you are an idiot.

 

if your "closer" can't hold a 4 run lead...do you really think this is a "good team"?

 

if your centerfielder goes back for five seconds on a bloop...does that make us a "good team"?

 

how about your shortstop dropping a sure out?

 

or your left-fielder overrunning a likely out at the plate?

 

the players lost this game, not girardi. the simple fact that anyone is trying to put the blame on the manager's shoulders after that display is absolutley mind boggling.

Ignoring the ad hominem part of your nonsense...

• If your closer has been blowing saves lately (which Borowski has at an insane pace), you get someone up when he starts getting hit hard, like Borowski was. Doesn't take much of a mental leap to come to this conclusion....err, apparently it does. Nevermind.
  
• There's a rule in gambling and in life: You don't bet against the streak. Reggie Abercrombie has done this all year, why is he suddenly going to learn how to catch a fly ball?
  
• That play was 60% Uggla's fault, 40% Hanley's, and has already been addressed.
  
• Willingham didn't serve up a pitch that delivered a hard single which would have scored the tying run even without the error. Like I said, you don't bet against the streak.....Borowski had just served up 4 and no one was warming up. Winning run was coming next at bat anyways.
  

Cute attempts, though.

 

You kinda forgot the ball that Willingham let roll to the wall.

 

:lol

 

Nope, you forgot to read the part where I mentioned it.

If Reggie Abercrombie was not in, and Eric Reed was, we win.

 

 

so we lost because Girardi put in Abercrombie instead of Reed?

 

right....

 

you Girardi bashers are hysterical.

 

For the record, I am an Abercrombie basher! :lol

 

so am i...but if you are a manager and you have a "major league" center-fielder, he should make those plays...especially the second on.

 

abercrombie has no business being in the majors...and it unfortunatley cost us today.

 

I don't want to pile on Girardi cause he didn't cost us this game, but Reed is a defensive replacement, Abercromie's sole merit is as a pinch runner.

Hmm....I'm PRETTY sure there was a post by Ramp in here earlier (i.e. before the meltdown), but I don't see it now......

 

 

:whistle

Hmm....I'm PRETTY sure there was a post by Ramp in here earlier (i.e. before the meltdown), but I don't see it now......

 

 

:whistle

 

if it means anything, I erased it when we still had a 2 run lead

quote]

Ignoring the ad hominem part of your nonsense...

• If your closer has been blowing saves lately (which Borowski has at an insane pace), you get someone up when he starts getting hit hard, like Borowski was. Doesn't take much of a mental leap to come to this conclusion....err, apparently it does. Nevermind.
   
   
  hmmm...
   
  i remember a certain billy wagner "blowing saves at an insane pace" earlier this year...only to blow a 4 run lead to the new york yankees.
   
  did the mets warm anyone up? nope.
   
  is willy randolph an idiot too? are you delusional enough to think you know more than major league managers?
   
  borowski/wagner are the closers...any other reliever and you warm someone up and bring them in...but your closer has to be able to hold a 4 run lead. period.
   
   
  
• There's a rule in gambling and in life: You don't bet against the streak. Reggie Abercrombie has done this all year, why is he suddenly going to learn how to catch a fly ball?
   
   
  considering he is still in the majors, yes, he should know how to catch a fly ball.
   
  if he can't, he should't be in the majors...
   
  girardi didn't miss those fly balls, either, abercrombie did. no playoff contender would have anyone on their team make such costly mistakes. this is a team, not a select few good players winning...anyone he puts out there should make the routine baseball plays.
   
   
   
  
• That play was 60% Uggla's fault, 40% Hanley's, and has already been addressed.
   
   
   
  and 0% girardi's fault.
   
  thanks for proving my point, einstein.
   
   
  
• Willingham didn't serve up a pitch that delivered a hard single which would have scored the tying run even without the error. Like I said, you don't bet against the streak.....Borowski had just served up 4 and no one was warming up. Winning run was coming next at bat anyways.
  

