September 25, 200718 yr The article on FloridaMarlins.com says Kranitz was invited back, but declined as he wanted to pursue other opportunities. Then thanks for saving us from ourself Rick! You've got to be joking me right? Look at what they gave him to work with asshats. He was Baseball America's Coach of the Year last year for the entire league. $5,000 raise? Is that a joke? Why even offer a raise? He was already the lowest paid pitching coach in baseball. To offer a $5k raise is an insult. He's 2 years into the major league level and decides to explore his other options....What does that tell you about the Florida front office? Must not be a great group to work with if you ask me. Look for Kranitz to reuinte with Girardi wherever he ends up. I realize it was a trainwreck of a year but I don't blame him. We've got pitchers that prioritize partying and going out every night over pitching. That's the real problem. Loria and Beinfest are fools for letting this guy go. and he should have gotten a raise.... why?
September 25, 200718 yr The article on FloridaMarlins.com says Kranitz was invited back, but declined as he wanted to pursue other opportunities. Then thanks for saving us from ourself Rick! You've got to be joking me right? Look at what they gave him to work with asshats. He was Baseball America's Coach of the Year last year for the entire league. $5,000 raise? Is that a joke? Why even offer a raise? He was already the lowest paid pitching coach in baseball. To offer a $5k raise is an insult. He's 2 years into the major league level and decides to explore his other options....What does that tell you about the Florida front office? Must not be a great group to work with if you ask me. Look for Kranitz to reuinte with Girardi wherever he ends up. I realize it was a trainwreck of a year but I don't blame him. We've got pitchers that prioritize partying and going out every night over pitching. That's the real problem. Loria and Beinfest are fools for letting this guy go. and he should have gotten a raise.... why? I'm not definitely saying that a raise was due, but why even offer a guy $5,000. Thats not even a 5% raise from what he was making. What the hell's the point? Beinfest says, "Hey we think you did a good job with what we gave you to work with this year, we want you to come back next year, here's a $5,000 raise." Is $5,000 really going to make you stay if you're considering other options? My point is this; We're talking about a guy that has been in the bigs for only 2 seasons. These jobs don't just fall into your lap and it can be a struggle to find another one. For Kranitz to walk out on the team speaks volumes of the individuals he was working under. Beinfest and Loria are a joke.
September 25, 200718 yr Two guys have alcohol related run ins and suddenly partying is a priority for anyone who takes the mound for the Marlins? Interesting logic. 2 guys had run-ins with the law. There is a large handful of players on this team that are out drinking constantly. Just because they're not being arrested doesn't mean that they aren't out partying and showing up to the ballpark the next day tired and/or not feeling well. Being blind enough to not look past only media reports....nice logic.
September 25, 200718 yr that logic about drinking isnt entirely true. wasn't it david wells who threw his best game of his career when he had a hangover or was drunk. some people play better when they are not sober
September 25, 200718 yr Two guys have alcohol related run ins and suddenly partying is a priority for anyone who takes the mound for the Marlins? Interesting logic. 2 guys had run-ins with the law. There is a large handful of players on this team that are out drinking constantly. Just because they're not being arrested doesn't mean that they aren't out partying and showing up to the ballpark the next day tired and/or not feeling well. Being blind enough to not look past only media reports....nice logic. Not that I'm agreeing with you. I think you are exaggerating quite a bit. BUT I do think that alot more than the pitchers are spending a little unadvised time at the local watering holes. Seems like every time they have a great emotional game vs someone the next game they aren't into it at all and make tons of errors. Look no further back than last Thursday's win and then Friday's record breaking defense. On the road you can put in a curfew. At home is different. But they are kids and hence think they are indestructable.
September 25, 200718 yr that logic about drinking isnt entirely true. wasn't it david wells who threw his best game of his career when he had a hangover or was drunk. some people play better when they are not sober GG logic.... Some people drive better when they're drunk too right? Brain Surgeons sometimes operate better when they're drunk also. Give me a break. You're paying a guy $3-4 million a year and you want him showing up drunk. Get a grip.
September 25, 200718 yr floridamarlins.com The Marlins next year are once again expected to go with a young staff, and Beinfest says he is looking for a pitching coach who is good at teaching. "We feel that's very important with young players," Beinfest said. "In looking ahead to '08, and we're going to continue with a relatively young roster, I think you need a good teacher." Maybe someone who's had personal success as a big-league pitcher? Hence the Alex Fernandez comment earlier....Kevin Brown....Al Leiter....maybe sign Clemens as player/pitching coach... My options would be (in order) Wiley and then Rosey. I kinda like the Alex idea but I'm not so sure he would want the job. He seemed pretty happy doing what he is doing right now when I saw him Saturday evening. I did read someplace Admin saying something about promoting from with in. That would point to Rosey.
