Marlins' money deal no surprise

Dave Hyde | Sports Columnist December 5, 2007

Here's the worst part: I can't even work up a good anger anymore. I can't type venom, or talk nasty or muster even an ounce of ugliness other than to ask in a weary tone: When does this ever end with the Marlins?

 

Will they ever act like a major league franchise again?

 

Can they ever look like an ownership group that cares about winning and isn't simply intent on stuffing money under their cap like the past two years?

 

Losing Miguel Cabrera, Dontrelle Willis or both was expected this offseason. But losing both in the same trade to Detroit should be the kind of thunderclap that brings out titles like "Black Tuesday" or "The Day Baseball Died."

 

Go ahead, play the drama card if you want. It's played so well and so often in the past the card is soiled by now. Everyone around the Marlins has been here before, no doubt will be again, and owners Jeffrey Loria and David Samson will keep crying baseball poverty made them do it all the way to the bank.

 

You can debate the trade of Cabrera and Willis, if you know any of the names they got back. I don't. But it's a safe bet, judging by General Manager Admin Beinfest's past deals, that he got some good prospects who in a year or two will be producing so well for the Marlins they'll be rumored in trades.

 

Look at Detroit now, too. Gary Sheffield. Pudge Rodriguez. Jim Leyland. Dave Dombrowski. Al Avila. Cabrera. Willis.

 

They have more Marlins you want to watch than the Marlins.

 

They have a bigger slice of this franchise's championship history than this franchise does.

 

You know how many Marlins players have a title ring from 2003? Zero. Cabrera and Willis were the last out the door. So they're all gone now, all the champs from four years ago. See ya. Even given the transitory world of pro sports, that's no way to create a bond with fans.

 

Of course, the Marlins don't give a fig what fans think. They know the one advantage in this disadvantaged market: Attendance won't be affected by even this mega-trade. What, fewer Marlins fans will show up next year because of this trade? What's fewer than the fewest?

 

The Marlins finished last in attendance in the majors in 2007 with Cabrera and Willis. Think they can finish last again without their combined salaries of more than $20 million next year?

 

Let's say this, too: These Marlins needed a change. They were last in fielding and struck out more than every team except Tampa Bay last season. That wasn't a surprise, either. In 2006, they led the league in striking out and were the third-worst fielding team.

 

But if this were about improving it would be one issue. This is about money, only money, though not in the way you think. The Marlins could afford Cabrera and Willis with no problem. Of course they could, no matter what the perception is.

 

This has been said before but needs to be shouted on days like today. This franchise makes bundles of money. It turns a wonderful profit. Take out the calculator and add up what they got last year:

 

$30 million. That's in revenue sharing.

 

$12 million. That's an estimated local TV deal, according to a source.

 

$18 million. That's from the national TV deal.

 

That's $60 million right there. That's before they sell a ticket, sign up a corporation or cash one of the increasingly lucrative checks from the merchandising arm of Major League Baseball. That's against a $32 million payroll last year that could dwindle to about half that this year.

 

Oh, right. There's the cost of running a minor league system. Please. If Loria and Samson wanted to take that saved $20 million this season and put it toward the new stadium fund, fine. Who wouldn't be for it if they followed through with that idea?

 

You'll see that about the time you hear Cabrera and Willis are upset about this trade. They'll love moving on, the way most ex-Marlins do. They'll get long-term, big-money deals. They go to a team that wants to win.

 

It makes you a bit wistful for how it all started, in the magic of 2003, when first Willis and then Cabrera were called up to join that carpet ride.

 

They got called up to the majors again Tuesday. Detroit wants to win. The Marlins want to make money. And, if you can still get angry, good for you. I can only shake my head and wonder when the Marlins will act like a big-league team again.

 

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/basebal...,2222915.column

I love how with small market teams, being a "real mlb franchise" either means overpaying for sh*tty veterans (ala the Pirates and Royals) or letting your young studs walk and getting nothing for them.

>.< :banghead

This is a great article.

blah. I'm more interested in seeing Lebatard's article. Never thought I would switch from being a Sun-Sentinel guy to a Herald reader...but crap like this put me over the top.

Let's give Marlins benefit of doubt

Posted on Tue, Dec. 04, 2007

By DAN LE BATARD

dlebatard@MiamiHerald.com

 

It isn't easy to listen to reason when you are hurt and angry and betrayed. You just want to yell, cry, vent, blame. The fun of fandom is to be emotional, not clinical. Surgeons don't paint their faces team colors while operating, lawyers don't boo and heckle the judges and nobody calls the 24-hour accounting radio station to scream about CPAs being lazy and overpaid.