 

hmmm...willingham...borowski....any mention of girardi?

 

if you want to say borowski sucks, go right ahead, he has been terrible...and this type of stuff happens when your closer is terrible. if your closer can't hold a 4 run lead, you don't belong in the postseason...period.

 

Cute attempts, though.

 

:lol

 

you sure are witty...

Hmm....I'm PRETTY sure there was a post by Ramp in here earlier (i.e. before the meltdown), but I don't see it now......

 

 

:whistle

 

if it means anything, I erased it when we still had a 2 run lead

Ah, okay :thumbup

Billy Wagner and Randolph are both overrated.

 

yep... Randolph is an idiot

 

but so is every other manager it seems like

I would think Marlins fans would want to hang on to Kranitz and Presley as well as Perry Hill - especially seeing how our starting pitchers have developed and how our offense has been explosive this season.

 

Incidentally, CONGRATS to the Marlins for breaking the Marlins seaons homerun record - pretty freaking amazing. What a year it's been...

 

I say bring back the staff with an improved bullpen and a centerfielder. I like our chances!

hmmm...

 

i remember a certain billy wagner "blowing saves at an insane pace" earlier this year...only to blow a 4 run lead to the new york yankees.

 

did the mets warm anyone up? nope.

 

is willy randolph an idiot too? are you delusional enough to think you know more than major league managers?

 

borowski/wagner are the closers...any other reliever and you warm someone up and bring them in...but your closer has to be able to hold a 4 run lead. period.

 

considering he is still in the majors, yes, he should know how to catch a fly ball.

 

if he can't, he should't be in the majors...

 

girardi didn't miss those fly balls, either, abercrombie did. no playoff contender would have anyone on their team make such costly mistakes. this is a team, not a select few good players winning...anyone he puts out there should make the routine baseball plays.

 

 

and 0% girardi's fault.

 

thanks for proving my point, einstein.

 

hmmm...willingham...borowski....any mention of girardi?

 

if you want to say borowski sucks, go right ahead, he has been terrible...and this type of stuff happens when your closer is terrible. if your closer can't hold a 4 run lead, you don't belong in the postseason...period.

 

:lol

 

you sure are witty...

 

• Ask Met fans what they think of Randolph. And a certain Mr. LaRussa warms up relievers behind Isringausen, because Iggy's struggled this year. Who's a better manager? And besides, your Wagner example is moot because it didn't happen in a playoff run.
  
• The closer sucks, great point. If you're so astute to know that, shouldn't the manager know that and um, I don't know, find someone else to do the job?
  
• Nope, Girardi didn't miss them. But he made the incorrect call and put a player who has routinely blown that very play into the game. Is Abercrombie at fault? Yes. Is Girardi at fault? Yes.
  
• That play? No, it wasn't Girardi's fault. But you forgot to read my original post, that was the only play you can't cast blame on Borowski (and therefore, by power of the magical syllogism, Girardi's fault) for.
  
• Oh forgive me wise one, I got tired of saying "Girardi's fault" after a while. It's Girardi's fault because he left an inept closer in a game he was already failing, just like the games he had failed in the last two weeks. The closer then gave up a hard hit ball that tied the game, and an error ended the game though the next batter would have plated the winning run anyways so it didn't matter if the error was there anyways.
  

If you want to play the "Girardi doesn't throw/catch/pitch the balls" game, then be my guest. But that game is 100% incorrect and is a fallacy created by those who don't have the mental capacity to understand the game of baseball.

 

Also, the manager is supposed to use his knowledge to put the team in the best position to win. This is accomplished in two ways:

 

1. Knowing the abilities of your relievers. Putting the right reliever in at the right time and pulling him at the right time.

2. Knowing the abilities of your defensive players. Putting in a good centerfielder instead of a CF that should not even be playing at the major league level.

At least someone can understand what they're talking about.

Billy Wagner and Randolph are both overrated.