September 25, 200718 yr The article on FloridaMarlins.com says Kranitz was invited back, but declined as he wanted to pursue other opportunities. Then thanks for saving us from ourself Rick! You've got to be joking me right? Look at what they gave him to work with asshats. He was Baseball America's Coach of the Year last year for the entire league. $5,000 raise? Is that a joke? Why even offer a raise? He was already the lowest paid pitching coach in baseball. To offer a $5k raise is an insult. He's 2 years into the major league level and decides to explore his other options....What does that tell you about the Florida front office? Must not be a great group to work with if you ask me. Look for Kranitz to reuinte with Girardi wherever he ends up. I realize it was a trainwreck of a year but I don't blame him. We've got pitchers that prioritize partying and going out every night over pitching. That's the real problem. Loria and Beinfest are fools for letting this guy go. and he should have gotten a raise.... why? I'm not definitely saying that a raise was due, but why even offer a guy $5,000. Thats not even a 5% raise from what he was making. What the hell's the point? Beinfest says, "Hey we think you did a good job with what we gave you to work with this year, we want you to come back next year, here's a $5,000 raise." Is $5,000 really going to make you stay if you're considering other options? My point is this; We're talking about a guy that has been in the bigs for only 2 seasons. These jobs don't just fall into your lap and it can be a struggle to find another one. For Kranitz to walk out on the team speaks volumes of the individuals he was working under. Beinfest and Loria are a joke. How about a simple question, since sports is all about what have you done for me lately: What has Rick Kranitz done in 2007 that warrants KEEPING his job, forget the raise?
September 25, 200718 yr that logic about drinking isnt entirely true. wasn't it david wells who threw his best game of his career when he had a hangover or was drunk. some people play better when they are not sober GG logic.... Some people drive better when they're drunk too right? Brain Surgeons sometimes operate better when they're drunk also. Give me a break. You're paying a guy $3-4 million a year and you want him showing up drunk. Get a grip. not saying its the majority of people but i get my work done better when i am high and some people are just so use to being under the influence they cannot do things as effectively when they are sober. these cases do not effect this team so its more likely that theres nothing wrong with the team putting back a few beers after work which in there case is the game. the problem is if they start getting dui charges and into fights at bars because those reflect badly on the organization. i want the players showing up how they are going to preform best and in some cases that is not sober. if it affects there performance then the team has the right to step in but this season has been in the toilet since 4 of the possible 7 starting pitchers at the start of the season (7 inclues: johnson, olsen, willis, sanchez, mitre, garcia, nolasco, and if you want to include him rvh but he was not ready for the show this season) have been on the dl for the majority of the season. name one team that could compete for the playoffs when their 2 best pitchers from the previous year were on the disabled list for over 3 months.
September 25, 200718 yr If he doesn't deserve to keep his job then fire him but if he deserves to keep it then don't nickle and dime him. Even with the "raise" he would still be the lowest paid pitching coach in MLB. That's ridiculous.
September 25, 200718 yr that logic about drinking isnt entirely true. wasn't it david wells who threw his best game of his career when he had a hangover or was drunk. some people play better when they are not sober GG logic.... Some people drive better when they're drunk too right? Brain Surgeons sometimes operate better when they're drunk also. Give me a break. You're paying a guy $3-4 million a year and you want him showing up drunk. Get a grip. not saying its the majority of people but i get my work done better when i am high and some people are just so use to being under the influence they cannot do things as effectively when they are sober. these cases do not effect this team so its more likely that theres nothing wrong with the team putting back a few beers after work which in there case is the game. the problem is if they start getting dui charges and into fights at bars because those reflect badly on the organization. i want the players showing up how they are going to preform best and in some cases that is not sober. if it affects there performance then the team has the right to step in but this season has been in the toilet since 4 of the possible 7 starting pitchers at the start of the season (7 inclues: johnson, olsen, willis, sanchez, mitre, garcia, nolasco, and if you want to include him rvh but he was not ready for the show this season) have been on the dl for the majority of the season. name one team that could compete for the playoffs when their 2 best pitchers from the previous year were on the disabled list for over 3 months. I think you need some help.