 

So what happened Tuesday, when the cheap and depressing Marlins sent their two most popular players to Detroit, would and should be upsetting to Marlins fans if, um, there were any Marlins fans. Because nobody who has been betrayed so often wants to hear today about trust and faith. But, believe it or not, hard as it is given all the losing and cynicism on our sports landscape, this Marlins management team deserves both your belief and benefit of the doubt. It has been earned -- and not just because the Marlins have won as many championships in the past decade as the Red Sox have in the past eight.

 

Nobody wants to see Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis leave. The former is a future Hall of Famer, and the latter has one of the greatest personalities anywhere in sports. They were a joy to watch even though for one game last season, only 375 fans showed up to experience that kind of joy. That's fewer people than you'll find in some airplanes and restaurants, and it is part of the reality that makes us a minor-league baseball town that deserves a minor-league product.

 

But the economics of the sport and the lack of a stadium force the Marlins to make what they can out of coupons and discounts. While the Yankees and Red Sox try on Armani and Gucci at Bal Harbour, snacking on caviar hand-fed by a team of rotating servants, the hungry-hobo Marlins haggle at flea markets and garage sales. But, too often to be luck, they'll rummage through one of the 99-cent bargain bins and (viola!) happily discover a barely-used Hanley Ramirez.

 

UNAFFORDABLE

 

The Marlins can't afford to pay Cabrera $20 million a year, which is what he'll be making very soon. So they traded him at the optimum time given their limitations, pitting desperate contenders against each other, and got two of the top 20 prospects anywhere in the sport. The Marlins traded their two most popular and most expensive players for Detroit's two best young and cheap ones -- and got four other maybes in return. You can make the argument that they traded Cabrera and Willis for Detroit's farm system -- Florida's today in exchange for Detroit's tomorrow.

 

That's a great deal if you start, as you must, with the premise that Florida won't and can't afford Cabrera and Willis. Florida is the National League's Oakland A's, a team that had to painfully let Jason Giambi and Miguel Tejada go but remained in the playoffs with the cheap and good help they got in return. A public-relations disaster for Florida? Absolutely. But is there a public with which this team has relations? What's the worst case? You upset 375 people?

 

And remember this, too: Wasn't but four years ago that we had no earthly idea who Cabrera and Willis were. In fact, the two best prospects the Marlines just got -- Cameron Maybin and Andrew Miller -- are considered more can't-miss great than either Cabrera or Willis ever were.

 

Last time Florida did this? They traded Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell, which stung, to get Ramirez, who was only better offensively this season than NL MVP Jimmy Rollins. Ramirez is the league's best young player, at any position -- and getting better. And although it hurts to watch Beckett and Lowell celebrate a championship elsewhere, general manager Admin Beinfest got someone in return who is as good as anyone playing the game -- and cheaper. That's how Beinfest has to play this game, in handcuffs, and it is what makes him the best executive anywhere in South Florida sports.

 

SAD AND HAPPY

 

Maybin and Miller are going to be stars soon and, better still, cheap for years. And it is amazing that Beinfest was able to get both of them. The Yankees and Red Sox are unwilling to give away their two best prospects for Johan Santana, who has only been the game's most dominant pitcher. Willis, lovable as he is, was one of the worst starting pitchers anywhere in baseball last season and, given the cruel mathematics of mileage and his mechanics, he's a high risk for an arm injury. But desperate Detroit feels like it is only a piece away and has to keep up with the Yankees and Red Sox.

 

And so the Tigers roster is filled with expensive players who remind you, more than any team in baseball, of all the good work the Marlins have done while stripping their roster and building it back up with an unusual blueprint that makes fans angry. Never mind Lowell and Beckett winning in Boston. The Tigers are now the Detroit Marlins with Pudge Rodriguez, Edgar Renteria, Gary Sheffield, Todd Jones, Jim Leyland, Dave Dombrowski, Cabrera and Willis. That should make Marlins fans, all 375 of you, sad and happy. The bad news is that you can't afford the talent you keep finding, but the good news is that you are exceptional at finding said talent.

 

It hurts, yes.

 

But growth usually does.

I love how with small market teams, being a "real mlb franchise" either means overpaying for sh*tty veterans (ala the Pirates and Royals) or letting your young studs walk and getting nothing for them.

No it means signing your studs long term before they get to arbritration

Let's give Marlins benefit of doubt

Posted on Tue, Dec. 04, 2007

By DAN LE BATARD

dlebatard@MiamiHerald.com

 

It isn't easy to listen to reason when you are hurt and angry and betrayed. You just want to yell, cry, vent, blame. The fun of fandom is to be emotional, not clinical. Surgeons don't paint their faces team colors while operating, lawyers don't boo and heckle the judges and nobody calls the 24-hour accounting radio station to scream about CPAs being lazy and overpaid.