 

Also, the manager is supposed to use his knowledge to put the team in the best position to win. This is accomplished in two ways:

 

1. Knowing the abilities of your relievers. Putting the right reliever in at the right time and pulling him at the right time.

 

ok...closer (supposedly, your "best") in trying to protect a 4 run lead?

 

what am i missing?

 

you want him to take out borowski because hes struggling? whos he going to put in? resop?

 

just laughable.

 

 

 

2. Knowing the abilities of your defensive players. Putting in a good centerfielder instead of a CF that should not even be playing at the major league level.

 

...but he is at the major league level, and anyone here should make that play. ANYONE. it doesn't matter if it's Reed, Abercrombie or Andruw Jones.... anyone should make that play...and he didn't. that isn't girardi's fault, it's simply your centerfielder making a terrible play. who's to say Reed doesn't do the same thing?

 

that's the whole nature of second guessing..and that's why it is so frustrating and laughable to see posters like Juanky act as if they are the sayers of all that is true in the baseball world. if girardi would have done this or that we would have won...just hysterical.

 

i'll say this again....we lost this game because our players played like little-leaguers in the bottom half of the 10th. yes, borowski was struggling, but had our players made the plays behind him the game would have been over with a marlins victory - PERIOD!

 

they didn't, we lost. simple as that.

How can you have such a lack of logic? Just because you have a job doesn't mean you're good at doing every aspect of that job.

 

That's the most incredibly disgusting and incorrect assumption possible in sports (or in life).

Hmm....I'm PRETTY sure there was a post by Ramp in here earlier (i.e. before the meltdown), but I don't see it now......

 

 

:whistle

 

 

 

 

:lol

 

I know! I was trying to find that bad boy but after several attempts I gave up.

 

 

The post went missing kind of like Borowski's effectiveness.

 

:lol

dont forget willy had two errors out there too...which...were kinda big...this is only on girardi because of the team's meltdown which he ultimately is responsible for...but the team blew this one harder than jenna jameson...this was a team loss...hanley also dropped an easy out...we played like crap and paid for it with our season...hey, at least the dolphins and canes won...oh wait...

[*]Ask Met fans what they think of Randolph. And a certain Mr. LaRussa warms up relievers behind Isringausen, because Iggy's struggled this year. Who's a better manager? And besides, your Wagner example is moot because it didn't happen in a playoff run.

 

so because it didn't happen in a "playoff run" it justifies the (lack of) action? isn't a manager paid to try and win all 162 games?

 

LaRussa has a bullpen in St.Louis...it may not be as good as it has been in recent years, but they are still (at the very least) respectable...Girardi does not. He has minor leaguer after minor leaguer in his bullpen, Borowski is the only proven effective reliever and has done an excellent job the entire season save the last few weeks...

 

struggling or not, he's still, by far, a better option than anyone we had available...and even if we did have someone available, he wasn't struggling enough to consider a switch. he got outs, they werent excecuted behind him.

 

 

[*]The closer sucks, great point. If you're so astute to know that, shouldn't the manager know that and um, I don't know, find someone else to do the job?

 

we've been trying to find someone else who can do the job and everyone aside from tankersley and borowski have failed...miserably.

 

...have you been watching this team this season at all? you act as if you haven't. if it isn't an act, then you're just completely clueless.

 

[*]Nope, Girardi didn't miss them. But he made the incorrect call and put a player who has routinely blown that very play into the game. Is Abercrombie at fault? Yes. Is Girardi at fault? Yes.

 

i don't completely disagree with this...but it silly to blame the end result on the manager and act as if the players had nothing to do with it. yes, reed is a better defender but you don't need andruw jones to make those plays. they were routine, and if abercrombie can't do it he shouldn't be here...

 

...and he still is, so why no blame on beinfest?

 

[*]That play? No, it wasn't Girardi's fault. But you forgot to read my original post, that was the only play you can't cast blame on Borowski (and therefore, by power of the magical syllogism, Girardi's fault) for.

 

keep dancin' around the questions...it's very amusing.

