July 15, 200718 yr 2006 Pre All-Star Game .307 average .365 OBA Post All-Star Game .256 average .311 OBA 2007 .244 average .319OBA Runners on .218 Men on 2 out .076 Scoring Position .196 Count 0-2 .103 Count 1-2 .182 Count 2-2 .176 Count 3-2 .213 Is it fair to say that Dan Uggla is NOT the All-Star we saw last season? Is it fair to say his days as our # 2 batter are numbered? He is not a #2 hitter....he is a # 7 hitter, maybe # 6 on this team. As for his power? Well, when you sit between two of the best hitters in the game you get opportunities. I can make a case for three players to take over at # 2. Hermida - Last spring training that was the plan. He is a patient hiter that works the count. I'd love to see him between Hanley and Cabrera and see what he can do. Amezaga - I have not been a big fan but he is hittig. he makes contact. He has speed. Willingham - If you look at his numbers and the type of player he is...he would be a fantastic # 2 hitter.
July 15, 200718 yr I used to drive the "move Uggla and put Hermida in the 2 spot" bandwagon, but have recetly changed my stance. Uggla is a fastball, all or nothing type hitter. He needs the protection that a Cabrera provides more than a more skilled hitter such as Hermida or Willingham. If we moved Uggla down in the order and teams are no longer forced to give him fastballs, his struggles will be much more profound. The only other place I would consider moving him is to the 8 spot, where his all or nothing swing might work, ala seabass.
July 15, 200718 yr I was thinking the same thing today. Uggla has some power but does not make consistent contact enough to be a number 2 hitter. To me, the number 2 slot should be able to hit for decent average .275 or higher and is able to make contact consistently and put the ball in play.
July 15, 200718 yr I don't care about average, I don't care about homeruns, I don't really care about anything other than that all too perceivable yet subjective "quality at-bat." Quality at bats turn into walks. Quality at bats give baserunners (especially good ones) the chance to advance. Quality at bats wear down the pitcher, either for later in the game or for the guy coming up next. Hermida gives you more of those. And if "protection" is even in the discussion, you just need to look at today's game. Hanley gets intentionally walked to face Uggla, and all he sees are breaking balls pretty much the entire afternoon. Cabrera's presence doesn't magically give Uggla more fastballs, Cabrera's presence means they pitch to a strikeout prone .240 hitter with a diet of breaking stuff.
July 15, 200718 yr Author I do not mean to knock Uggla as a bad player. Our team has holes and we have a few before we need to discuss second base. But as someone here said that he needs protection...well if he is a .210 hitter w/o protection then he is not our long term second baseman. I like Dan Uggla and I think his pop at 2B gives us something extra many teams do not have. However, shockingly power is not our problem.
July 16, 200718 yr - 6/43 (0.140) in July - 18/103 (0.175) in the last 27 games but the most embarassing stat is...... 3/49 RISP w/2outs dear god.....what a CHOKER !!!
July 16, 200718 yr Yawn. He hit .230 with an .800 OPS last year with 2 out and RISP. 49 AB is like 10 games worth. It's a completely meaningless sample size.
July 16, 200718 yr Author El Penguino, I understand that when we are dealing with veterans. In Uggla's case we have all thrown stats on the board that show there is more reason(time) to believe he is a .240ave/.315OBA hitter than a .308ave/.360OBA hitter. I just think at this point the player that sits between two of the leagues best hitters should be more than someone that benefits from the protection.