September 25, 200718 yr If he doesn't deserve to keep his job then fire him but if he deserves to keep it then don't nickle and dime him. Even with the "raise" he would still be the lowest paid pitching coach in MLB. That's ridiculous. Good point. But this was the politically correct way to handle it. We aren't privy to the inner workings and this may very well have been an easy way for both sides to part company without raising a fuss like the Girardi firing. This was the last Girardi guy. I really wouldn't fall out of my chair if GI Joe accepts a job this off season and we see Kranitz added to his staff. Maybe something already in the works that hasn't been made public? It's more than just possible, it's highly likely, IMO.
September 25, 200718 yr floridamarlins.com The Marlins next year are once again expected to go with a young staff, and Beinfest says he is looking for a pitching coach who is good at teaching. "We feel that's very important with young players," Beinfest said. "In looking ahead to '08, and we're going to continue with a relatively young roster, I think you need a good teacher." Maybe someone who's had personal success as a big-league pitcher? Hence the Alex Fernandez comment earlier....Kevin Brown....Al Leiter....maybe sign Clemens as player/pitching coach... My options would be (in order) Wiley and then Rosey. I kinda like the Alex idea but I'm not so sure he would want the job. He seemed pretty happy doing what he is doing right now when I saw him Saturday evening. I did read someplace Admin saying something about promoting from with in. That would point to Rosey. And what exactly is he doing right now? I asked that earlier in the post, but all I got were responses about eating at all-you-can-eat buffets.
September 25, 200718 yr If he doesn't deserve to keep his job then fire him but if he deserves to keep it then don't nickle and dime him. Even with the "raise" he would still be the lowest paid pitching coach in MLB. That's ridiculous. Good point. But this was the politically correct way to handle it. We aren't privy to the inner workings and this may very well have been an easy way for both sides to part company without raising a fuss like the Girardi firing. This was the last Girardi guy. I really wouldn't fall out of my chair if GI Joe accepts a job this off season and we see Kranitz added to his staff. Maybe something already in the works that hasn't been made public? It's more than just possible, it's highly likely, IMO. You will see this within 2-3 weeks max. You will also see Mike Harkey and Bobby Meacham back in the mix with Girardi. It's unfortunate that this group was broken up last year when Girardi stood up to Loria. I think you'll see them do great things with another club. The only reason Kranitz stuck with the club this year was because Girardi knew he was going to take a year off. That's easy enough to see.
September 25, 200718 yr good call Spike on thinking it was Mitre who said that quote (which is now gone) anyway, I'm going to call Mrs Wiley (Mark's wife) Wednesday after class to see what's going on with him... I'll get that report to you then :disco I lied... called over there today There's considerable interest on both sides and the Marlins will try to get the Rockies to allow them to talk to Wiley before the season is done. Not sure if the Rockies grant this request though. If they don't that would obviously be tampering, but hopefully the Marlins will wait out the rest of the season/possibly playoff run before quickly hiring a new pitching coach. Wiley is the guy if it was up to me.
September 26, 200718 yr floridamarlins.com The Marlins next year are once again expected to go with a young staff, and Beinfest says he is looking for a pitching coach who is good at teaching. "We feel that's very important with young players," Beinfest said. "In looking ahead to '08, and we're going to continue with a relatively young roster, I think you need a good teacher." Maybe someone who's had personal success as a big-league pitcher? Hence the Alex Fernandez comment earlier....Kevin Brown....Al Leiter....maybe sign Clemens as player/pitching coach... How do they fit the description you highlighted? If anything, Beinfest is looking for someone very similar to Kranitz, a well respected and seasoned coach with a minor league and/or developmental background.