 

[*]Oh forgive me wise one, I got tired of saying "Girardi's fault" after a while. It's Girardi's fault because he left an inept closer in a game he was already failing, just like the games he had failed in the last two weeks. The closer then gave up a hard hit ball that tied the game, and an error ended the game though the next batter would have plated the winning run anyways so it didn't matter if the error was there anyways.

 

borowski is suddenly inept because of a two-three week struggle? ever wonder why you aren't a major league manager?

 

he's been lights out for four months...and he goes through one rough patch and he's inept? funny.

 

some of the balls hit today were hit hard, but others werent and if the plays are made behind him we win the game. he's not an overpowering 1-2-3 pitcher, never has been. people are going to hit borowski and the plays need to be made. yes, he wasn't as sharp as he was early on this season, but he did get "outs"...two soft hit ground balls to uggla...a popup to short center...a hard hit (yet very catchable) ball to center....

 

doesn't sound like a pitcher who should be yanked to me...especially not a closer...with no viable options to replace him. get it?

 

 

 

 

If you want to play the "Girardi doesn't throw/catch/pitch the balls" game, then be my guest. But that game is 100% incorrect and is a fallacy created by those who don't have the mental capacity to understand the game of baseball.

 

:lol

 

yep, you know it all juanky.

 

get over yourself you egotistical clown.

 

Also, if you are the manager and you know you have a terrible bullpen you need to try to cut your losses by always having someone ready to pitch in a tight situation.

 

Well Girardi does have an awful bullpen to work with he needs to learn how to minimize the damage.

 

 

 

not your closer...who hasn't been part of that terrible bullpen for 9/10ths of the season.

 

one rough patch doesn't make a season...he's a much better option than anyone out there...and it's not even close.

Whenever you get over the ad hominem attacks and get to using some rational with a little bit of logic mixed in, we can chat about the tenth inning.

 

Until then I'll take a pass.

Also, if you are the manager and you know you have a terrible bullpen you need to try to cut your losses by always having someone ready to pitch in a tight situation.

 

Well Girardi does have an awful bullpen to work with he needs to learn how to minimize the damage.

 

 

 

 

Classic Penguino.

 

 

Girardi has an "awful bullpen to work with" but he needs to learn how to "minimize the damage".

 

:lol

 

 

While Girardi is learning how to do that tell him we also need a cure for cancer, and we also cant figure out what happens in the afterlife.

That 10th inning happened so fast that I dont think anyone could have warmed up in time.

How can you have such a lack of logic? Just because you have a job doesn't mean you're good at doing every aspect of that job.

 

That's the most incredibly disgusting and incorrect assumption possible in sports (or in life).

 

 

pot...kettle...black.

 

anyway, like i said for those with literacy troubles, i don't disagree with the abercrombie/reed thing, but had this team been a true playoff contender abercrombie would not even be on this roster. this is a team and everyone must be able to make routine plays...regardless of who you are. yes, girardi may have made a mistake putting him in, but it shouldn't have even been an issue.

 

if abercrombie makes the plays we aren't even discussing this...which is why you and anyone else who constantly second-guess managers are the biggest idiots on the face of the earth. if it works, cool...if it doesn't, it's an suddenly an issue. ridiculous.

It is pretty funny to me that the anti-Girardi faction on this board will start throwing Borowski under the bus now that it is conveinent. Do you forget how ugly it was back in April and May when we had no set closer and our bullpen was actually worse than it is now?

 

It is kind of hard to blame a man (Girardi) for a loss when his only two semi-reliable arms, Tankersley and Borowski, start blowing it in key games in September. What is the best solution? Go to arms that have proven to be less reliable? It is a matter of choosing the lesser of the evils.

 

But to put the blame totally on Borowski and Girardi is too much. Abercrombie might not have been able to catch the bloop into center, but he absolutely should have caught the flyball at the warning track with how deep he was positioned. Hanley should have made the play at second. Willingham should have caught the flyball that bounced off his glove. And then to cap it, Willingham, lets the ball get past him when he had a play at the plate.

