Florida will continue to be the home to Dwyane Wade for the next 12-15 years, and there ain't nothing bad about that.

The thing that excites me so much about Wade is he's so young and he's going to get better and better.

If he stays here, wins a few rings etc, he's going to be the face of Miami.

And I have yet to even mention the Heat...where every game feels like an event. They'll be selling out games for the next 15 years, at the very least.

 

 

Where were you in 2003?

 

The Heat are very lucky they have 2 of the most like 7 or 8 exciting players in the league.

Shaq and DWade are huge draws.

 

But there weren't this many Heat fans in the days of Odom and Caron.

 

That's not entirely true. People conveniently forget how Heat basketball caught on before Shaq came. There were a lot of sellouts in the latter half of the 2003-2004 season because the team was young and fun to watch. They had 3 absolutely brutal teams in the 3 years before that, and that gradually killed interest...but over the length of the franchise's history, the Heat have by and large been a hot ticket. The Miami Arena was always rocking.

 

And whatever. Even if you're right and all the Heat fans are bandwagoners, what's it matter...South Florida will continue to be the home to Dwyane Wade for the next 12-15 years, and there ain't nothing bad about that.

 

 

Unfortunately I dont think having D-Wade will translate into endless sellouts at the AAA for the Heat (which supports my "Miami sucks as a sports town" theory)

This won't make me any friends, but as an outsider south Florida fans are seen as some of the biggest bandwagoners around.

Didn't you throw all your support at like 3 different teams at 3 different times during the NCAA tournament?

I'd have to agree with the person above who said that it's because of the youth of several sports franchises. Growing up on Long Island, your sports loyalties were like a heritage passed on from generation to generation. My grandfather was a Dodgers/Mets fan, my father a Mets fan, and they both passed that down to me. My favorite player remains Howard Johnson, a admittedly mediocre player who was really a flash in pan -- but because I was 5 when he was playing in his prime, he's like a mythical figure to me now. Anyways, that could obviously change as the years go on in Sotuh Florida (and provided the teams are given a chance to stay).

Look how long it took the Yankees to regain fans after the Yankees had many down seasons.

South Florida is a great sports town.

 

You all arent looking at the facts, no they wont draw for the new and young local teams as much. But that is because the people here are from elsewhere. They are from Ohio or Pitt, or NY and they follow their own home teams.

 

But that doesnt make it a bad sports town. It just means that they need time to grow up and follow the local teams. The dolphins needed the same, the Heat needed the same.

 

So do the marlins and Panthers, which is why they need to keep around faces (miggy and willis, wade, luongo), so that people can grow up following them and their teams here. Not just keep to the mets, reds, steelers, etc..

 

So yes South florida is a top 10 sports town. But it is a town fill with a diverse populace that has different experiences and beliefs on what teams they follow. There is more yankee fans in south florida then marlins fans because people grew up here watching the yankees in NY or even grew up here watching them in fort lauderdale.

 

I was one of them, I just root for the fish too.

 

This won't make me any friends, but as an outsider south Florida fans are seen as some of the biggest bandwagoners around.

 

 

 

you can say the same of NY fans, LA fans, and fans of every area. The reds werent drawing now they do because they are winning, heck even now they dont draw that great. Cleveland didnt draw while they were rebuilding. In the 80s the yanks didnt draw worth crap. The mets were horrible draws before 2000.

 

Need I go on?

Miami isn't a sports town in that people live and die for their teams, but at least there's always a game to go down here.

This is a bandwagon town.

 

I think the main reason is that the only team in this city before the late 1980's was the Dolphins. The Heat were pretty much ignored until we got Riley and 'Zo anyway.

 

People still seem to follow the Dolphins and sell out games, even when we go 4-12. I think that's because there is actually a history of the Dolphins and their fans here, as opposed to teams like the Panthers, Marlins, and Heat.

 

The winning ways of the Heat the last 10 years or so have made them the second most popular team in the city, behind the 'Phins of course. Things changed a lot once Riley arrived and took charge.

 

The Marlins in 1997 were approaching a period where they might have kept most of their World Series fans, but the team was taken apart, and it took about 5-6 years for those people to start coming back. Then, once again, not long after another WS, we took apart the team and all recognizable players (except for two). Doing this twice makes it even less likely that people will eventually return.

 

The Panthers were only popular when we went to the Stanley Cup in 1996, and got destroyed. There was Panther-mania for a few months during the playoffs, but that was it. The recent hockey season cancellation really killed any remaining interest in the sport down here. Constant losing isn't going to bring in fans. They have not done anything worth noticing in a decade now.

I never understood the argument - "Well there's so many other things to do"

 

If people choose to do those "other" things, then the town is not a good sports town. A good sports town will choose not to do the "other" things and watch the sport. Those would be good sports fans.

 

And the heat has nothing to do with anything. Do you think it doesn't get hot on a Saturday afternoon in Athens, GA or Tuscaloosa, AL?

 

At this point Miami is an awful sports town. It will take time to grow the fanbases because of the "newness" of the teams which was stated above. The Dolphins have a solid fanbase because they've been around a while. That should happen with the Heat and Panthers (If they put a good product out there). The Marlins? I don't know.

 

But 20K empty seats for the home opener at the Orange Bowl last season? Inexcusable.