 

So what happened Tuesday, when the cheap and depressing Marlins sent their two most popular players to Detroit, would and should be upsetting to Marlins fans if, um, there were any Marlins fans. Because nobody who has been betrayed so often wants to hear today about trust and faith. But, believe it or not, hard as it is given all the losing and cynicism on our sports landscape, this Marlins management team deserves both your belief and benefit of the doubt. It has been earned -- and not just because the Marlins have won as many championships in the past decade as the Red Sox have in the past eight.

 

Nobody wants to see Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis leave. The former is a future Hall of Famer, and the latter has one of the greatest personalities anywhere in sports. They were a joy to watch even though for one game last season, only 375 fans showed up to experience that kind of joy. That's fewer people than you'll find in some airplanes and restaurants, and it is part of the reality that makes us a minor-league baseball town that deserves a minor-league product.

 

But the economics of the sport and the lack of a stadium force the Marlins to make what they can out of coupons and discounts. While the Yankees and Red Sox try on Armani and Gucci at Bal Harbour, snacking on caviar hand-fed by a team of rotating servants, the hungry-hobo Marlins haggle at flea markets and garage sales. But, too often to be luck, they'll rummage through one of the 99-cent bargain bins and (viola!) happily discover a barely-used Hanley Ramirez.

 

UNAFFORDABLE

 

The Marlins can't afford to pay Cabrera $20 million a year, which is what he'll be making very soon. So they traded him at the optimum time given their limitations, pitting desperate contenders against each other, and got two of the top 20 prospects anywhere in the sport. The Marlins traded their two most popular and most expensive players for Detroit's two best young and cheap ones -- and got four other maybes in return. You can make the argument that they traded Cabrera and Willis for Detroit's farm system -- Florida's today in exchange for Detroit's tomorrow.

 

That's a great deal if you start, as you must, with the premise that Florida won't and can't afford Cabrera and Willis. Florida is the National League's Oakland A's, a team that had to painfully let Jason Giambi and Miguel Tejada go but remained in the playoffs with the cheap and good help they got in return. A public-relations disaster for Florida? Absolutely. But is there a public with which this team has relations? What's the worst case? You upset 375 people?

 

And remember this, too: Wasn't but four years ago that we had no earthly idea who Cabrera and Willis were. In fact, the two best prospects the Marlines just got -- Cameron Maybin and Andrew Miller -- are considered more can't-miss great than either Cabrera or Willis ever were.

 

Last time Florida did this? They traded Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell, which stung, to get Ramirez, who was only better offensively this season than NL MVP Jimmy Rollins. Ramirez is the league's best young player, at any position -- and getting better. And although it hurts to watch Beckett and Lowell celebrate a championship elsewhere, general manager Admin Beinfest got someone in return who is as good as anyone playing the game -- and cheaper. That's how Beinfest has to play this game, in handcuffs, and it is what makes him the best executive anywhere in South Florida sports.

 

SAD AND HAPPY

 

Maybin and Miller are going to be stars soon and, better still, cheap for years. And it is amazing that Beinfest was able to get both of them. The Yankees and Red Sox are unwilling to give away their two best prospects for Johan Santana, who has only been the game's most dominant pitcher. Willis, lovable as he is, was one of the worst starting pitchers anywhere in baseball last season and, given the cruel mathematics of mileage and his mechanics, he's a high risk for an arm injury. But desperate Detroit feels like it is only a piece away and has to keep up with the Yankees and Red Sox.

 

And so the Tigers roster is filled with expensive players who remind you, more than any team in baseball, of all the good work the Marlins have done while stripping their roster and building it back up with an unusual blueprint that makes fans angry. Never mind Lowell and Beckett winning in Boston. The Tigers are now the Detroit Marlins with Pudge Rodriguez, Edgar Renteria, Gary Sheffield, Todd Jones, Jim Leyland, Dave Dombrowski, Cabrera and Willis. That should make Marlins fans, all 375 of you, sad and happy. The bad news is that you can't afford the talent you keep finding, but the good news is that you are exceptional at finding said talent.

 

It hurts, yes.

 

But growth usually does.

 

 

Sig'ed.

blah. I'm more interested in seeing Lebatard's article. Never thought I would switch from being a Sun-Sentinel guy to a Herald reader...but crap like this put me over the top.

 

I'm on pins and needles waiting for Berardino's take.

 

Re: LeBatard's article. There's a difference, in my mind, between giving management (i.e. Hill/Beinfest) the benefit of the doubt and giving ownership (i.e. Loria/Samson) the benefit of the doubt. I'm willing, most of the time, to give it to the former, but not the latter.

Typical Lebatard column sprinkled with lies to support his point of view.

I love how with small market teams, being a "real mlb franchise" either means overpaying for sh*tty veterans (ala the Pirates and Royals) or letting your young studs walk and getting nothing for them.

