I'd like to think that we have a good bullpen and I think most of us would agree but why does Fredi manage it so bad? ... I would think that in tight games you go to your go-to guys and teh guys you can trust because they have the stuff to get you out of jams. We have the capability to shut down a game after the 6th or 7th but we still manage to blow a couple or get blown out in situations when we are losing a tight game. How did Gardner come yesterday on a tied game is beyond me, or how did Obermueller come on a 4-2 (TB) game and allows 3 homers is beyound me, or Pinto in a 1-0 game, and so on and on ... there are so many instances were he mismanages the bullpen. I am sorry

 

:banghead

 

 

discuss ...

The only thing im really suprised about is putting garden boy in such a tight spot after he's been away from the majors so long. Pinto and Obie have been fairly good over all.

Didn't we go down this road with Girardi last season? I think that before any of us make judgement on Fredi and his use of the bullpen, we should ask ourselves "if the scoreboard were different, would we be complaining?" I think the answer that you will get will be no. I just don't want another year of hearing about poor bullpen mgmt. cost us games. Every teams bullpen is going to account for some losses. Its the nature of the beast.

I think Freddi's problem is that he waits around little too long before bringing in the better reliever. He has too much confidence in the rest of the guys.

 

In a tight game the only pitchers that should be used are: Tank, Benitez, Gregg, Lindstrom and Owens and maaaaaaaybe with a 3-4 run lead than use Pinto/Miller

i would have brought in lindstrom after tank got ejected. who was due up for us next inning? if the pitcher's spot was due up 2nd or 3rd or even 4th that may be the reason lindstrom wasn't brought in. if boone's spot was up 1st and then the pitcher 4th or something then no reasonable double switch would have been possible.

 

he probably wanted lindstrom to throw in the 7th if we had a lead, and perhaps that couldn't have happened if he had used him in the 6th.

Every time the fish win a game, everyone says that the legacy has started, when we lose, he should get fired. One game doesent tell everything. I still dont like him as a manager. Hes not tough enough. Hes only gotten 2 ejections so far this season.

Every time the fish win a game, everyone says that the legacy has started, when we lose, he should get fired. One game doesent tell everything. I still dont like him as a manager. Hes not tough enough. Hes only gotten 2 ejections so far this season.

And that weak sap, that example of passive disinterest, Lou Pinella, has only one ejection. John Boles disease.

Only thing I'm pissed off regarding the bullpen last night is the fact we didn't walk Trot Nixon to setup a double play with Mike Rouse on deck.

Well, Gardner should have done the job. I blame it on him.

I think Freddi's problem is that he waits around little too long before bringing in the better reliever. He has too much confidence in the rest of the guys.

 

In a tight game the only pitchers that should be used are: Tank, Benitez, Gregg, Lindstrom and Owens and maaaaaaaybe with a 3-4 run lead than use Pinto/Miller

Seems to me Tank should be relaced by Miller in your list. He now has appeared in 13 games only only had one bad outing. He is striking out about a batter an inning and they are hitting only 233 against him. There is even an arguement he should be used over Lindstrom and as we now Owens is once again on the DL.

The point is this. Kim was starting to get hit around. The Indians had runners on second and third with one out and 2 lefties coming up. Why wasn't Pinto or Tank brought in then??

The point is this. Kim was starting to get hit around. The Indians had runners on second and third with one out and 2 lefties coming up. Why wasn't Pinto or Tank brought in then??

 

 

Kim was wild all game but he was pretty effective. Really at that point it wasnt his fault he was doing poorly and he also made his pitches when he had to even in that situation. It was horrible fielding that did us in and being out of position. Boone at first was horrible in his fielding positon much of hte night, he didnt cover well at all either specially on that uggla misque. Hermida was playing far far too far back, as were the entire outfield. You would think they had barry bonds up much of the night. If you wanna jump at the coaching staff do so at the fielding ones and in those spots really.

 

But they did Bring in Tank to a face a lefty and he had him 0-2 and we were about to get out of the jam at that point when the ball got away from him. It wasnt even that fast of a pitch and it was a BS tossings by the ump all around.

Well, Gardner should have done the job. I blame it on him.

 

 

I blame it one the defense, that was a terrible example of major league play

Well, Gardner should have done the job. I blame it on him.

I think the defense was more at fault but Lee should have never been in there in the first place.