September 26, 200718 yr floridamarlins.com The Marlins next year are once again expected to go with a young staff, and Beinfest says he is looking for a pitching coach who is good at teaching. "We feel that's very important with young players," Beinfest said. "In looking ahead to '08, and we're going to continue with a relatively young roster, I think you need a good teacher." Maybe someone who's had personal success as a big-league pitcher? Hence the Alex Fernandez comment earlier....Kevin Brown....Al Leiter....maybe sign Clemens as player/pitching coach... How do they fit the description you highlighted? If anything, Beinfest is looking for someone very similar to Kranitz, a well respected and seasoned coach with a minor league and/or developmental background. I just know that during the past 20 years of my education, I learned the most from those "teachers" who had first-hand experience in the subject matter that they were trying to teach me. I can't say that it is the same for everyone, let alone young major league pitchers. However, if I was a young major league pitcher, I would prefer to be taught by someone who knows what it's like to stand in my shoes. If you were a 23-year-old member of the Marlins' rotation, who would you be more apt to listen to?: A)The 6 time All-Star with a 3.28 ERA over 19 ML seasons and a no-hitter on his resume (Brown) B)The 2 time All-Star with a 3.80 ERA over 19 ML seasons and a no-hitter on his resume (Leiter) C)The guy with the 3.74 ERA over 10 ML seasons (Fernandez) D)The guy with 49.0 major league IP and the 6.06 career ERA (Wiley) E)The guy who never made it out of AAA (Kranitz)
September 26, 200718 yr that logic about drinking isnt entirely true. wasn't it david wells who threw his best game of his career when he had a hangover or was drunk. some people play better when they are not sober GG logic.... Some people drive better when they're drunk too right? Brain Surgeons sometimes operate better when they're drunk also. Give me a break. You're paying a guy $3-4 million a year and you want him showing up drunk. Get a grip. not saying its the majority of people but i get my work done better when i am high I'd love to know what kind of work you do...
September 26, 200718 yr Kevin Brown will never come to Miami as a pitching coach. Have you counted the number of times he's KOed a Gatorade cooler over a bloop single? Imagine the reaction he'd have when an asshat in a nice suit tells him he need to handle his pitchers differently. He couldn't and wouldn't work with Beinfest or Loria.
September 26, 200718 yr floridamarlins.com The Marlins next year are once again expected to go with a young staff, and Beinfest says he is looking for a pitching coach who is good at teaching. "We feel that's very important with young players," Beinfest said. "In looking ahead to '08, and we're going to continue with a relatively young roster, I think you need a good teacher." Maybe someone who's had personal success as a big-league pitcher? Hence the Alex Fernandez comment earlier....Kevin Brown....Al Leiter....maybe sign Clemens as player/pitching coach... My options would be (in order) Wiley and then Rosey. I kinda like the Alex idea but I'm not so sure he would want the job. He seemed pretty happy doing what he is doing right now when I saw him Saturday evening. I did read someplace Admin saying something about promoting from with in. That would point to Rosey. And what exactly is he doing right now? I asked that earlier in the post, but all I got were responses about eating at all-you-can-eat buffets. The two sports stores for one thing. I would assume some autograph signings along the way. I really don't know what else he has on his plate. But he did a signing at the game on Saturday and had a son with him. It just seemed to me he was very content in the way his life is going right now. The way he was conversing with his son during that time made me believe his family comes before anything else and he seems to enjoy the time he is afforded with them. Just a feeling I got. The all you can eat buffets are out of place, IMO. A very childish response about a guy that gave us all he had and was a huge contributing factor in us going all the way in '97. He tried to come back, realized it wasn't to be, and rather quietly left the game on his terms. The guy always was a bit chunky at his playing weight and has added a few pounds since then. But because of being out of the game so long AND getting older I think he looks pretty fit. I would be willing to bet he could physically out perform any one of these posters with the childish remarks right now. Actually, I would pay to watch something like that.
September 26, 200718 yr If he doesn't deserve to keep his job then fire him but if he deserves to keep it then don't nickle and dime him. Even with the "raise" he would still be the lowest paid pitching coach in MLB. That's ridiculous. Good point. But this was the politically correct way to handle it. We aren't privy to the inner workings and this may very well have been an easy way for both sides to part company without raising a fuss like the Girardi firing. This was the last Girardi guy. I really wouldn't fall out of my chair if GI Joe accepts a job this off season and we see Kranitz added to his staff. Maybe something already in the works that hasn't been made public? It's more than just possible, it's highly likely, IMO. You will see this within 2-3 weeks max. You will also see Mike Harkey and Bobby Meacham back in the mix with Girardi. It's unfortunate that this group was broken up last year when Girardi stood up to Loria. I think you'll see them do great things with another club. The only reason Kranitz stuck with the club this year was because Girardi knew he was going to take a year off. That's easy enough to see. Agree. Not so much with the time frame or the "great things with another club" thought, but... What's amazing to me is that either others don't see it or they are just taking the opportunity to do some more FO bashing when actually I think it was done with both sides' eyes wide open and pretty quietly, hence the PC correct way of doing it remark I made.
