June 26, 200620 yr Help settle an arguement I'm having with a friend. Purely based on stats, who would you rather have batting leadoff. Player 1: .300 avg .371 OBP 87 hits 34 BB 42 SO 57 runs 16 SB 11 HR Player 2: .302 avg .361 OBP 98 hits 29 BB 39 SO 67 runs 34 SB 8 HR
June 26, 200620 yr Author Jose Reyes over Johnny Damon And my point is that Jose Reyes, widely considererd by the media to be one of the worst leadoff hitters in baseball, is better than Johnny Damon, one of the better leadoff men.
June 26, 200620 yr I think you almost always go with the guy with the higher OBP. That's really the most important thing for a leadoff guy--to lead off by getting on base. And I happen to dislike Reyes quite a bit, so my opinion probably is tainted.
June 26, 200620 yr Coco Crisp is also a better leadoff man than Damon, or at least it is debatable. I thought this was going to be a Wright vs Cabrera thread. Like the ones all over the ESPN boards. But I like Reyes, he just came onto the scene so young, alot of people wrote what he did for the longest time off.
June 26, 200620 yr Coco Crisp is also a better leadoff man than Damon, or at least it is debatable. I thought this was going to be a Wright vs Cabrera thread. Like the ones all over the ESPN boards. But I like Reyes, he just came onto the scene so young, alot of people wrote what he did for the longest time off. No, no he isn't. At least not right now. Crisp isn't even the best leadoff hitter on his own team.
June 26, 200620 yr I said its debatable. ESPN or SI one did a side by side comparisson of stats as leadoff men, and also factored in age and salary, and Crisp came out on top.
June 26, 200620 yr No, it is not debateable. Money and age have nothing to do with who is the better leadoff hitter right now. I think Crisp in the long run and injury free is definitely the better move for the Red Sox but as of right now Damon kills Crisp. I don't believe that Crisp is even a leadoff hitter anymore either. .271/.312/.383 vs. .300/.371/.486 It's not close.
June 26, 200620 yr Author I think you almost always go with the guy with the higher OBP. That's really the most important thing for a leadoff guy--to lead off by getting on base. And I happen to dislike Reyes quite a bit, so my opinion probably is tainted. I have to disagree. Scoring and creating runs on the basepaths is the most important thing for a leadoff hitter. Reyes is the best in baseball when it comes to that. Don't get me wrong, OBP is a great stat for judging the effectiveness of a leadoff hitter but it's been vastly overrated with the popularity of Billy Beane, Bill James, and Sabermetrics. And in a sitaution like this where Reyes does inifinitely more on the basepaths, scores at a higher clip, and gets on base almost as much as Damon I think it's a little deceiving.
June 26, 200620 yr Player 1. Higher OBP. Comparable extra bases (1 HR = 4 SB, if not more because HRs can advance baserunners)
June 26, 200620 yr Really, OPS is a great stat because it also factors in x-base hits and total bases overall. I think to make a good comparison you need to compare OPS as well as runs scored. A good leadoff hitter will create runs by getting on base and having a pretty high number of total bases overall. These players are pretty even, but I'd take Reyes over Damon because he gets more extra base hits (2B, 3B), more steals and has scored more runs. A lot of scoring runs has to do with who hits behind you and how they're performing, but when you're getting a lot of total bases scoring runs becomes a whole lot easier no matter what.
June 26, 200620 yr Exactly. Run production is run peroduction anywhere in the lineup. A leadoff hitter has to serve many roles, and can help his team by hitting a double into the gap same as singling up the middle and stealing. People who suggest Reyes is an excellent leadoff hitter have preconceived notions of what a leadoff hitter is and is not, whereas really it is simply one of the nine spots a team's players bat in order from.
June 26, 200620 yr FWIW. Damon actually has a higher predicted RPG (how many runs a team made up of the single player would score a game that includes BB, IBB, HBP, SB, CS, Sac Hits/Flys, and 1B, 2B, 3B, and HRs) than Reyes. 6.57 to 6.38. That slightly changes my perception because I've always felt predicted RPG is the best way to determine offensive value. Still I take Reyes because he is still piling on numbers due to his hot streak and his youth and speed.
June 26, 200620 yr Really, these guys are so close in almost all of the "important" categories I would take either. For some reason I overlooked the BB category. BTW Passion, where do you find the RPG stat?
June 26, 200620 yr Reyes is the better player, no doubt, but Damon is the better leadoff hitter Reyes doesn't draw as many walks or take as many pitches as I would like my leadoff guy to do... But all this means is, I would take Reyes on my team anyday, but if they were on the same team, I would put Damon in the leadoff spot instead of Reyes
June 26, 200620 yr I'd take Reyes because of his youth, contract Exactly, Damon is pretty much in his prime, while Reyes has yet to reach his potentional and already puts up similiar numbers.
June 26, 200620 yr Johnny Damon has been the Yankees second best hitter this year. Jose Reyes has come on VERY strong over the past 2 weeks, but I can't ignore the other 2 months of the season where he had a .300 OBP and a .250 BA. 2 weeks doesnt make me ignore the rest of the season. His numbers are greatly distorted. I'd rather have the consistent player then the guy who hit .250/.300 for 2 months and then has gone on a ridiculous tear for 2 weeks, greatly inflating his statistics. If Reyes was consistent, he'd be my choice. EDIT: Obviously if this was a long term I'd pick Reyes, and so would any other sane person. But that's not the question, it's who is the best leadoff hitter right now.
June 26, 200620 yr Player 3: .320 avg .380 OBP 93 hits 20 BB 19 SO 45 runs 5 SB 1 HR - That's Eckstein as you can notice by the one HR.. Hah kidding.. I'll take Damon over Reyes although I love Reyes.. he just now started coming on strong!
June 27, 200620 yr i gotta go w/ damon....they both hit for good averages ,but damon has more power, which is a plus
June 27, 200620 yr Lets have this debate when Reyes is in one his terrible slumps and not when he is lights out. Id be curious to hear the answers to this question then.
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