I was upset with Girardi for other reasons besides bullpen management, and I generally gave him a pass with the bullpen considering that it was absolutely horrendous last year. This year we are much improved, and I think Fredi is doing an ok job (not great, but no worse than Girardi with the bullpen). In fact, I think Fredi now has defined roles for everyone, which didn't exist at the beginning of the season. Tank has been so inconsistent this year, that Fredi has had to use him in mostly situational matchups. This is a far cry from what most envisioned, which is as a set-up guy (or even closer). I think, now that Benitez and Gregg have solidified the back of the bullpen, Fredi will start looking like a genius (which, of course, is much easier to do when your bullpen performs when called upon).

 

Situational lefty - Tank

Long lefty - Pinto

Situational righty - Lidstrom

Long righty - Miller; Gardner (until he gets sent down)

8th inning - Benitez; Owens (when he returns)

closer - Gregg

The point is this. Kim was starting to get hit around. The Indians had runners on second and third with one out and 2 lefties coming up. Why wasn't Pinto or Tank brought in then??

 

 

Kim was wild all game but he was pretty effective. Really at that point it wasnt his fault he was doing poorly and he also made his pitches when he had to even in that situation. It was horrible fielding that did us in and being out of position. Boone at first was horrible in his fielding positon much of hte night, he didnt cover well at all either specially on that uggla misque. Hermida was playing far far too far back, as were the entire outfield. You would think they had barry bonds up much of the night. If you wanna jump at the coaching staff do so at the fielding ones and in those spots really.

 

But they did Bring in Tank to a face a lefty and he had him 0-2 and we were about to get out of the jam at that point when the ball got away from him. It wasnt even that fast of a pitch and it was a BS tossings by the ump all around.

 

 

Yea I'm not gonna deny that the fielding was just horrendous. I would just think that at that point Kim was nearing 90 pitches and they had two lefties coming up. No excuse when you have 2 lefties in your pen.

The point is this. Kim was starting to get hit around. The Indians had runners on second and third with one out and 2 lefties coming up. Why wasn't Pinto or Tank brought in then??

 

 

Kim was wild all game but he was pretty effective. Really at that point it wasnt his fault he was doing poorly and he also made his pitches when he had to even in that situation. It was horrible fielding that did us in and being out of position. Boone at first was horrible in his fielding positon much of hte night, he didnt cover well at all either specially on that uggla misque. Hermida was playing far far too far back, as were the entire outfield. You would think they had barry bonds up much of the night. If you wanna jump at the coaching staff do so at the fielding ones and in those spots really.

 

But they did Bring in Tank to a face a lefty and he had him 0-2 and we were about to get out of the jam at that point when the ball got away from him. It wasnt even that fast of a pitch and it was a BS tossings by the ump all around.

 

 

Yea I'm not gonna deny that the fielding was just horrendous. I would just think that at that point Kim was nearing 90 pitches and they had two lefties coming up. No excuse when you have 2 lefties in your pen.

 

 

Agreed to a degree but they had the pitchers spot next (remember they did double switch in placements in the order when they filled in for boone and tank). So perhaps he didnt want to burn a lefty if he didnt have to as kim had shown the ability to get out of everything. I am not saying he is rght of course, I am just playing devil's advocate for you

The point is this. Kim was starting to get hit around. The Indians had runners on second and third with one out and 2 lefties coming up. Why wasn't Pinto or Tank brought in then??

 

 

Kim was wild all game but he was pretty effective. Really at that point it wasnt his fault he was doing poorly and he also made his pitches when he had to even in that situation. It was horrible fielding that did us in and being out of position. Boone at first was horrible in his fielding positon much of hte night, he didnt cover well at all either specially on that uggla misque. Hermida was playing far far too far back, as were the entire outfield. You would think they had barry bonds up much of the night. If you wanna jump at the coaching staff do so at the fielding ones and in those spots really.

 

But they did Bring in Tank to a face a lefty and he had him 0-2 and we were about to get out of the jam at that point when the ball got away from him. It wasnt even that fast of a pitch and it was a BS tossings by the ump all around.

 

 

Yea I'm not gonna deny that the fielding was just horrendous. I would just think that at that point Kim was nearing 90 pitches and they had two lefties coming up. No excuse when you have 2 lefties in your pen.

 

 

Agreed to a degree but they had the pitchers spot next (remember they did double switch in placements in the order when they filled in for boone and tank). So perhaps he didnt want to burn a lefty if he didnt have to as kim had shown the ability to get out of everything. I am not saying he is rght of course, I am just playing devil's advocate for you

 

get out of one jam before moving on to the next, there is no point of just waiting around to not burn the better reliever if the one taht you put completely blows up the game.

 

that was Jack's phylosophy and it worked: bring in your best reliever whenever you need to, then worry about the next inning. I am not saying to bring in your coser in the 6th or 7th but you are better off bringing in your set up guy to get you out of that jam

 

its not just yesteday it has happened a couple of times in the past

The point is this. Kim was starting to get hit around. The Indians had runners on second and third with one out and 2 lefties coming up. Why wasn't Pinto or Tank brought in then??