No it means signing your studs long term before they get to arbritration

 

 

Which gets us a year, maybe two if you're lucky, of them more than we normally would.

 

Not really that big of a difference.

 

Signing long term means signing them once they're no longer club controlled.

While I do like the players we got in return I despise the argument that because it's worked in the past it will work again.

Typical Lebatard column sprinkled with lies to support his point of view.

 

Name 5 lies in that article?

I love how with small market teams, being a "real mlb franchise" either means overpaying for sh*tty veterans (ala the Pirates and Royals) or letting your young studs walk and getting nothing for them.

 

Amen. And you don't have to be a small market team to overpay for sh*tty veterans. This is precisely why I became a Marlins fan: I was fascinated at how adept this organization was at accumulating great young talent on a meager budget. IMO, watching a young talented team develop, even if it isn't always pretty, is far preferable to watching a team of complacent, overpayed veterans.

Typical Lebatard column sprinkled with lies to support his point of view.

 

Name 5 lies in that article?

He implies the current management was responsible for the '97 WS and he says that Maybin and Miller are more "can't miss great" than Cabrera was. That two lies.

Typical Lebatard column sprinkled with lies to support his point of view.

 

Name 5 lies in that article?

He implies the current management was responsible for the '97 WS and he says that Maybin and Miller are more "can't miss great" than Cabrera was. That two lies.

 

Maybe it's a reading comprehension issue on my part, but I'm not seeing where he implies that.

Typical Lebatard column sprinkled with lies to support his point of view.

 

Name 5 lies in that article?

He implies the current management was responsible for the '97 WS and he says that Maybin and Miller are more "can't miss great" than Cabrera was. That two lies.

 

Maybe it's a reading comprehension issue on my part, but I'm not seeing where he implies that.

 

LeBatard:

this Marlins management team deserves both your belief and benefit of the doubt. It has been earned -- and not just because the Marlins have won as many championships in the past decade as the Red Sox have in the past eight.

Typical Lebatard column sprinkled with lies to support his point of view.

 

Name 5 lies in that article?

He implies the current management was responsible for the '97 WS and he says that Maybin and Miller are more "can't miss great" than Cabrera was. That two lies.

 

Maybe it's a reading comprehension issue on my part, but I'm not seeing where he implies that.

 

LeBatard:

this Marlins management team deserves both your belief and benefit of the doubt. It has been earned -- and not just because the Marlins have won as many championships in the past decade as the Red Sox have in the past eight.

 

So you pulled the "lies" thing out of your ass, like you always do. That act is getting real old, man.

Typical Lebatard column sprinkled with lies to support his point of view.

 

Name 5 lies in that article?

He implies the current management was responsible for the '97 WS and he says that Maybin and Miller are more "can't miss great" than Cabrera was. That two lies.

 

Maybe it's a reading comprehension issue on my part, but I'm not seeing where he implies that.

 

LeBatard:

this Marlins management team deserves both your belief and benefit of the doubt. It has been earned -- and not just because the Marlins have won as many championships in the past decade as the Red Sox have in the past eight.

 

So you pulled the "lies" thing out of your ass, like you always do. That act is getting real old, man.

 

:lol :lol :thumbup

I see valid points to both articles. I think LeBatard makes a good point that the management does deserve the benefit of the doubt with what they have done in the past but Hyde also makes some valid points in terms of commitment to a team and fanbase.

So you pulled the "lies" thing out of your ass, like you always do. That act is getting real old, man.

Bob, the lies are there. If you are too stupid to see them I really can't help you.

Hey why doesn't Loria call MLB and the city of Miami and say heck i will pledge the 20 mil i am going to save toward the Stadium O ya right i have to pay that Yale donation i made with it dammit Wonder what i could get for Hanley and Anibal Hmm. CLOWN do you know the check thos out

 

Yale Endowment 2006

 

18 Billion and avrg 22 pct in 2006 wtf Loria you think they need it cheap bastard

So you pulled the "lies" thing out of your ass, like you always do. That act is getting real old, man.

Bob, the lies are there. If you are too stupid to see them I really can't help you.

 

2 =/= 5

I love how with small market teams, being a "real mlb franchise" either means overpaying for sh*tty veterans (ala the Pirates and Royals) or letting your young studs walk and getting nothing for them.

The Marlins don't qualify as a small market team. Small market teams at least maintain a $50ish million dollar payroll.

And Miami is not a small market. It's a underperforming market with a financially-flawed franchise. There's a way to fix that. Unfortunetly for us, Cabrera and Willis we've got to keep playing games until it happens. Beinfest has been successful in building quality teams using his own system, not the Royals' or Athletics'. Honestly, even if he was operating with one of those two models or the Yankees', we'd still wish for more.