July 16, 200718 yr uggla needs protection but he's just simply not a 2 hitter. although it seems like he's walked more in the last couple of days than he has all year, he's a slugger who belongs in the middle of the order. his production has been very very good but he has way too many at bats in which he fails to put the ball in play. if the lineup and offense overall get better who cares (besides daniel) if uggla's numbers go down a little bit not being in front of miggy. maybe 5th between jacobs and willingham would be an improvement. and hit alfredo 2nd. hanley alfredo miggy jake uggla hammer hermida TREANOR
July 16, 200718 yr uggla needs protection but he's just simply not a 2 hitter. although it seems like he's walked more in the last couple of days than he has all year, he's a slugger who belongs in the middle of the order. his production has been very very good but he has way too many at bats in which he fails to put the ball in play. if the lineup and offense overall get better who cares (besides daniel) if uggla's numbers go down a little bit not being in front of miggy. maybe 5th between jacobs and willingham would be an improvement. and hit alfredo 2nd. hanley alfredo miggy jake uggla hammer hermida TREANOR Hermida is a walks machine. Putting him second with Alfredo in the leadoff spot and Hanley third makes the most sense.
July 16, 200718 yr i still like hanley's ability at the leadoff spot hermida and alfredo right away isn't so great is there any chance at all fredi may ever try to change things up a bit with the order. this team has a very solid offense as it is but switching a few people around here and there could make it a well oiled machine. even as a hermida basher, i'm sure he'd have much greater success if he hit in front miguelito.
July 16, 200718 yr i still like hanley's ability at the leadoff spot Hanley will perform no matter where you put him.
July 16, 200718 yr but who will perform as the leadoff man if it is not hanley Amezaga. The lineup suffers if you drop Ramirez in the order and put Amezaga as leadoff...sure he has done pretty good but he is not half as good leading off as Hanley
July 16, 200718 yr There's a 6% difference in OBP between the two, looking at only their leadoff OBP. That means over a 100 AB period, Hanley will get on base 6 more times than Amezaga. Better? Yes, ofcoarse, expecially if you then turn that over to a ~500 AB season (30 more times on base through a season). But it's not ground breakingly better. Amezaga has a good %, nothing amazing but still a good % to lead off with, and that's the main thing to look at. Hanley is stealing bases at only a 75% clip. When leading off, it drops to 74%. Amezaga is at 73%. When leading off, he was at 90%, 9/10. Hanley averages a SB every 14.67 PA, when leading off it's 12.82. Amezaga averages a SB every 27.18 PA, BUT when leading off, he averaged one every 17.89 PA. So looking at stolen bases, is Hanley better? Yes. His SB per PA is the main thing, a difference of 5 when it comes to leading off (You're never gonna have many steal attempts batting 8th). But Amezaga can still swipe a bag. (SB per PA obviously isn't the best way of judging how often a player can steal, but I can't think of a better way given the stats infront of me) The only thing that Hanley completely OWNS Amezaga in when it comes to leading off is in doubles. Hanley has 15 doubles in the lead off spot, one every 14.54 PAs. Amezaga only had 6, one every 26.83 PAs. The ability to get into scoring position right off the bat is nice. But wouldn't it also be nice if, say, someone was on base infront of Hanley so that that double also scores a run? Hanley is >>>>> Amezaga when it comes to leading off, but Amezaga gets the job done.
July 16, 200718 yr Yawn. He hit .230 with an .800 OPS last year with 2 out and RISP. 49 AB is like 10 games worth. It's a completely meaningless sample size. Rotfl ! did you realize that he had 78 AB RISP w/2outs last year ?
July 16, 200718 yr Much of the need for a contact from the 2nd spot goes out the window when you consider that Hanley doesn't need help getting around the bases, with his bat or feet, but, yeah, Uggla's not a #2. He doesn't hit for average to push the leadoff runner across the bases (or home plate in the case of Hanley). He doesn't get on base to set up the heart of the order. His power is good, but not enough to merit getting the 2nd most ABs on the team.
July 16, 200718 yr but who will perform as the leadoff man if it is not hanley Amezaga. The lineup suffers if you drop Ramirez in the order and put Amezaga as leadoff...sure he has done pretty good but he is not half as good leading off as Hanley Hanley is a .300 hitter in both the first and third holes. If Amezaga stays hot, he's going to start drawing walks in the 8 hole. Why lead off with him, at least while he's hitting like this?