 

This game was just a total meltdown. Plain and simple.

Also, if you are the manager and you know you have a terrible bullpen you need to try to cut your losses by always having someone ready to pitch in a tight situation.

 

Well Girardi does have an awful bullpen to work with he needs to learn how to minimize the damage.

 

 

 

 

Classic Penguino.

 

 

Girardi has an "awful bullpen to work with" but he needs to learn how to "minimize the damage".

 

:lol

 

 

While Girardi is learning how to do that tell him we also need a cure for cancer, and we also cant figure out what happens in the afterlife.

 

:lol

 

It's not that hard to do, friend. When your pitcher is getting hit hard you walk over to the phone and pick it up.

 

If you equate making a phone call to curing cancer then I have no idea how you function everyday.

 

whats the point of making the phone call if everyone down there has consistently blown games while the guy on the mound has been more than solid the entire season save the last two weeks?

 

i'd rather hold out hope borowski puts it back together than put in someone hopeless like messenger...or resop...or petit...

How can you have such a lack of logic? Just because you have a job doesn't mean you're good at doing every aspect of that job.

 

That's the most incredibly disgusting and incorrect assumption possible in sports (or in life).

 

 

pot...kettle...black.

 

anyway, like i said for those with literacy troubles, i don't disagree with the abercrombie/reed thing, but had this team been a true playoff contender abercrombie would not even be on this roster. this is a team and everyone must be able to make routine plays...regardless of who you are. yes, girardi may have made a mistake putting him in, but it shouldn't have even been an issue.

 

if abercrombie makes the plays we aren't even discussing this...which is why you and anyone else who constantly second-guess managers are the biggest idiots on the face of the earth. if it works, cool...if it doesn't, it's an suddenly an issue. ridiculous.

I've already criticize Beinfest for leaving Abercrombie on the roster but that doesn't mean Girardi shouldn't know better.

 

already said that...i wouldn't use abercrombie in any situation...so i agree with you on this somewhat...

 

but if youre never going to use him, why the hell is he here? it doesn't make any sense. beinfest/girardi must see something we don't because he IS still here...and he IS still playing.

 

 

 

It is pretty funny to me that the anti-Girardi faction on this board will start throwing Borowski under the bus now that it is conveinent. Do you forget how ugly it was back in April and May when we had no set closer and our bullpen was actually worse than it is now?

 

It is kind of hard to blame a man (Girardi) for a loss when his only two semi-reliable arms, Tankersley and Borowski, start blowing it in key games in September. What is the best solution? Go to arms that have proven to be less reliable? It is a matter of choosing the lesser of the evils.

 

But to put the blame totally on Borowski and Girardi is too much. Abercrombie might not have been able to catch the bloop into center, but he absolutely should have caught the flyball at the warning track with how deep he was positioned. Hanley should have made the play at second. Willingham should have caught the flyball that bounced off his glove. And then to cap it, Willingham, lets the ball get past him when he had a play at the plate.

 

This game was just a total meltdown. Plain and simple.

 

 

 

well said...

 

:thumbup

Also, if you are the manager and you know you have a terrible bullpen you need to try to cut your losses by always having someone ready to pitch in a tight situation.

 

Well Girardi does have an awful bullpen to work with he needs to learn how to minimize the damage.

 

 

 

 

Classic Penguino.

 

 

Girardi has an "awful bullpen to work with" but he needs to learn how to "minimize the damage".

 

:lol

 

 

While Girardi is learning how to do that tell him we also need a cure for cancer, and we also cant figure out what happens in the afterlife.

 

:lol

 

It's not that hard to do, friend. When your pitcher is getting hit hard you walk over to the phone and pick it up.

 

If you equate making a phone call to curing cancer then I have no idea how you function everyday.

 

 

 

 

My point is this........you want Girardi to learn the impossible.

 

 

You want him to learn how to polish a big, steaming pile of sh*t which is the Florida Marlins bullpen.

 

You want him to learn the impossible.