September 26, 200718 yr floridamarlins.com The Marlins next year are once again expected to go with a young staff, and Beinfest says he is looking for a pitching coach who is good at teaching. "We feel that's very important with young players," Beinfest said. "In looking ahead to '08, and we're going to continue with a relatively young roster, I think you need a good teacher." Maybe someone who's had personal success as a big-league pitcher? Hence the Alex Fernandez comment earlier....Kevin Brown....Al Leiter....maybe sign Clemens as player/pitching coach... How do they fit the description you highlighted? If anything, Beinfest is looking for someone very similar to Kranitz, a well respected and seasoned coach with a minor league and/or developmental background. I just know that during the past 20 years of my education, I learned the most from those "teachers" who had first-hand experience in the subject matter that they were trying to teach me. I can't say that it is the same for everyone, let alone young major league pitchers. However, if I was a young major league pitcher, I would prefer to be taught by someone who knows what it's like to stand in my shoes. If you were a 23-year-old member of the Marlins' rotation, who would you be more apt to listen to?: A)The 6 time All-Star with a 3.28 ERA over 19 ML seasons and a no-hitter on his resume (Brown) B)The 2 time All-Star with a 3.80 ERA over 19 ML seasons and a no-hitter on his resume (Leiter) C)The guy with the 3.74 ERA over 10 ML seasons (Fernandez) D)The guy with 49.0 major league IP and the 6.06 career ERA (Wiley) E)The guy who never made it out of AAA (Kranitz) You really understate Wiley's accomplishments. And his qualifications. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but here's my breakdown of it. Brown will never come here. And thank goodness. We would never meet his contract demands and he has absolutely NO history of teaching. Kevin was always for Kevin and I sincerely doubt that has changed. I doubt Al would want to teach either. I think he is happy with the family time and a little broadcasting. Plus I think he has an eye on politics. Kranitz will be coaching with GI Joe in the very near future and it is apparent to me that was the game plan all along. I have no idea why you left Rosey out of the equation, but to me he is really the only other viable option for the team and most likely is their second choice.
September 26, 200718 yr I just know that during the past 20 years of my education, I learned the most from those "teachers" who had first-hand experience in the subject matter that they were trying to teach me. I can't say that it is the same for everyone, let alone young major league pitchers. However, if I was a young major league pitcher, I would prefer to be taught by someone who knows what it's like to stand in my shoes. If you were a 23-year-old member of the Marlins' rotation, who would you be more apt to listen to?: A)The 6 time All-Star with a 3.28 ERA over 19 ML seasons and a no-hitter on his resume (Brown) B)The 2 time All-Star with a 3.80 ERA over 19 ML seasons and a no-hitter on his resume (Leiter) C)The guy with the 3.74 ERA over 10 ML seasons (Fernandez) D)The guy with 49.0 major league IP and the 6.06 career ERA (Wiley) E)The guy who never made it out of AAA (Kranitz) You really understate Wiley's accomplishments. And his qualifications. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but here's my breakdown of it. Brown will never come here. And thank goodness. We would never meet his contract demands and he has absolutely NO history of teaching. Kevin was always for Kevin and I sincerely doubt that has changed. I doubt Al would want to teach either. I think he is happy with the family time and a little broadcasting. Plus I think he has an eye on politics. Kranitz will be coaching with GI Joe in the very near future and it is apparent to me that was the game plan all along. I have no idea why you left Rosey out of the equation, but to me he is really the only other viable option for the team and most likely is their second choice. My bad... F)The guy with 75.0 major league IP over 2 seasons and sports the career 5.40 ERA (Rosenthal) I never said Wiley wasn't qualified, just that he wasn't as successful at the major league level as some of the other names on that list. As far as his major league accomplishments, which is what I was showing, please let me know how I am underestimating him. Did I leave out his Cy Young Award or an All-Star appearance? The only reason that I came up with those three names (Brown, Leiter, Fernandez) is because they all had success while with the Marlins. I'm not saying that they are the only three former pitchers that could, or even would want this job. I'm simply giving my opinion that I think younger pitchers would be more apt to listen to someone who had success in the major leagues.
September 26, 200718 yr Ted Williams was one of the greatest hitters of all-time and he was considered a terrible hitting coach and manager. Look at Murray this year, one of the very best of the 80s and he was canned by the Dodgers. Just because someone was good at what they did doesn't mean they can teach what they did.
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