July 16, 200718 yr Yawn. He hit .230 with an .800 OPS last year with 2 out and RISP. 49 AB is like 10 games worth. It's a completely meaningless sample size. Rotfl ! did you realize that he had 78 AB RISP w/2outs last year ? Really, no wai lololzoolol Any time you judge a player based on an arbitrary, small sample size like "RISP w/ 2 outs" you are dealing with something that is pretty well meaningless. Neither one of those stats tells you anything about the hitter Ugglas is, and it's unfair to use them to criticize him.
July 16, 200718 yr but who will perform as the leadoff man if it is not hanley Amezaga. The lineup suffers if you drop Ramirez in the order and put Amezaga as leadoff...sure he has done pretty good but he is not half as good leading off as Hanley Hanley is a .300 hitter in both the first and third holes. If Amezaga stays hot, he's going to start drawing walks in the 8 hole. Why lead off with him, at least while he's hitting like this? miggy should get every chance possible to hit the ball in any game. Moving him out of the 3rd spot is counter productive to this specially if you are just getting a low slugging percentage amazaga at bats. Miguel Cabrera should never be moved away from the 3rd spot imo. Hit hanley 1st or 2nd and lead off with Hermida for all I care that is fine. But, hit Miguel 3rd.
July 16, 200718 yr but who will perform as the leadoff man if it is not hanley Amezaga. The lineup suffers if you drop Ramirez in the order and put Amezaga as leadoff...sure he has done pretty good but he is not half as good leading off as Hanley Hanley is a .300 hitter in both the first and third holes. If Amezaga stays hot, he's going to start drawing walks in the 8 hole. Why lead off with him, at least while he's hitting like this? miggy should get every chance possible to hit the ball in any game. Moving him out of the 3rd spot is counter productive to this specially if you are just getting a low slugging percentage amazaga at bats. Miguel Cabrera should never be moved away from the 3rd spot imo. Hit hanley 1st or 2nd and lead off with Hermida for all I care that is fine. But, hit Miguel 3rd. I agree with that, that's the thing I really hated about hitting Hanley third.. Peronsally I like Amezaga/Hermida > Hanley > Cabrera > rest, Hanley's OBP skills still gets him driven in by the guys behind, where as his power can drive in an OBP guy, best of both worlds, but doesn't really matter what we like in the end.
July 16, 200718 yr A team needs to look at whats best in particular situations. If you lead off with hanley, you don;t need a guy to just come behind him an walk. Hermida has a great eye and on many teams may be a useful #2. However he's been hitting sub .250 for most of the year, and if hanley gets on and steals second, all a walk does is set up a double play. Granted if the Boy hits a homerun you get two runs in, but hermida is not a speedster (evne though he isnt slow) either that is most likely going to score from first on a double. As of right now I would not be opposed to putting amezaga in that spot, b/c he can make contact to move hanley over to third if hes on second, but he also has a good enough eye to draw walks when needed. Furthermore, amezaga also can steal bases and has the speed to score on a double hit by cabrera or someone after him.
July 16, 200718 yr i'd prolly try a hanley fredo cabs jake hammer uggla herms olivo/treanor or flip hanram and fredo around see what happens. i just personally dont like hanley hitting before cabs much because it really filters his steal attempts. Doesn't attempt as often or cabs fouls off balls low and off the plate forcing hanley to go back to first. just my 2 cents. as for hermida in the 2 whole, i would like to see some consistency at the plate from him before putting him in there. he has shown signs of improvements with good hits as of late. but it could just be another one of his streaks... as for hermida not being "so speedy". heck... uggla isn't speedy himself. i'd take my chances with hermida swiping more bases then uggla and scoring from second on a single to the outfield.
July 16, 200718 yr i'd prolly try a hanley fredo cabs jake hammer uggla herms olivo/treanor or flip hanram and fredo around see what happens. i just personally dont like hanley hitting before cabs much because it really filters his steal attempts. Doesn't attempt as often or cabs fouls off balls low and off the plate forcing hanley to go back to first. just my 2 cents. I like that lineup
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