 

 

Kim was wild all game but he was pretty effective. Really at that point it wasnt his fault he was doing poorly and he also made his pitches when he had to even in that situation. It was horrible fielding that did us in and being out of position. Boone at first was horrible in his fielding positon much of hte night, he didnt cover well at all either specially on that uggla misque. Hermida was playing far far too far back, as were the entire outfield. You would think they had barry bonds up much of the night. If you wanna jump at the coaching staff do so at the fielding ones and in those spots really.

 

But they did Bring in Tank to a face a lefty and he had him 0-2 and we were about to get out of the jam at that point when the ball got away from him. It wasnt even that fast of a pitch and it was a BS tossings by the ump all around.

 

 

Yea I'm not gonna deny that the fielding was just horrendous. I would just think that at that point Kim was nearing 90 pitches and they had two lefties coming up. No excuse when you have 2 lefties in your pen.

 

 

Agreed to a degree but they had the pitchers spot next (remember they did double switch in placements in the order when they filled in for boone and tank). So perhaps he didnt want to burn a lefty if he didnt have to as kim had shown the ability to get out of everything. I am not saying he is rght of course, I am just playing devil's advocate for you

 

get out of one jam before moving on to the next, there is no point of just waiting around to not burn the better reliever if the one taht you put completely blows up the game.

 

that was Jack's phylosophy and it worked: bring in your best reliever whenever you need to, then worry about the next inning. I am not saying to bring in your coser in the 6th or 7th but you are better off bringing in your set up guy to get you out of that jam

 

its not just yesteday it has happened a couple of times in the past

Wasn't it Jack that would pinch run for Cabrera late in the game when he thought he could score the run? Well same thing - only this is the pitching side of it.

 

Let's say Tank comes in and allows a ground out to Nixon. 3-1 score, runner on third, Fish still up. And for the sake or argument, the inning ends and we're still up, whether the runner on third scores with two outs or not. You've only used Kim and Tank. Pinch hit for the pitcher and you've got a couple guys that can pitch the 7th. Benitez would pitch the 8th and Gregg the 9th.

 

I know hindsight is 20/20.....

The point is this. Kim was starting to get hit around. The Indians had runners on second and third with one out and 2 lefties coming up. Why wasn't Pinto or Tank brought in then??

 

 

Kim was wild all game but he was pretty effective. Really at that point it wasnt his fault he was doing poorly and he also made his pitches when he had to even in that situation. It was horrible fielding that did us in and being out of position. Boone at first was horrible in his fielding positon much of hte night, he didnt cover well at all either specially on that uggla misque. Hermida was playing far far too far back, as were the entire outfield. You would think they had barry bonds up much of the night. If you wanna jump at the coaching staff do so at the fielding ones and in those spots really.

 

But they did Bring in Tank to a face a lefty and he had him 0-2 and we were about to get out of the jam at that point when the ball got away from him. It wasnt even that fast of a pitch and it was a BS tossings by the ump all around.

 

 

Yea I'm not gonna deny that the fielding was just horrendous. I would just think that at that point Kim was nearing 90 pitches and they had two lefties coming up. No excuse when you have 2 lefties in your pen.

 

 

Agreed to a degree but they had the pitchers spot next (remember they did double switch in placements in the order when they filled in for boone and tank). So perhaps he didnt want to burn a lefty if he didnt have to as kim had shown the ability to get out of everything. I am not saying he is rght of course, I am just playing devil's advocate for you

 

get out of one jam before moving on to the next, there is no point of just waiting around to not burn the better reliever if the one taht you put completely blows up the game.

 

that was Jack's phylosophy and it worked: bring in your best reliever whenever you need to, then worry about the next inning. I am not saying to bring in your coser in the 6th or 7th but you are better off bringing in your set up guy to get you out of that jam

 

its not just yesteday it has happened a couple of times in the past

Wasn't it Jack that would pinch run for Cabrera late in the game when he thought he could score the run? Well same thing - only this is the pitching side of it.

 

Let's say Tank comes in and allows a ground out to Nixon. 3-1 score, runner on third, Fish still up. And for the sake or argument, the inning ends and we're still up, whether the runner on third scores with two outs or not. You've only used Kim and Tank. Pinch hit for the pitcher and you've got a couple guys that can pitch the 7th. Benitez would pitch the 8th and Gregg the 9th.

 

I know hindsight is 20/20.....

 

read the bold type

 

:thumbup