 

You want him to do the impossible.

Whenever you get over the ad hominem attacks and get to using some rational with a little bit of logic mixed in, we can chat about the tenth inning.

 

Until then I'll take a pass.

 

 

 

whenever you decide to take the anti-girardi blinders off and post something that is even somewhat rational, then we'll talk.

 

until then, go back to your bash-girardi clan and enjoy looking like the biggest bunch of idiots in the baseball world. rookie manager having a $15 million dollar group of rookies 3 games out of the wildcard on september 17th and you want him in chicago...

 

i find it funny how you (or any other girardi-basher) thinks and act as if they know more than the entire baseball world when it comes to girardi. as if you see something 99% of the baseball fans and "experts" don't. who do you think you're kidding?

 

it's not like i need to make you look bad because trust me, you do a damn good job of that yourself, but open up your eyes and see what we have here, because if he does leave to chicago like you seem to want him to, i guaran-fricken-tee you every single one of us will be sitting here next year regretting the move.

It is pretty funny to me that the anti-Girardi faction on this board will start throwing Borowski under the bus now that it is conveinent. Do you forget how ugly it was back in April and May when we had no set closer and our bullpen was actually worse than it is now?

 

It is kind of hard to blame a man (Girardi) for a loss when his only two semi-reliable arms, Tankersley and Borowski, start blowing it in key games in September. What is the best solution? Go to arms that have proven to be less reliable? It is a matter of choosing the lesser of the evils.

 

But to put the blame totally on Borowski and Girardi is too much. Abercrombie might not have been able to catch the bloop into center, but he absolutely should have caught the flyball at the warning track with how deep he was positioned. Hanley should have made the play at second. Willingham should have caught the flyball that bounced off his glove. And then to cap it, Willingham, lets the ball get past him when he had a play at the plate.

 

This game was just a total meltdown. Plain and simple.

 

I've been hating on Borowski all season long. The last few weeks just seals it. I think the improved bullpen also has something to do with the starting pitching performing better.

 

On top of that...major league players ADJUST over time.

 

Minimizing bullpen exposure, especially our bullpen, definitely has helped. But for a long stretch there Borowski brought some respectability to the bullpen by consistently locking down games. Now in September he and Tank just can't do the job. Like I said, it is a matter of choosing the lesser of evils.

Also, if you are the manager and you know you have a terrible bullpen you need to try to cut your losses by always having someone ready to pitch in a tight situation.

 

Well Girardi does have an awful bullpen to work with he needs to learn how to minimize the damage.

 

 

 

 

Classic Penguino.

 

 

Girardi has an "awful bullpen to work with" but he needs to learn how to "minimize the damage".

 

:lol

 

 

While Girardi is learning how to do that tell him we also need a cure for cancer, and we also cant figure out what happens in the afterlife.

 

:lol

 

It's not that hard to do, friend. When your pitcher is getting hit hard you walk over to the phone and pick it up.

 

If you equate making a phone call to curing cancer then I have no idea how you function everyday.

 

 

 

 

My point is this........you want Girardi to learn the impossible.

 

 

You want him to learn how to polish a big, steaming pile of sh*t which is the Florida Marlins bullpen.

 

You want him to learn the impossible.

 

You want him to do the impossible.

The point is, having other pitchers warming up when the guy you have in is getting lit up ISN'T A HARD CONCEPT TO UNDERSTAND. It isn't hard to do.

 

Borowski isn't a good pitcher. There are players on the roster who have the potential to do the same (if not better) in a closer's role but he ignores this consistently. We've seen Borowski's worst over the last few weeks. We know what it looks like. How can you not assume that Resop or someone else wouldn't contribute?

 

 

I don't know why you took on the task of being the resident Girardi apologist but some of the things you say are ridiculous.

 

Borowski earned his spot as the Marlins closer after others failed to get the job done. He was very consistent most of the season and now seems to have faltered at the end. Maybe it is time to give another person a chance, but it is probably too late for that.